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Thread: IndyCar falls short in bid to lure third engine manufacturer

  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Wes350 View Post
    Now this is a very good point...



    Yes I agree costs would be lower - dare I say "cheaper". If Da$$ara did not have a stranglehold on the supply/cost of parts.

    But what do you mean by opening the rule book?

    I see things this way:

    Are the powers that be at ICS willing to front the development costs to own the IP for a new future chassis / aero kits, so that they can allow different suppliers and even teams to make/repair parts on a more "open market" that could drive costs down for everyone.

    i.e. Going to a slightly similar "tightly regulated" spec model in the vein of Nascar.... ???





    I disagree here, "spec" does "lower costs" by controlling them vs. having a more open series like F1 and LMP1.

    All the proof of that you need is to look at the "crazy money" Penske and other teams spend on their damper programs, which is the one thing on the car they are allowed to develop.


    .
    why cannot the series simply go back to the pre DW12 days where the basic chassis was spec, but the wings, suspension, mirrors, etc were open for the teams to develop. You even had 2003 Dallaras vs 2007 Dallaras. I can see a common safety cell for safety purposes, but let the teams do what they want with the rest of the car, just like the pre 2012 days

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by dakinca View Post
    Today during Le Mans, Marshall Pruett said Lamborghini was almost the 3rd engine manufacturer. But they declined beacsue they want to build a prototype to compete with.
    so, we lost an engine manufacture because they also wanted to build their own car?

    Hullman/GeorgeCar cannot get out of their own way. Horrendous management. Even Congress has better management

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by houstonracefan View Post
    why cannot the series simply go back to the pre DW12 days where the basic chassis was spec, but the wings, suspension, mirrors, etc were open for the teams to develop. You even had 2003 Dallaras vs 2007 Dallaras. I can see a common safety cell for safety purposes, but let the teams do what they want with the rest of the car, just like the pre 2012 days
    I think they want all the cars close to each other and pass each other over and over and over again. It's boring. Obviously nobody is showing up in the stands and nobody is watching on TV, but that's the ship they are going down in.

    The pre 2012, pre-DW12 era was much, much better.

  4. #184
    Insider Defender's Avatar
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    Here are a couple of common sense reality checks:

    1. The fact that commentary at a legendary event like Le Mans centered around IndyCar is telling.

    2. I like Marshall and all those guys but they are only a step or two removed from the type of old-ladies-at-a-fence-gossiping that is the norm on forums like this one.

    3. I'm not worked up about Lamborghini. Potential consumers of IndyCar do not buy those. They DO buy Volkswagens and Audis, however. IF, in fact, the sticking point was a competing chassis I am certain creative rules adjustment could occur. IndyCar will not do anything, for better or worse, that jeopardizes its relationship with Dallara, but it seems logical not to have all your eggs in one manufacturer basket.

    We'll see. Pretty cool gossip during Le Mans, however.
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  5. #185
    Insider BADGER's Avatar
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    I guess I missed the Indy talk during the Lemans coverage, but assuming it was there, what is that supposed to tell us?

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by houstonracefan View Post
    so, we lost an engine manufacture because they also wanted to build their own car?

    Hullman/GeorgeCar cannot get out of their own way. Horrendous management. Even Congress has better management
    Not exactly what was said. He said the deal was lost, but Lamborghini would like to do something at a higher level and a DPi might be something they look at.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defender View Post
    1. The fact that commentary at a legendary event like Le Mans centered around IndyCar is telling.

    .
    Here is a common sense reality check.

    Marshall the Indycar reporter was in a studio in Charlotte. Far far away from LeMans.

  8. #188
    Registered User Indyfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2 View Post
    Here is a common sense reality check.

    Marshall the Indycar reporter was in a studio in Charlotte. Far far away from LeMans.
    And was being a real douche to people sending him Twitter questions early this morning.
    A rainy day at the track is better than a sunny day anywhere else.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2 View Post
    Here is a common sense reality check.

    Marshall the Indycar reporter was in a studio in Charlotte. Far far away from LeMans.
    Evidently I must work on leaving no language nuance stone unturned for those prone to picking nits. Would it make you feel better if I changed the word 'at' in point 1 to the word 'about?' Would that make your day go more smoothly? Please, let me know. I am here only to please.

  10. #190
    Radio Le Mans was the stream of choice for me and they said absolutely nothing about Indycar.
    RIP Justin! WWJCD

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Grigson View Post
    Radio Le Mans was the stream of choice for me and they said absolutely nothing about Indycar.
    Maybe it has something to do with one corner named "Indianapolis". I asked about it in the sports car thread but someone here may know. I cannot recall ever hearing a corner named 'Indianapolis' so if anyone can enlighten me I'd appreciate it.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Defender View Post
    <snip>
    I am here only to please.
    If that's really the case I'd be pleased to learn what was said during the 'Indycar commentary'. TIA

  13. #193
    Registered User Thorzdad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fenderless View Post
    I cannot recall ever hearing a corner named 'Indianapolis' so if anyone can enlighten me I'd appreciate it.
    Seriously? That corner has been called "Indianapolis" for as long as I can remember. I'm pretty sure it was already called "Indianapolis" when they filmed the movie LeMans.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
    Seriously? That corner has been called "Indianapolis" for as long as I can remember. I'm pretty sure it was already called "Indianapolis" when they filmed the movie LeMans.
    Sadly, I wasn't joking. Damn...

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defender View Post
    Here are a couple of common sense reality checks:

    1. The fact that commentary at a legendary event like Le Mans centered around IndyCar is telling.
    I am not nit picking. What does the above that you wrote say? And what would somebody reading the above think it said?

    In reality there was no commentary about Indy at LeMans.

    That is all.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by fenderless View Post
    Maybe it has something to do with one corner named "Indianapolis". I asked about it in the sports car thread but someone here may know. I cannot recall ever hearing a corner named 'Indianapolis' so if anyone can enlighten me I'd appreciate it.
    The name is pre WWII; Indianapolis is part of the story of the great Peugeot cars before WWI. It's a slightly banked left like IMS. I've read that the underlayer is brick, but AFAIK the surface has always been asphalt.
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  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Defender View Post
    Here are a couple of common sense reality checks:

    1. The fact that commentary at a legendary event like Le Mans centered around IndyCar is telling.
    I sense the Indy bubble is strong in this one. Unfortunately it's a pretty small bubble.

  18. #198
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    Third engine manufacturer? We don't need no stinking third engine manufacturer.
    "A good rule of thumb, if there's a car ahead of you, try to pass it." -Eddie Cheever

  19. #199
    Registered User Boweimer's Avatar
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    Have potential engine manufactures come out on record as to what they want or why they are not interested?

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Defender View Post
    1. The fact that commentary at a legendary event like Le Mans centered around IndyCar is telling.
    I watched 8-10 hours of LM coverage yesterday and today, and the only references I heard were: (1) the discussion about Lambo considering a LM program after deciding not to do IndyCar; (2) the discussion of Mario Andreitt's resume (i.e., winning the 500); and (3) mentioning why Tony Kanaan was filling in for Sebastien Bourdais. All told, maybe 30 seconds of IndyCar references that I heard, though I'm sure there was some other references that I missed.

    Hardly what I would describe as commentary "centering around IndyCar." Nor do I understand what you think was "telling" about these references.

  21. #201
    Speaking of Le Mans, there were only 5 cars competing in LMP1 ? Seems Le Mans has its own problems.

  22. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by houstonracefan View Post
    so, we lost an engine manufacture because they also wanted to build their own car?

    Hullman/GeorgeCar cannot get out of their own way. Horrendous management. Even Congress has better management
    Ridiculous decision making from the folks on Polco Street in the plaza but all is well. Nothing to see here!
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  23. #203
    Registered User JonnieGStand's Avatar
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    Subaru has a strong presence in Indiana, I am a little surprised they don't want to get in the game

  24. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by ArtVandalay View Post
    Speaking of Le Mans, there were only 5 cars competing in LMP1 ? Seems Le Mans has its own problems.
    The "problem" of two major manufacturers willing to spend $50 million or $100 million each for the purpose of winning one race. They also had a dozen manufacturer-backed entries to win GT Pro, including US entries from Ford and Chevrolet.

  25. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by JonnieGStand View Post
    Subaru has a strong presence in Indiana, I am a little surprised they don't want to get in the game
    They already sell everything they can build for the US. They need to grow other markets, or expand their US product line (which probably would be a long term mistake).

  26. #206
    Registered User Jsieczka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonnieGStand View Post
    Subaru has a strong presence in Indiana, I am a little surprised they don't want to get in the game
    The only factory back racing they have is a single gt300 car and grc entry. Mazda has said IndyCar is too expensive for them and they are bigger then Subaru.

  27. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonnieGStand View Post
    Subaru has a strong presence in Indiana, I am a little surprised they don't want to get in the game
    Subaru has prospered by building a NA market segment of competent performing, well-built, small and middle sized SUVs with awd that "practical" people want to buy. Mostly people that could care less about auto racing. Their commercials feature cute dogs and charitable donations to Leukemia and Lymphoma, Alzheimers, Special Olympics, etc.
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  28. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by nascarnation View Post
    Subaru has prospered by building a NA market segment of competent performing, well-built, small and middle sized SUVs with awd that "practical" people want to buy. Mostly people that could care less about auto racing. Their commercials feature cute dogs and charitable donations to Leukemia and Lymphoma, Alzheimers, Special Olympics, etc.
    Agreed.

    From Subaru's parternship home page:

    "Subaru proudly works with charities and organizations that share our values."

    I wonder what values companies like Subaru, Lamborghini, etc., think Indycar / Indycar Fans possess. Or even, what is their definition of who the average Indycar fan is.

  29. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by ArtVandalay View Post
    Speaking of Le Mans, there were only 5 cars competing in LMP1 ? Seems Le Mans has its own problems.
    The WEC and ACO have problems. IMSA looks awesome this time around with its DPI's. They hit a home run in my opinion and the ACO better wake up soon. They are missing the boat I'm afraid.

  30. #210
    Insider Nigel Red5's Avatar
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    They still claim the manufacturers want LeMans solely for technological development. I can't see how they are really gaining from a $100-150 million expense for essentially one race. Have you seen the 2020 regulations? They "claim" the regs will reduce costs, though I don't see how unless they just plug road technology into a race car even more than now.

    IMHO they will continue to have 1 or two manufacturers in P1 and then a field of customer cars and spec engines and street based sportscars filling the field and doing the actual racing.

    I do prefer the P2 and DPi versions over the P1 classes.

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