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Thread: Semi O/T- Nazareth Speedway today

  1. #61
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    Sad to see. Nazareth gave us some great shows.

  2. #62
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    I've been somewhat disconnected from this forum over the past few years due to being extremely busy with work and family, but even I'm gonna come out of the woodwork to express my disappointment with this. I haven't been to Nazareth since the last IRL races and these pics really look alien compared to my memories of the place which still seem fresh.

    I still have this webpage of Nazareth history which I made almost a decade ago:
    http://motorcaster.com/nazareth/naza...y-history.html

    And it's crazy how some of these new pictures compare:

    1971 abandoned:


    2010 abandoned:


    2001 T2 near the backstraight:


    2010 almost the same place:



    Great memories like the 1993 race which was essentially all green flag, and Nigel Mansell won the CART championship while still technically also the reigning F1 champ:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_bgXHDLQUA


    And the peak attendance in 1997:


    And also the 7G meetup at the 2000 race held the day before Indy:
    (that's Bruce/forerunner on the far left.. I'm right next to him)



    But as immaculate as this track was kept, the main problem was that it was TOO NARROW with too much turning to allow anyone to get a run for passing. Ideally this track would have kept it's original 1966 footprint of 1.125 miles along with the super-width it had during the dirt era you see in those old videos.

    I truly think that Tony George should have bought this track from Roger and built it up to keep an ongoing Indy car presence here in the Philly/New York area. Maybe the Hulmans/IMS still can? It's unlikely that there are going to be any real-estate developers for years to come who can build anything anywhere.

  3. #63
    I loved going to Naz. It was run really well under Penske. Clean and reasonably priced. I got a lot of Watkins Glen road racing fans to enjoy ovals.

    Indycars and Modifieds were my favorite.

  4. #64
    Saw Jim Clark Win Indy! STAND E's Avatar
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  5. #65
    Wow, it's cool to see other people who actually still care about the speedway! This is kind of my home track, and a few months ago I finally drove up to it to see what I could see, which was pretty much just the spot at the exit of turn 2. I was quite saddened, because I really did love that track. It was different from the boring "cookie-cutter" tracks that NASCAR seems to be moving the entire series to.

    I've been researching everything I can about the speedway, and ISC contract stipulations, etc, etc. I'll ask you all on here, do you guys think that (with the right investors) it would even be possible to re-open the speedway? I believe that if you were able to get enough interest shown, someone might be interested in re-opening, although it would be costly project since even the grandstands and garage buildings are all gone. However, you could probably get ARCA, ASA, USAR, USAC, and late models series to race there. I'm going to continue investigating, but I want all your opinions: Do you think it's possible?

    And I agree with the majority though: ISC Sucks .... I am growing weary of seeing ISC shut down good race tracks to send more dates to their bigger tracks. And I am so glad to see "Save The Speedway" making progress with North Wilkesboro. Thanks all!

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  6. #66
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    The people in the absolute best position to make this happen would be the Hulman clan. Only they alone could sit down with the Frances and say...

    "Look, every year you come to our Speedway and make a f**kload of money with the BY400... we want to buy Nazareth Speedway so that we can keep our own tightly controlled presence in the Philly/NY market... so tear up those restrictions and lets do a deal"

    And the folks in the Nazareth PA Council also need to be aware that there are NOT going to be any commercial real estate developers who are going to be able to do anything, anywhere for years to come.

    One more thing... about a decade ago, an oldtimer at Nazareth told me that he had seen the original (1966) layout and that T2 was almost all the way out to the RT 248 side. Here's a photoshop-recreation I had made up around that time:



    The Hulmans need to buy the track from the Frances, and repave it after convincing the town to let the track go back to the 1966 footprint... and widen it from the current ~55' feet to about 70' wide. Now THAT would be a great 1+ mile Philly/NY track designed specifically for OW.

  7. #67
    Is Bat Boy KevMcNJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbeitzel View Post
    I'll ask you all on here, do you guys think that (with the right investors) it would even be possible to re-open the speedway? I believe that if you were able to get enough interest shown, someone might be interested in re-opening, although it would be costly project since even the grandstands and garage buildings are all gone. However, you could probably get ARCA, ASA, USAR, USAC, and late models series to race there. I'm going to continue investigating, but I want all your opinions: Do you think it's possible?

    No.

    Look at what Rockingham drew for ARCA a few weeks back. And USAR is full of unknowns up there in modified country. USAc would do well but doing well still means less than 5,000 butts in the stands

    Cant run a mile speedway too long with 3000 people showing up for your races. Rockingham at least is close enough for teams in NC to drop in for a test day and they can still have dinner at home that night. Easy money those test days I bet. dont have to sell even one ticket to make a few dollars

    Nazareth is as dead as fried chicken
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisB View Post
    The people in the absolute best position to make this happen would be the Hulman clan. Only they alone could sit down with the Frances and say...

    "Look, every year you come to our Speedway and make a f**kload of money with the BY400... we want to buy Nazareth Speedway so that we can keep our own tightly controlled presence in the Philly/NY market... so tear up those restrictions and lets do a deal"
    The only problem is, why would the Hulmans want to dump millions into an oval that would end up losing tons of money once it was operational again. Wish the track was operational and on the schedule, but this isn't going to happen.

  9. #69
    I believe there is a sales stipulation by the owner (NASCAR) that the purchaser can not use the property as a race track.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtVandalay View Post
    I believe there is a sales stipulation by the owner (NASCAR) that the purchaser can not use the property as a race track.
    Sell it to someone else for $20, have them sell it back to you. Problem solved.
    Insert something witty here. I don't care.

  11. #71
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    I bet the demise of the track really bothers this guy the most.

    It's where he got his start.



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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevMcNJ View Post
    Just found these pics on another racing site

    Wasnt sure which forum to put this in

    Mark Knopfler must be furious

    http://www.usa50.com/DisplayThread.a...414265#1414265
    Dang... where's Tony Hulman when you need him?

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  13. #73
    And I agree with the majority though: ISC Sucks .... I am growing weary of seeing ISC shut down good race tracks to send more dates to their bigger tracks. And I am so glad to see "Save The Speedway" making progress with North Wilkesboro. Thanks all!
    That's SMI in N Wilkes, not ISC. That track is exactly half way between two other SMI tracks that already have way too much product to sell. It's worth much more to SMI dead than alive.
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  14. #74
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    I believe there is a sales stipulation by the owner (NASCAR) that the purchaser can not use the property as a race track.

    Yep, that's why I wrote above that the Hulmans should say to the Frances:

    "Look, every year you come to our Speedway and make a f**kload of money with the BY400... we want to buy Nazareth Speedway so that we can keep our own tightly controlled presence in the Philly/NY market... so tear up those restrictions and lets do a deal"



    Cant run a mile speedway too long with 3000 people showing up for your races.

    why would the Hulmans want to dump millions into an oval that would end up losing tons of money once it was operational again.



    The alternative is for the ICS in this area is to run at Pocono. Yea right.. like the Mattiolis are in love with Indy Car.


    What could a Hulman-owned Nazareth Speedway do to be profitable? First of all how about 2 Indy races at the track per year? NASCAR is able to run 4 times/year in this area: twice at Pocono and twice at Dover. The NHRA also run twice yearly in this area..once at Reading and the other at Englishtown. WoO runs 3x per year at Williams Grove. Plenty of race fans around here.

    They might also be able to build a decent club road course in the infield combined with the outter track... take some of the club racing business away from Pocono.

    And USAC Silver Crown... Nazareth National was all about Silver Crown. Although I still believe that Silver Crowns should be offset roadsters like this:
    http://www.trackforum.com/forums/sho...sprinter/page2



    And here's more pics I found on my hard-drive of 90's glory days:




  15. #75
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    Welcome back, ChrisB
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  16. #76
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    Both the owner (ISC) and the local officials don't want the race track. They want retail development there.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Noonan View Post
    That is a very sad picture. Nazareth didn't always produce the best racing, but it was really a drivers track and was so unique in it's layout.

    Exactly. Sad indeed...


  18. #78
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    Take this:








    And then "fix" it and you wind up with this:

    "I would really like to go to NASCAR. I really enjoy NASCAR and if I could be there in a couple of years that's where I'd want to be." - Jeff Gordon (after testing a Formula Super Vee)

  19. #79
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    Very interesting track. Sad.

  20. #80
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    Going to be in Nazareth next weekend (13th) for dinner with friends, if we get over there before it gets dark I'll see if I can stop and snap a few pictures as well. Attended many a race there when it was dirt as a kid, went back when the IRL started running there and enjoy it, Hornish's run there in the Chevy (2003) when it was underpowered was impressive. Everyone knows that retail development isn't coming in anytime soon in this economy but all the politicians want to act like they can make it happen so I don't see any of them giving in and it becoming a track again anytime soon.

    Is it May yet ?

  21. #81
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    You can get some good looks at the track by going to Bing.com and using their Bird's Eye feature on the maps. But it's still dead and whenever the economy picks up, buried.

  22. #82
    Heads Up: Georgetown Rd is place to see the track the best. There is a sharp turn in the road, pull over there. And you can walk over and see the exit of turn 2/backstretch

  23. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbeitzel View Post
    Heads Up: Georgetown Rd is place to see the track the best. There is a sharp turn in the road, pull over there. And you can walk over and see the exit of turn 2/backstretch
    I wonder if it was mandatory at some point that no mater where you were building it that you had to build your track along Georgetown Rd?

  24. #84
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    I wonder if it was mandatory at some point that no mater where you were building it that you had to build your track along Georgetown Rd?

    Yea, I always thought it ironic that Nazareth Speedway is right next to a Georgetown Rd

    Everyone knows that retail development isn't coming in anytime soon in this economy

    Agreed... and even if there were a developer willing to do something, commercial bank lending is very, very tough to come by right now.

    And as for the idea of the Hulman's buying the track... yea, the "bank of Tony George's checkbook" is gone too.

    BTW - I went onto Google maps and here's an aerial of probably one of the Nazareth grandstands now at Watkins Glen:



  25. #85
    Formerly MikaF1fan BuddyCarSeries's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisB View Post
    BTW - I went onto Google maps and here's an aerial of probably one of the Nazareth grandstands now at Watkins Glen:


    That's correct. ISC moved the grandstands to Watkins Glen.

  26. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Long View Post
    Well, except for the fact that you'd want to have NASCAR run there and ISC is NASCAR so they probably wouldn't go for that. You'd have IndyCars and that's about it.
    Well, one may be able to buy some of the land around it and make a road course at the place, perhaps using the oval as part of it. That would put ALMS, Grand-Am, AMA and a handful of others in play, too.

    But yeah, it sucks to see such an incredible place looking so awful. FU ISC.
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  27. #87
    From a fan standpoint, I never understood why the mile-length tracks never have good attendance. The big tracks (Daytona, California, Michigan, etc.) are terrible to sit at and watch, since you can't see anything. But tracks like Dover and Martinsville are excellent. I know Nazareth, PA isn't the most populated area, but it seems that (for viewing from grandstands) it would be an amazing track.

    And, does anyone know if they have security around the speedway. I mean, has anyone ever thought about jumping that fence and taking a walk around the speedway? Or am I the only one thinking about that... haha.

  28. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbeitzel View Post
    From a fan standpoint, I never understood why the mile-length tracks never have good attendance.
    There was a time when they did.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexbeitzel View Post
    The big tracks (Daytona, California, Michigan, etc.) are terrible to sit at and watch, since you can't see anything.
    I've never watched a race at Daytona but I've seen quite a few at Fontana and Michigan and have found there to be hardly a bad seat in either house. You can see the entire track from nearly all vantage points.

  29. #89
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    Fontana and Michigan work because, though they are big, they have the D-oval front straight, which allows you to see most all of the front straight. Plus the turns are banked and there aren't a lot of obstructions to block your view. Texas is the same way. Pocono is easily the worst viewing experience of any oval track.

  30. #90
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    http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4125/...9b0929dd_b.jpg
    another picture of nazareth as it stands today. such a sad picture
    I'd rather be living in Indianapolis or Long Beach instead of Charlotte, NC as there hasn't been an IndyCar race here since 1999.

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