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Thread: New Book coming about 1964 500

  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by racing28 View Post
    No, not Foyt, although he hinted his team was using a bigger tank. It was rookie Johnny White, and he played a major role in the race. He was going so slow in the early going he balked Jimmy Clark, allowing Bobby Marshman to move into the lead. And a few laps later Marshman was startled by how rapidly he gained on White going into the first turn and had to drive low to avoid him, damaging his car and forcing Bobby out of the race. White would lumber on, make just one pit stop and finish fourth, earning Rookie of the Year honors.

    OK, I messed up.

    Was going through the thread another time and saw you mentioned that when speaking people like Gurney etc they all mentioned the 80 to 100 gallon fuel tanks.
    I suppose that, if you told them the truth and pointed out the evidence you could provide, some of them must have looked quite surprised, if not puzzled.
    I have noticed how often Rutherford is quoted over the years in all kind of books. Once your book is out, I wonder what he will think and feel about what his comments over the years have caused. In the article about the accident on that 8W website, Johnny is taken on quite hard and it reads to me as if Rutherford is the one who'se held most responsible for the 80 gallon story. Though as the article also mentioned, Johnny was telling things in the state of mind he he was in after going through that inferno and with the knowledge he had at the time.
    And somehow, the story was taken for the truth ever since.

    But I am pretty sure you must have had some unusual moments when you had to tell people about things they had taken for granted not being correct at all.
    I'm sure you must have had some very memorable, unusal moments with a number of people.

    Indyote

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by racing28 View Post
    ....allowing Bobby Marshman to move into the lead. And a few laps later Marshman was startled by how rapidly he gained on White going into the first turn and had to drive low to avoid him, damaging his car and forcing Bobby out of the race. ......
    Apparently, Marshman's oil system tubing had been modified by mechanic Jack Beckley for some reason. Where the oil lines had been protected inside a "v" area of the tub in 1963 (Gurney wrecked the car on the First Day of Time Trials) Beckley chose to move them in 1964 to the left and lower them to the point where they were actually the lowest point on the car outside of the wheel assemblies. This may not have been the whole cause of Marshman's retirement since he did apparently get into the grass pretty hard. But the oil lines were also damaged in addition to the "engine oil plug" as reported in the media. I've always wondered what the real story was since we're talking about dry sump engines. On an Offenhauser the plug in the bottom of the engine is recessed below the crankcase so you would have to grind away part of the case before you would even get to the oil plug. And it's not like a street car engine where you remove the plug to drain the oil. At the most the plug would be removed just to check on something or sample what little oil would come out. Race engines generally don't get oil changes; they are completely rebuilt after a very limited amount of miles (easily under 1000 miles in that era) and get fresh oil at that time. And I'm no expert on 4-Cam Ford race engines but the only oil plug I've ever seen on one was on the left side (not the bottom) toward the back of the engine at the bottom of the crankcase. Released Ford Engineering drawings show the same setup. Unless someone can tell me differently I'm pretty dubious about the engine having any kind of a plug in its bottom at all. I think the oil plug story simply took on a life of its own and is still being repeated 50 years later.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Indyote View Post
    OK, I messed up.

    Was going through the thread another time and saw you mentioned that when speaking people like Gurney etc they all mentioned the 80 to 100 gallon fuel tanks.
    I suppose that, if you told them the truth and pointed out the evidence you could provide, some of them must have looked quite surprised, if not puzzled.
    I have noticed how often Rutherford is quoted over the years in all kind of books. Once your book is out, I wonder what he will think and feel about what his comments over the years have caused. In the article about the accident on that 8W website, Johnny is taken on quite hard and it reads to me as if Rutherford is the one who'se held most responsible for the 80 gallon story. Though as the article also mentioned, Johnny was telling things in the state of mind he he was in after going through that inferno and with the knowledge he had at the time.
    And somehow, the story was taken for the truth ever since.

    But I am pretty sure you must have had some unusual moments when you had to tell people about things they had taken for granted not being correct at all.
    I'm sure you must have had some very memorable, unusal moments with a number of people.

    Indyote
    Spoke with Rutherford on three different occasions because some of what he's said over the years has become controversial. The most damming was a quote about what he thought when MacDonald re-passed him at the start of lap two, "Whoa, he's either gonna win this thing or crash." His comment that MacDonald was kicking up grass has been reported over the years that MacDonald was driving in the grass. But Rutherford told me that didn't mean MacDonald was in the grass, only that he was low on the track and tossing up debris.

    You're right, lots of interesting stories behind the story and I'm trying to shed some light on those stories on a Facebook page devoted to the book if you're interested. Just posted one about the interview with A. J. Foyt.
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Black-Noon/161904433981559

  4. #124
    Registered User Thorzdad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by racing28 View Post
    Finally, one car actually did carry 100 gallons of fuel at the start. It also had a major impact on the race. But I’ve already rambled on here, so I’ll leave that story for another time.
    I wonder if it was this car? I found this browsing the Henry Ford collection linked to earlier. I can't say I've ever seen a both-sides-at-once fueling set-up like that.

  5. #125
    Runnin down a dream
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    I would love to see the old "teleprompter" replay of the race that I watched...

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
    I wonder if it was this car? I found this browsing the Henry Ford collection linked to earlier. I can't say I've ever seen a both-sides-at-once fueling set-up like that.
    No, that's Len Sutton's REO Huffacker. It was Johnny White in the #99 Watson.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by racing28 View Post
    No, that's Len Sutton's REO Huffacker. ........
    Sutton was driving a Vollstedt. Rolla's still around and might actually be reading this so you had better get it right.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by indyrjc View Post
    Sutton was driving a Vollstedt. Rolla's still around and might actually be reading this so you had better get it right.
    Of course he was. Sorry about that.

    Art

  9. #129
    Registered User IndyDog's Avatar
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    Art, today I went to the IMS Museum Gift Shop to buy your book. Sadly they carry very few books now and yours is not one of them.
    Can you tell us where in Indianapolis we can buy it?
    "We are all speeding toward our deaths at 60 minutes an hour." Sid Collins on Race Day, 1964

  10. #130
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    It is released this tuesday, so won't be in any store until then.

  11. #131
    Administrative Fool doitagain's Avatar
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    Barnes & Noble and Books A Million, per Art Garner (racing28).
    "The series may be hesitant to say it, but the day is here for everybody that loves IndyCar racing to link arms and help each other out. Anybody who doesn’t want to do that needs to find something else to do with their time.”

    -- Eddie Gossage, President, Texas Motor Speedway, ICONIC Advisory Committee & TrackForum member

  12. #132
    BTW, I'll be doing a "talk and book signing" at the River Crossing Blvd. Barnes & Noble on Tuesday, May 20 at 7 p.m.

    Art

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by preacher View Post
    It is released this tuesday, so won't be in any store until then.
    You might want to tell that to the the Books a Million in Meridian, MS, because I picked it up from there on April 28th.
    We drive 800 miles every year to see them go 500 miles. And we're glad to do it.

  14. #134
    Indy since '66 kevin99's Avatar
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    How do you like it?

    Ordered mine on Amazon couple weeks ago, said I should get it this week.
    "You just don't know what Indy Means", Al Unser Jr.

    "That's why to me it does feel more precious when an American wins it...", Michael Andretti

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Joonyah View Post
    You might want to tell that to the the Books a Million in Meridian, MS, because I picked it up from there on April 28th.
    That's what I like to hear, a little initiative. And thanks much for the purchase. Have been told BAM will do a special book display, at least in the Indy area. Would like to hear other experiences...


    Art

  16. #136
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    Got an e-mail from Amazon this morning. Shipped and should be here tomorrow. Can't wait!

  17. #137
    Registered User Bruce Spencer's Avatar
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    My Amazon preorder is telling me May 9, the money was taken out of the account today.
    I'll see YOU at the races!

  18. #138
    Some guy with a red name.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin99 View Post
    How do you like it?

    Ordered mine on Amazon couple weeks ago, said I should get it this week.
    I love the backstory about Eddie Sachs and Dave MacDonald and devoting an entire chapter to each and how they got their start in racing. I'm at the chapter about Ford getting into racing. If you've read the book Go Like Hell​ then a lot of the stuff you'll read will sound very familiar to you.

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by racing28 View Post
    That's what I like to hear, a little initiative. And thanks much for the purchase. Have been told BAM will do a special book display, at least in the Indy area. Would like to hear other experiences...


    Art
    I was on my way back from Barber and stopped at a Best Buy to see about card readers, plus to check some numbers (I work at Best Buy while I'm trying to pursue a motorsports career) and since Books A Million was just next door, I figured that I'd stop there in case they had more racing books than my Barnes & Noble has near New Orleans. I saw the book and just grabbed it, since I'm a racing history nut.

  20. #140
    Unregistered User pb's Avatar
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    Howdy Art--

    Glad you're on the forum. Have mine on order with bamm.com. Truly looking forward to it!
    No man can cause more grief than that one clinging blindly to the vices of his ancestors. - William Faulkner

  21. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Joonyah View Post
    I love the backstory about Eddie Sachs and Dave MacDonald and devoting an entire chapter to each and how they got their start in racing. I'm at the chapter about Ford getting into racing. If you've read the book Go Like Hell​ then a lot of the stuff you'll read will sound very familiar to you.
    Thanks everyone for your support. I purposely waited until I had finished my book before reading Go Like Hell as I knew they were from the same time period and I didn't want to let A. J. Baime's book influence mime. As it is, at least one chapter has the same title, "Total Performance" on Ford's racing program, but that seemed like a natural title so I didn't change mine. It's a good read and I'd recommend it. -- Art

  22. #142
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    Art:

    Received my copy via Kindle.

    Now just have to wrestle it away from my wife.

  23. #143
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    Re: Marshman

    Good stuff, indyrjc...

    Quote Originally Posted by indyrjc View Post
    I think the oil plug story simply took on a life of its own and is still being repeated 50 years later.
    As has the story of Marshman making just one trip down low that caused all of his trouble when contemporary accounts noted him repeatedly running low.

    There seems a revisionist view of blaming a "slower car" or someone else when at the time the perception was Marshman made one too many trips down low and it simply caught up with the car.
    "Versions of a story that are more tidy, compact, and camera-ready should generally be viewed as historically suspect." - Jackson Landers

  24. #144
    Dirt biker/carp hunter Stick500's Avatar
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    really nice review on RACER from the publisher who was 9 when he watched '64 at a theatre

    http://www.racer.com/indycar/item/10...d-the-indy-500
    "Charging a man with murder here was like handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500."- Capt. Willard, Apocolypse Now
    "Ain't nuthin' like a piece of p***y, 'cept maybe the Indy 500."- Bunny, Platoon
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  25. #145
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    should I download it now or go find the hardcover. I 'm betting the hardcover is the way to go for this one....
    It's a brand new day.

  26. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitrofan View Post
    should I download it now or go find the hardcover. I 'm betting the hardcover is the way to go for this one....
    I would tend to agree w/ you. Kindle 'books' are not the same as the printed version. I bet Art has included plenty of photos in the book, but haven't see one yet in the Kindle edition.

    For me, thats OK. I have other material on the `64 race.

    PS>Art: A chapter on the gas vs methanol controversy?!?! Wonderful! 3W's undoing.

  27. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by CruzBay View Post
    I would tend to agree w/ you. Kindle 'books' are not the same as the printed version. I bet Art has included plenty of photos in the book, but haven't see one yet in the Kindle edition.

    For me, thats OK. I have other material on the `64 race.

    PS>Art: A chapter on the gas vs methanol controversy?!?! Wonderful! 3W's undoing.
    Eight pages of photos in the hardcover book, don't know, but think they must be in the Kindle version too. Some good human interest photos I don't believe have been seen before. And thanks for the callout on the gas vs. methanol chapter. Wanted to write a book that was accessible to most, but didn't want to do what I call a "racing lite" book. Took my wife a little while to get through that chapter, but thought it was important...

  28. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by racing28 View Post
    Eight pages of photos in the hardcover book, don't know, but think they must be in the Kindle version too. Some good human interest photos I don't believe have been seen before. And thanks for the callout on the gas vs. methanol chapter. Wanted to write a book that was accessible to most, but didn't want to do what I call a "racing lite" book. Took my wife a little while to get through that chapter, but thought it was important...
    I could get both

  29. #149
    Registered User Liz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by racing28 View Post
    That's what I like to hear, a little initiative. And thanks much for the purchase. Have been told BAM will do a special book display, at least in the Indy area. Would like to hear other experiences...

    Art
    No display in Terre Haute's Books A Million, but the book was there. I'm looking forward to a great read.
    #BCForever

  30. #150
    Registered User IndyDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joonyah View Post
    You might want to tell that to the the Books a Million in Meridian, MS, because I picked it up from there on April 28th.
    Joonyah, what are you doing in Meridian??

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