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Thread: History of 1996 Indianapolis 500 cars

  1. #1
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    History of 1996 Indianapolis 500 cars

    It can be assumed that pre-existing teams like Foyt, Menard and Scandia (Simon) used cars that they already owned, but I would still like to know who exactly drove those cars in previous years.

    I also know that Buddy Lazier's winning car was the car that Jimmy Vasser crashed the previous year.

    Does anybody know the histories of the cars that participated in the 1996 500?

  2. #2
    36 & counting SeeUinMay's Avatar
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    There is a story here somewhere about this car. It was Arie's record setter IIRC.





    It was entered by Project Indy and driven by Johnny Parsons and someone else I believe. It was crashed by one of them.

    I'm at work so that's the best Clifnotes version I can give right now.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino Ryan View Post
    It can be assumed that pre-existing teams like Foyt, Menard and Scandia (Simon) used cars that they already owned, but I would still like to know who exactly drove those cars in previous years.

    I also know that Buddy Lazier's winning car was the car that Jimmy Vasser crashed the previous year.

    Does anybody know the histories of the cars that participated in the 1996 500?



    This tells something but not everything. Detailed info about 1996 was difficult to fint in print, the article does tell at least one of the reasons why and I don't want to take credit for putting that here.
    I have the feeling we have some chassis history experts among us that could fill in the list but how can we persuade them to share their info?




    http://8w.forix.com/indy96.html


    Indyote

  4. #4
    Lyn St. James car (which was #45) was the same car that Hideshi Matsuda had driven as a rookie for Beck Motorsports in the 1994 Indy 500.

    I am pretty sure that Paul Durant's car was the oldest car in the field that year. I think it was a 92' Lola Buick.

    And Pagan did use the Roberto Guerrero 1992 record breaker in practice that year with Billy Boat behind the wheel, but didn't try to qualify that car.

  5. #5
    Registered User David_Skywalker's Avatar
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    According to the Starting Grid from ABC Sports:

    Zampedri- St. James 1995

    Hamilton- Cheever 1995

    Ongais(Brayton)- Arie 1995


    One I know 99% for sure (my dad worked on the team)

    Paul Jr.- Geoff Brabham's 1993 Lola-Menard


    From my own research I could take a few guesses


    Jones- Adrian Fernandez's Michigan 500 car (same rear facing onboard camera mount)

    Groff- Either a Robby Gordon or Fittipaldi car from 1995

    Murphy- Stan Fox's 1994 car, which probably also attempted to qualify in 1995 with Davey Hamilton and missed the show
    Just wait 'till next year!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by David_Skywalker View Post

    One I know 99% for sure (my dad worked on the team)

    Paul Jr.- Geoff Brabham's 1993 Lola-Menard
    I thought that this was the case with that car. I say this because at the season-opener at Orlando, the car was still painted like a Menard car and I already knew that it was a 1993 model.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino Ryan View Post
    I thought that this was the case with that car. I say this because at the season-opener at Orlando, the car was still painted like a Menard car and I already knew that it was a 1993 model.
    From internet info I have gathered, Paul Jr. drove what was a '93 Menard car but in '93 it was a Bettenhausen backup. The mentioned Brabham car was according what I can make up with pooling all my info sold off to Dale Coyne and became the Bachelart Marmon Wasp II. And that car was wiped out in '94. An afful day for Coyne when on a single day two cars of his stable were wiped out in crashes.


    Indyote

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indyote View Post
    From internet info I have gathered, Paul Jr. drove what was a '93 Menard car but in '93 it was a Bettenhausen backup. The mentioned Brabham car was according what I can make up with pooling all my info sold off to Dale Coyne and became the Bachelart Marmon Wasp II. And that car was wiped out in '94. An afful day for Coyne when on a single day two cars of his stable were wiped out in crashes.


    Indyote
    The car does look like it was a Gary Bettenhausen Glidden car, but the blue on it matches what would have been on Brabham's car in 1993.






  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino Ryan View Post
    The car does look like it was a Gary Bettenhausen Glidden car, but the blue on it matches what would have been on Brabham's car in 1993.





    No offence intended but don't forget it's three years later and some re-painting can have happened in that time.
    Given that there is so much uncertain about the '96 cars and where /how to find info on them, anything can be correct.
    But let's make it clear another time: I don't say you're wrong, right?

    Indyote

  10. #10
    Kart racer, Indyfan 1988- SteveK51's Avatar
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    From seeing the qualifying show at Disney in 1996, they mention that PDM had one of Scott Pruett's 1995 Lolas but could not acquire a Cosworth for it. So they instead brought the 93 Lola with a more readily available Menard Buick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indyote View Post
    No offence intended but don't forget it's three years later and some re-painting can have happened in that time.
    Given that there is so much uncertain about the '96 cars and where /how to find info on them, anything can be correct.
    But let's make it clear another time: I don't say you're wrong, right?

    Indyote
    I wasn't meaning to right it down as absolute fact, just speculation.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino Ryan View Post
    I wasn't meaning to right it down as absolute fact, just speculation.
    Don't worry, I don't think what I wrote is the absolute truth either. But based on what I know of my sources, it is the one thing I dare to believe the most of all, till better evidence comes along.
    In fact, you've shared info and insights, which is more that most of the people reading this thread will do....

    The article I linked about the 1996 car, I don't know if you took the time to read it but the author correctky pointed out that just about every 1996 publication (Yearbooks and programs) list Arie having two '95 Reynards to his disposal but one of them was most definitely a '94!
    Getting insight of the 1996 starters and the cars entered that is a challenge.

    My own list is rather impractical to include or attach but I will try to extract an overview of the ID's I have made based on all info I gathered. Might take some time before I have that done, no promise I will succeed and be patience. And don't be disappointed if I fail to deliver after all....
    But our best hope is find some of the specialists in the field having mercy on us and sharing his info with us.


    BTW, that '93 car of Brabham was likely one of the most beautiful of all those Menard entries. I was told that the blue in real was a fluorescent blue but that wasn't to `catch` on picture showing its `true color` ....

    Regards,

    Indyote

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indyote View Post
    The article I linked about the 1996 car, I don't know if you took the time to read it but the author correctky pointed out that just about every 1996 publication (Yearbooks and programs) list Arie having two '95 Reynards to his disposal but one of them was most definitely a '94!
    Getting insight of the 1996 starters and the cars entered that is a challenge.
    I did read the article and I found it to be informative about the history of Luyendyk's track record car. I knew that it was a part of the Project Indy team in 1995, but I did not know who owned it in 1994 nor did I know that Fred Treadway was a partner in Project Indy.

    As the article did say, the differences between a 94i and 95i were very minor and I wonder if the reason why Luyendyk was listed as having two 95is was because the car was updated with the changes that went 95is.

  14. #14
    Proud to be a Furriner :) Michael Ferner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indyote View Post
    I have the feeling we have some chassis history experts among us that could fill in the list but how can we persuade them to share their info?
    Quote Originally Posted by Indyote View Post
    But our best hope is find some of the specialists in the field having mercy on us and sharing his info with us.
    Don't know if you were thinking of me when writing this, but I'm not holding anything back, nor do I expect there to be (m)any others who do. I will admit to not having done any serious research on anything past 1993 yet, and the only info about the '96 field I have in my files has been mentioned already: that of Lola T9500-21 having qualified second fast and finished 7th two years in a row.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Ferner View Post
    Don't know if you were thinking of me when writing this, but I'm not holding anything back, nor do I expect there to be (m)any others who do. I will admit to not having done any serious research on anything past 1993 yet, and the only info about the '96 field I have in my files has been mentioned already: that of Lola T9500-21 having qualified second fast and finished 7th two years in a row.

    Michael,

    I was not exactly thinking about you though I rate you as one of the experts in the field, though about subjects that are likely even tougher to settle than this one.
    Hope that doesn't offend you but I know that you are far better in knowledge and next to unsurpassed about eras long gone.

    Anyway, thanks for you stepping in, it is appreciated.

    regards,

    Indyote

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    I found this older thread about this topic:
    http://www.trackforum.com/forums/sho...-chassis-chart

    According to it (take it for what it's worth), Buzz Culkins drove the same car that Christian Fittipaldi drove in 1995, Mike Groff drove Robby Gordon's car (that isn't very surprising, since it was the same team) and Stephan Gregoire drove a car used by Ganassi at some point in 1995.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino Ryan View Post
    I found this older thread about this topic:
    http://www.trackforum.com/forums/sho...-chassis-chart

    According to it (take it for what it's worth), Buzz Culkins drove the same car that Christian Fittipaldi drove in 1995, Mike Groff drove Robby Gordon's car (that isn't very surprising, since it was the same team) and Stephan Gregoire drove a car used by Ganassi at some point in 1995.


    I wanted to do something with my list of '96 cars but by now I don't dare to do so anymore when I found out that within my list the car in which Brayton qualified and was raced by Ongais was not the one that Arie raced in '95.
    So far for my credibility in the subject.......


    My list does suggest that Gregoire raced what was Bryan Herta's car in '95.
    It confirms Groff driving the '95 Robby Gordon car.
    Other things my list tells, for whatever that is worth nowadays:

    Robby Unser's '96 #65 was Scott Goodyear's '95 #24
    Richie Hearn's '96 #4 was Hiro Matsushita's '95 #25


    Indyote

  18. #18
    36 & counting SeeUinMay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indyote View Post



    My list does suggest that Gregoire raced what was Bryan Herta's car in '95.
    It confirms Groff driving the '95 Robby Gordon car.
    Other things my list tells, for whatever that is worth nowadays:

    Robby Unser's '96 #65 was Scott Goodyear's '95 #24
    Richie Hearn's '96 #4 was Hiro Matsushita's '95 #25


    Indyote

    ???


    Do you mean Johnny Unser and #64?



    Robby didn't race Indy until '98.
    Whoever said nothing was impossible obviously never tried slamming a revolving door.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by SeeUinMay View Post
    ???


    Do you mean Johnny Unser and #64?



    Robby didn't race Indy until '98.
    Ouch!!!!!
    Well at least it is someone else than Spike to put me back into my place and in a more gentle manner than 'being nailed'.....
    Sorry, the 65 is a typo, I did indeed mean the 64. That's the easy explanation.

    And I did mess up big time with the Unsers, it was indeed Johnny. Sorry and thanks for correcting me in an at least friendly manner compared with the `nailings` I've had on the sister forum.....




    Indyote

  20. #20
    Another one which looks pretty sure: Davy Jones' '96 #70 was the Fernandez '95 #10

    Indyote

  21. #21
    Registered User David_Skywalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indyote View Post
    Another one which looks pretty sure: Davy Jones' '96 #70 was the Fernandez '95 #10

    Indyote
    As I said earlier in the thread, 99% certain its the car from the '95 Michigan 500 (driven by Fernandez) that Jones raced.

    Its the only Lola I know of to have a rearward onboard camera mount on the lower rear cowling.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by David_Skywalker View Post
    As I said earlier in the thread, 99% certain its the car from the '95 Michigan 500 (driven by Fernandez) that Jones raced.

    Its the only Lola I know of to have a rearward onboard camera mount on the lower rear cowling.
    No offence intended, OK?
    My ID of the Jones car #70 is based on chassis numbers I know about having been used in Indy. I don't have access to '95 Michigan 500 material for visual identification like you could.

    Indyote

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by David_Skywalker View Post
    According to the Starting Grid from ABC Sports:

    Zampedri- St. James 1995

    Hamilton- Cheever 1995

    Ongais(Brayton)- Arie 1995


    One I know 99% for sure (my dad worked on the team)

    Paul Jr.- Geoff Brabham's 1993 Lola-Menard


    From my own research I could take a few guesses


    Jones- Adrian Fernandez's Michigan 500 car (same rear facing onboard camera mount)

    Groff- Either a Robby Gordon or Fittipaldi car from 1995

    Murphy- Stan Fox's 1994 car, which probably also attempted to qualify in 1995 with Davey Hamilton and missed the show


    David,

    I don't want to correct you or pretend I know better, OK?
    I just wanna try to discuss the subject and hopefully that results into something more substantial.


    Your comment about the Murphy car is puzzling for me. But at the same time my own data are puzzling too.

    My data tells me that Brad drove a 94I and I got a chassis number for it being 9. According the '94 Hungness, the 94I-009 did not make the show so it must have been a backup car. The 94I's that started the race were 5, 6, 7, 8, 9,11,12 and 14. (BTW, I found evidence of 14 94I's built and 13 of them were at the track that year. 94-004 has been identified as being the 12T in '94 so I have 5 94I's of which the '94 identity is not known)

    The difficulty for me is that according the '94 yearbook the 94I-014 was the Stan Fox car. But I received info that the 94I-014 was entered for Roberto Guerrero and thus tha car no longer with Hemelgarn any longer. And I wonder why Hemelgarn would have sold off a good 94I first and have it replaced by secondhand 95I's he obtained from Ganassi. Unless of course a Ex-Ganassi was always an improvement on any 94I he had thus upgrading the hardware being done and let some of his own hardware go to other IRL team owners in need for cars. One would think that at that time any '95 or '94 car that became available was hot property.
    Think about it; if the CART teams had hold onto their older equipment at the end of '95 instead of selling it off like they did how difficult times IRL would have had then.....


    Pretty much the same for your claim for the Hamilton car of '96 being the Cheever car. On the list I got I tend to believe that it was not Hamilton's but Scott Sharp's car


    Regrettably, the list I had access to only listed car numbers with the chassis number but no type of car so I then had to use the '96 Hungness and entry lists to find out if a chassis number 004 was either a Lola or a Reynard and then what type of Lola and/or Reynard.

    Just my two cents in order to prove how difficult this subject is. But I have the feeling you have your own experiences with that.

    Indyote

  24. #24
    Registered User David_Skywalker's Avatar
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    Absolutely 0 problem from me correcting my work, Indyote. Its fun to piece this mystery together.


    As for the Jones car... here is the comparison of the Marlboro 500 to the 1996 Indy 500.





    Now its entirely possible that Galles swapped engine covers between the two chassis and if indeed your info is correct that Jones car was Fernandez's Indy car and (presumably) only used twice.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino Ryan View Post
    The car does look like it was a Gary Bettenhausen Glidden car, but the blue on it matches what would have been on Brabham's car in 1993.







    The #18 car was used as a test car for Menard in 1995 and was numbered 80 for practice and driven by Buddy Lazier. Buddy would us Scooty B's back up car 60T USAC #79 on raceday. in 1995 Menard had 3 1993 Lolas at indy.

  26. #26
    Love reading threads like this one, thanks to all.
    “Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for" - Will Rogers

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