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Thread: IndyCar falls short in bid to lure third engine manufacturer

  1. #91
    There is no substitute. Spike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamski View Post
    Love the new cars.
    Car.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamski View Post
    Can't wait to see them in action.
    It.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamski View Post
    Not so keen on the engines...ooops, power units.
    Engines.
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  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike View Post
    Car.

    It.

    Engines.
    Spike, you must take time to visit next time you're in Tennessee.

  3. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by BADGER View Post
    They were never bitched by me. They added more interest among the fans as witnessed by multi page threads when they were introduced. Now we can go back to talking about who is styling the new spec kit or what sneakers the various drivers wear.
    Agreed. While they were by no means a perfect solution, they did represent and end to at least one of the spec/universal aspects of the series. And as a fan, I was certainly interested.

    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Grigson View Post
    Nothing to mourn of course. A few of us are yelling 'told ya so' .
    It's interesting you say that. I've been meaning to get in touch with GlennH for a little while now...

  4. #94

  5. #95
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    Wait a minute, shouldn't the aero savings have been more than enough to cover the cost of the Honda Fan zone? How many were duped into believing money spent to on aerokits, would be transferred into money spent on league promotion? You have to be incredibly naive to believe the money a manufacture was willing to spend to win would be the same as the money spent to promote the series, but a hell of a lot of people here fell for it.
    Last edited by BADGER; 06-12-2017 at 05:15 PM.

  6. #96
    It certainly means that someone doing the math doesn't believe that the Fan Zone presented any significant ROI, doesn't it?

    And if the OEM who has supplied engines to the series for all this time cannot commit itself to the Fan Zone expense, why would another maker want to jump in?

  7. #97
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    I've never been to the Honda Fan Zone at an Indycar race, although I went to the one at MotoGP several times.
    The Honda Fan Zone is intended to help sell Honda vehicles and equipment to the public by allowing them to see and experience the hardware up close.
    Somehow this seems like a poor place to cut budget. But I'm sure there's a corps of MBAs who have much more insight into this stuff.
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  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by BADGER View Post
    aero savings
    Perhaps that hasn't been fully realized yet. Is it possible the mfgrs are having to subsidize the costs of replacing all these expensive carbon fiber flapperdoodles on a weekly basis?

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by BADGER View Post
    Wait a minute, shouldn't the aero savings have been more than enough to cover the cost of the Honda Fan zone? How many were duped into believing money spent to on aerokits, would be transferred into money spent on league promotion. You have to be incredibly naive to believe the money a manufacture was willing to spend to win would be the same as the money spent to promote the series, but a hell of a lot of people here fell for it.
    The aero kit money went to Ganassi and Coyne.
    Just wait 'till next year!

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamski View Post
    Spike, you must take time to visit next time you're in Tennessee.
    Where are you gonna be?
    "George Bignott's Sinmast Wildcat; delicately built, carefully prepared and boldly driven by Gordon Johncock." -- Keith Jackson

  11. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by BADGER View Post
    Wait a minute, shouldn't the aero savings have been more than enough to cover the cost of the Honda Fan zone? How many were duped into believing money spent to on aerokits, would be transferred into money spent on league promotion. You have to be incredibly naive to believe the money a manufacture was willing to spend to win would be the same as the money spent to promote the series, but a hell of a lot of people here fell for it.
    it was diverted to Honda Japan to prop up the more important F1 engine program...

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by BADGER View Post
    Wait a minute, shouldn't the aero savings have been more than enough to cover the cost of the Honda Fan zone? How many were duped into believing money spent to on aerokits, would be transferred into money spent on league promotion. You have to be incredibly naive to believe the money a manufacture was willing to spend to win would be the same as the money spent to promote the series, but a hell of a lot of people here fell for it.
    I take it that you were a fan of the aero kits, which is fine. but it was a complete waste of time and money, didn't add one single fan, or boost attendance or have any net positive for the series... the universal kits in 2018 will be better for indycar on several factors
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  13. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by RHRfan#1 View Post
    I take it that you were a fan of the aero kits, which is fine. but it was a complete waste of time and money, didn't add one single fan, or boost attendance or have any net positive for the series... the universal kits in 2018 will be better for indycar on several factors
    Bingo. The aero kits when announced sounded interesting but they did not add a single new eyeball, a single new manufacturer or do anything other than waste money and have a negative impact on close racing. I am not for spec racing but the aero kits were a very expensive boondoggle.
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  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by RHRfan#1 View Post
    I take it that you were a fan of the aero kits, which is fine. but it was a complete waste of time and money, didn't add one single fan, or boost attendance or have any net positive for the series... the universal kits in 2018 will be better for indycar on several factors
    I have no idea, but what do you attribute the small ratings boost seen during the aero kits introduction?
    I liked the aero kit idea, it brought me back as a full time follower. But, I hate how they look, so know I'm looking forward to the new kits based on the renderings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shrm View Post
    They'd have to open up the rules considerably. LeMans has been a standalone race at times in its history but the rules were open enough that regulars from various sports car circuits entered plus a few crazy one-off LeMans entries.
    Slightly related, but back in the early/mid 90's Penske and some of his business partners were kicking around the idea of a one off at MIS (pretty sure but might have been Fontana later in the decade). Bring whatever you want and winner would take home a million. Obviously never came to fruition.

  16. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by BADGER View Post
    Because single make formula racing has shown to be successful time and time again.
    Not that at all . We predicted this do to the process in which this car, chassis, whatever was selected.

    I am not a big fan either of spec racing but this car and the committee that selected it are far from iconic.

    They got it wrong in my opinion.
    RIP Justin! WWJCD

  17. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chips O'Toole View Post
    Slightly related, but back in the early/mid 90's Penske and some of his business partners were kicking around the idea of a one off at MIS (pretty sure but might have been Fontana later in the decade). Bring whatever you want and winner would take home a million. Obviously never came to fruition.
    Do you have any further information on that? I don't recall anything like that being put forth by Penske and/or his business partners.

  18. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by BADGER View Post
    Wait a minute, shouldn't the aero savings have been more than enough to cover the cost of the Honda Fan zone? How many were duped into believing money spent to on aerokits, would be transferred into money spent on league promotion. You have to be incredibly naive to believe the money a manufacture was willing to spend to win would be the same as the money spent to promote the series, but a hell of a lot of people here fell for it.
    American Honda has made several changes in the way it promotes it's racing participation, not just Indycar. Most visible is the fact that the fastest seat in sports contests are gone.

    Overall, Honda is promoting racing in its marketing much more than it has been, and American Honda has more highly visible racing programs in the US than it has ever had (Indycar, IMSA GT3 (and support series), GRC, WC GT3 (and support series), Formula four.

    Next season, Honda will be likely adding TCR Civics in IMSA and PWC as well, along with an IMSA DPI program. So Honda's use of Racing in marketing is growing, not shrinking.

    What you are seeing in the fanzone is a reallocating of marketing dollars. Happens all the time. Most of the time no one notices. The company I work for just moved some money that we were spending in a non-racing sport from a general sponsorship to a participant sponsorship, and no one noticed except those of use who used to work the events.

  19. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullwinkle View Post
    Most visible is the fact that the fastest seat in sports contests are gone.
    Interesting...that was a very cool deal and I can't imagine it cost very much, unless they were paying Mario big dollars. I think the 2-seater is at the races for major domo rides anyway.

  20. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike View Post
    Do you have any further information on that? I don't recall anything like that being put forth by Penske and/or his business partners.
    That's all I remember being told but I'll see if I can get more info.

  21. #111
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    “Chevy is the one that’s pushing it,” Andretti said. “Honda would rather spend the money on promoting the series than spend it on these kits.”
    I’m concerned," Schmidt said. "We’ve been a partner and have been all-in and given them everything they have asked for us. Both manufacturers — 24 months ago — would have rather put this money into a proper TV program. It was a unilateral decision on the league to do this and I never saw a reason from the series why they are doing it; we are just doing it. So far it hasn’t done anything for our team or the series that is measurable.
    Kits are gone, so someone needs to ask Sam and Michael when the increased marketing budgets will kick in from Honda.
    Last edited by BADGER; 06-12-2017 at 07:15 PM.

  22. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Chips O'Toole View Post
    I have no idea, but what do you attribute the small ratings boost seen during the aero kits introduction?
    I liked the aero kit idea, it brought me back as a full time follower. But, I hate how they look, so know I'm looking forward to the new kits based on the renderings.
    the spec car crowd does not operate based upon facts. No use bringing up the ratings increase during the aero kits, nor the decrease once it was announced they were going away

  23. #113
    Maybe Honda is reallocating funds to pour into fixing that embarrassing F1 engine program...
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  24. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by houstonracefan View Post
    the spec car crowd does not operate based upon facts. No use bringing up the ratings increase during the aero kits, nor the decrease once it was announced they were going away
    Correlation does not necessarily equal causation.

    Also, the aerokits are less spec than what we will have net season, but is still on the spec spectrum.

    Non-spec would be multiple chassis manufacturers with a choice of chassis unrelated to one's engine.
    Some fans claim one series or another runs "real race cars." What's everybody else running, fake race cars? :confused:

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  25. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Fury View Post
    Maybe Honda is reallocating funds to pour into fixing that embarrassing F1 engine program...
    See post #101.

  26. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by nascarnation View Post
    The Honda Fan Zone is intended to help sell Honda vehicles and equipment to the public by allowing them to see and experience the hardware up close.
    Somehow this seems like a poor place to cut budget. But I'm sure there's a corps of MBAs who have much more insight into this stuff.
    From my experiences at these, the manufacturers are getting fleeced from Day 1.
    Small Indiana marketing firms suck up to the manufacturers. The firm's owner gets rich. They use cheap local labor and free "interns". The person usually trying to run the show is the truckdriver.

  27. #117
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    As far as I can recall, the Honda Fan Zone has never been at Iowa Speedway. Chevy is the official vehicle/brand of IS, and has always had a display there for all the races, including when they weren't competing in Indycar.

  28. #118
    The Honda fan zone seemed like a big hit at Mid-Ohio last year. Surprised they would ax that.

  29. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jsieczka View Post
    Geely is attempting to reinvent the brand worldwide and they have deep pockets.
    Perhaps they are being romanced by multiple suitors? (Indycar and Formula E)

    http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volvo/9...ic-sports-cars

  30. #120
    If they are cutting back on something like the fan zone, what are the chances Honda is going to exit ICS altogether after their contract expires?

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