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Thread: Pack Racing at Texas?

  1. #1
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    Pack Racing at Texas?

    Keep hearing some our "fans" and a few of our well-paid "journalists" talk about "pack racing" at Texas.

    I wonder if some of those same astute folks could tell us exactly what their definition of "pack racing" is? Or do we now lump every 1.5 mile oval in with Las Vegas, and call them all the same. Is "close racing" or "hard racing" now also considered pack racing?

    Here is a little tidbit for y'all....Vegas was and is unique to any other 1.5 oval that the ICS has ever run at. So just because a driver got killed at Vegas, doesn't mean all 1.5 mile ovals should be abandoned. They aren't the same, no matter how many uninformed folks try and say they are.

    Here is another little tidbit...Texas hasn't really had true "pack racing" (which by my definition, looks an awful lot like what you see at Daytona or Talladega in a stock car) since about 2002. The past few races at Texas, quite frankly, have been boring one-lane parades. The only time cars have run together (after starts and restarts) have been in short bursts and in 3-4 car "packs". Cars have generally spread out and raced like most Indy Car races on ovals have raced for 30 years.

    And one last one...why not angst and concern for our drivers and fans about Fontana? They are probably more likely to be running close together and side-by-side there, then they are at Texas. The IRL races there were pretty intense. And I think that track also had a pretty tragic death to a CART driver, when the cars were running pretty close to each other.

    Gee, I wonder why its Texas that is getting the negative press and "concern" and not Fontana? Couldn't be political, could it?
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    Registered User uncommonsense52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Gack View Post
    Gee, I wonder why its Texas that is getting the negative press and "concern" and not Fontana? Couldn't be political, could it?
    Political? Like, IndyCar politics? Or National politics?

    Either way, no.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uncommonsense52 View Post
    Political? Like, IndyCar politics? Or National politics?

    Either way, no.

    It's a right wing conspiracy.
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    Registered User JMFVET's Avatar
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    I have not yet seen an actual quote from a driver threatening a boycott. Nor a link to one.

    IMHO this whole thing is a big ado about nothing .... Except an unfounded rant by RM
    You can be a critical fan without being a Critic... Or can you? Quit your b'tchn and enjoy the racing :D

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMFVET View Post
    I have not yet seen an actual quote from a driver threatening a boycott. Nor a link to one.

    IMHO this whole thing is a big ado about nothing .... Except an unfounded rant by RM
    Robin may be a lot of things, but he doesn't just make up stories and report them. He may, if he is writing a opinion piece. But this wasn't a opinion piece.

    If he reported there "may" be a driver boycott, then that talk was certainly going around. And still is, by the way. Which I believe Wilson didn't squash either, when asked about it. And Eddie Gossage's response (which he hit out of the park) also shows how real this was and is.

    This was and is a very real story...and one to keep an eye on in the next 2 months.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uncommonsense52 View Post
    Political? Like, IndyCar politics? Or National politics?

    Either way, no.
    Texas = IRL
    Fontana = CART/Champ Car

    Texas is one of the last real links to the evil IRL (and that era is so despised that our current CEO doesn't even want the name mentioned). Built with "NASCAR" banking and a track that put on great racing and was envied so much that CART tried to horn in and steal their thunder and ended up looking like colossal fools. And its always drawn crowds. REAL crowds, actually there to watch the race.

    Fontana is one of those great tracks from the golden era of our sport. A "proper" race track for our "proper" race cars. Built and run by the great Roger Penske, our savior.

    Texas is dangerous. Fontana is just fast.

    We are "worried" about Texas because of Dan Wheldon's death at a completely different track and some pack racing we had there a decade ago. Yet, we aren't "worried" about Fontana, even though Greg Moore died there and there was a lot of close so-called "pack racing" there during the IRL years.

    And Texas draws people for Indy Car Races. Fontana can barely fill up half the track for a Cup race and most of its AOW races there have been poorly attended (especially after Marlboro quit giving away thousands of free tickets).

    Nope, not political at all.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by JMFVET View Post
    I have not yet seen an actual quote from a driver threatening a boycott. Nor a link to one.

    IMHO this whole thing is a big ado about nothing .... Except an unfounded rant by RM
    A couple of very prominent drivers have publicly discussed the viability of a Texas boycott, and they've been quoted in the media. It's not hard to find if you're willing to look.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Gack View Post
    Yet, we aren't "worried" about Fontana, even though Greg Moore died there and there was a lot of close so-called "pack racing" there during the IRL years.
    Moore's death had nothing to do with pack racing, and grass on the backstretch which was the main factor in the accident has been eliminated as the area is now fully paved.
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    Administrative Fool doitagain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Chin View Post
    A couple of very prominent drivers have publicly discussed the viability of a Texas boycott, and they've been quoted in the media. It's not hard to find if you're willing to look.
    So post a link.

    What I see are repeated dismissals when searching on "indycar+boycott+texas".
    "The series may be hesitant to say it, but the day is here for everybody that loves IndyCar racing to link arms and help each other out. Anybody who doesn’t want to do that needs to find something else to do with their time.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveL View Post

    1. Moore's death had nothing to do with pack racing

    2. and grass on the backstretch which was the main factor in the accident has been eliminated as the area is now fully paved.
    1. Neither did Wheldon's death. Which was pointed out in the accident report, I believe. It was a whole bunch of cars, who hadn't had time to spread out yet with some drivers driving like idiots very early in a 200 lap race, which caused the mess.

    2. Yes, it was grass for Moore and a closed track for Wheldon. Freak accidents both. If we can go back to Fontana and race we can sure as hell go back to Texas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by doitagain View Post
    So post a link.

    What I see are repeated dismissals when searching on "indycar+boycott+texas".
    Justin Wilson:

    "It’s just not the right thing to do. But I wouldn’t rule it out if no one is going to pay attention.’’
    Tony Kanaan:

    "We don’t think boycotting is the right thing to do at this time.’’
    Those aren't "dismissals". Those are veiled threats. And these two drivers are saying its not out of the question at some point. Maybe not now, but a month from now? They didn't rule it out, did they?

    They pretty much verified Miller's original story that he reported on Speed. And if you think they are the only two saying it or thinking it or even hoping for it, then you aren't being practical. They are speaking for the majority of the drivers. Not all (which Marco and Hildebrand pointed out) but enough.

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    BTW, former IRL driver Sarah Fisher was asked by WRTV's Dave Furst about "pack racing" in the ICS (while the station showed the opening lap at the 2011 Kentucky race) and while she basically refused to answer the question, it didn't take a rocket scientist to read exactly what she was thinking....some of our drivers need to shut up and grow a pair.

    And also about this interview with Fisher and Newgarden....maybe it was late (although I am sure it was taped at an earlier time of the day) but Sarah just didn't seem real enthused. I think this whole engine ordeal has taken a lot of the life out of her. Newgarden seemed pumped up but Sarah seemed like she was really forcing herself to smile and put on a good face about things.

    Her admitting that "she just doesn't play the political game very well" was pretty revealing. You better Sarah, if you wanna survive in this new era.

  13. #13
    I think what people consider "pack racing" is when cars are able to run side-by-side, but are not able to pass with any regularity. So what you wind up with is a giant pack of cars running two-by-two several rows deep. Vegas has a wider, newer track surface allowing the cars to run 3 wide at very high speed. What the drivers want is to be able to pass not just pull along side and stall out. I am hopeful that having different power bands in the engines will allow for it, but I am afraid that all cars running the exact same areo will lead to more of the NASCAR restrictor plate feel. Whether you love it or hate, the current drivers find it to be a dangerous way to run for laps on end. Since I am not out there running, I am willing to defer to them. They are the ones putting their lives on the line for my entertainment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gateway Fan View Post
    Whether you love it or hate, the current drivers find it to be a dangerous way to run for laps on end. Since I am not out there running, I am willing to defer to them. They are the ones putting their lives on the line for my entertainment.
    And that type of racing hasn't occurred at Texas since about 2002.

    If the drivers find high speed oval racing "dangerous", then they shouldn't be here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Gack View Post
    And that type of racing hasn't occurred at Texas since about 2002.

    If the drivers find high speed oval racing "dangerous", then they shouldn't be here.
    there is a line of differance between dangerous and foolish playing with fire,, is there anyone surprised at what happened in las vegas? a death finally released the inner rejections of pack racing in open wheel held by far more than those who express the cold apathy I see in that remark. Shouldnt be there? well they are,, and its thier right to choose where the line of danger becomes unacceptable,,
    I love the sport more than I hate the past,

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    Quote Originally Posted by paper View Post
    there is a line of differance between dangerous and foolish playing with fire,, is there anyone surprised at what happened in las vegas? a death finally released the inner rejections of pack racing in open wheel held by far more than those who express the cold apathy I see in that remark. Shouldnt be there? well they are,, and its thier right to choose where the line of danger becomes unacceptable,,
    Again son, Vegas and Texas aren't the same track.

    Lumping them together is ignorant.

    We have never seen a race or our cars perform like they did at Vegas. Texas from the past decade has been pretty tame, for those without an anti-IRL, anti-high speed oval agenda.

    Indy and Pocono are both 2.5 mile ovals too. They aren't the same either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Gack View Post
    Again son, Vegas and Texas aren't the same track.

    Lumping them together is ignorant.

    We have never seen a race or our cars perform like they did at Vegas. Texas from the past decade has been pretty tame, for those without an anti-IRL, anti-high speed oval agenda.

    Indy and Pocono are both 2.5 mile ovals too. They aren't the same either.
    well of course ,, but if the drivers dont want to do it, its really thier call,, this most likely comes from the apprehension before vegas ,, the show went on and disaster hit. the transference is understandable that many DO lump it together
    one can say then get out all they want,, but when all is said and done, this feild will make the choice. on many who would like to? they dont have a check, thats the reality of this time,,,,,

    "son" now thats funny unless you have beat me to SSI, but I do still make toy cars,,,,,,

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    Quote Originally Posted by paper View Post
    but if the drivers dont want to do it, its really thier call,, this most likely comes from the apprehension before vegas ,, the show went on and disaster hit.
    Its not really their call. They aren't running the series. Or at least, shouldn't be.

    They have raced at Texas every year since 1997. There have been about 3 accidents there, where drivers were seriously injured. The last decade or so of races there, have been very safe and the racing (quite frankly) kinda boring.

    I shared the same apprehension about Vegas as many did, before the race. Even predicted that I felt like something bad was going to happen, the day before the race. You could tell just watching practice that the speeds were way too fast and the type of racing we were going to see, very different than anything we had seen in a long time (if ever).

    Vegas was not and is not Texas. They don't race the same way. The speed difference was noticeable. The reaction times very different. Vegas was a different animal.

    And I still want to hear why Fontana is going to be just fine, and Texas isn't. Fontana is bad fast, you never lift and there have been some awful crashes there too.

    Fontana is safe for Indy Cars and so is Texas....if the drivers actually use their damn heads and act like they have been on a oval before (which sadly, several of them haven't done much of in their lives...which might be a big part of the issue here...)

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    Quote Originally Posted by paper View Post
    well of course ,, but if the drivers dont want to do it, its really thier call,, this most likely comes from the apprehension before vegas ,, the show went on and disaster hit. the transference is understandable that many DO lump it together
    one can say then get out all they want,, but when all is said and done, this feild will make the choice. on many who would like to? they dont have a check, thats the reality of this time,,,,,
    First time I went to Eldora I literally puked after the first hot lap session and didn't want to race there. The boss said, grow some balls and follow Schrader around in the next session, he'll help you out. I did what I was told and by the time I finished my heat race I was still scared, but I knew that if I couldn't race there I might as well just step out of the cockpit....
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