Page 9 of 9 FirstFirst 123456789
Results 241 to 260 of 260

Thread: IndyCar falls short in bid to lure third engine manufacturer

  1. #241
    Registered User andy5446's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Fraser, CO/ Indianapolis
    Posts
    295
    Quote Originally Posted by Racing Steward View Post
    Yeah I couldn't help but notice all of these manufacturers lining up to build their own IndyCars the last several years.
    you talking about these last several years that you tell us all that the racing is better than ever every week? because all the people you readily dismiss could tell you that parity means nothing. nothing to prospective new fans, and absolutely nothing to a manufacturer hoping to prove something.

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by nascarnation View Post
    I suppose Lotus was the poster child for that outcome, but the question is did it really hurt them as a brand? Other than p*ssing away a bunch of money....

    If this oft-mentioned Cosworth Indycar engine is just sitting on the shelf waiting for a sugar daddy to CNC mill their name on the cam covers, I'd think the risk level is pretty low. OTOH anybody starting from scratch is going to spend a lot of time and money as Ilmor and HPD have been developing to this spec for nearly a decade now.
    This is why I think it is more likely than not that if a manufacturer does indicate interest, Indycar would go to a NEW or HEAVILY REVISED formula so that the three competitors would be on a more even footing.

    Say Mercedes shows an interest (and I have no knowledge that this is the case). Then the three of them would come up with a significant revision to the existing formula or a new formula.

    Examples of a significant revision would be a change that causes HPD and Ilmor to go back to the drawing board with the existing blocks:

    * New Turbo tech. Maybe one turbo instead of two. Perhaps with variable boost.

    * Smaller displacement V6 (maybe 1.8 or 2 liters) and more boost from one turbo making for a smaller package size and more power.

    * The converse of the above, higher displacement (maybe 2.4 or 2.5 liters) with lower boost.

    * Some kind of Hybrid tech (yes I know this would have little impact on ovals. Just using as an example).


    Examples of an entirely new formula might be:

    * Adopting the Super Formula/Super GT specs (4-cylinder)

    * Adopting GRC or WRC formula (4-cylinder)

    * Adopting some kind of "stock-block" formula.


    With as much development as HPD and Ilmor have in the current formula, no one is going to have a reasonable chance to catch up if the formula remains the same.

  3. #243
    Registered User Nigel Red5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    On Chesapeake Bay
    Posts
    12,432
    Blog Entries
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by ColdSpiderGT View Post
    as said earlier, Lambo doesnt really fit with Indycar so I'm not exactly bummed they didnt get signed.

    I hope the Volvo rumor wasnt just smoke. It really makes since having them here and they have lots of potential connections to the series now.
    Considering this week's announcement that they are dropping 100% ICE powered cars by 2019, How would their involvement in indycar have made sense?

    Maybe the rumoured 1.6L single KERS formula for F1 and possibly indycar will infact draw several new manufacturers.

  4. #244
    Registered User Nigel Red5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    On Chesapeake Bay
    Posts
    12,432
    Blog Entries
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveK51 View Post
    Just now Marshall P on Mid Week Motorsport suggested that Lambo backed out because Indycar and the Indy 500 was too big of a stage with too much focus if things don't go well, such that success or failure in IMSA would not draw the same level of focus. So they are taking a less risky approach by backing away from Indycar.
    Seeing a Lamborghini being beaten by a lowly mass market brand like Honda or Chevy would be humiliating. Spare me the NSX/Corvette argument.

  5. #245
    To attract a new manufacturer, the engine formula will no doubt have to change. Nobody in their right mind would join the party given the several year head start that both Chevrolet and Honda have. The only compromise would be to allow a different spec to compete with the current. Indy needs to return to the days of being a proving ground for competing ideas, etc. Spec has produced closer racing but that has not in any way translated into popularity, tv ratings, sponsorship dollars or increased manufacturer interest.
    Counting down to my 31st Greatest Spectacle in Racing, follow me on twitter @NDCar for photos, trivia and more about the Indianapolis 500.

    Autosoft Dealer Management System - Highest rated Automotive DMS 2014, 2015, 2016 by Driving Sales. See what all the buzz is about - www.AutosoftDMS.com

  6. #246
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Des Moines, Iowa
    Posts
    1,446
    http://autoweek.com/article/indycar/...evrolet-series

    Not much here, just saying that the earliest a 3rd OEM could be here is 2020. won't identify who, but apparently have had a lot of good meetings. I'll believe it when I see a third OEM actually announced, until then I'll keep hoping.
    World's biggest Ryan Hunter-Reay fan!

    Born in 1992, I've been lucky enough to have attended every '500 since 2000. Milwaukee (RIP) from 2003 - 2015, Iowa 2007-present, Long Beach 2016, Road America 1998-2007, 2016-present,
    Michigan 500 (RIP): 1997-2001 and Mid-Ohio in 2008

  7. #247
    Insider Jakester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    20,275
    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel Red5 View Post
    Seeing a Lamborghini being beaten by a lowly mass market brand like Honda or Chevy would be humiliating. Spare me the NSX/Corvette argument.
    Yeah, it's an old post but just for grins.

    IMSA GTLM
    That lowly mass market Chevy Corvette does pretty well against upmarket competitors Ferrari, BMW, Porsche. Of course Lamborghini doesn't participate in GTLM. Can't really use WEC GTE, Corvette has done well at Le Mans, but again no Lambo in GTE.
    So that leaves IMSA GTD (and various GT3 series): Lamborghini was 6th in manufacturer standings, below Ferrari, Porsche, Mercedes, Audi and.....ACURA. OTOH, the Lambos did quite well in Blancpain GT3.
    BAN SHREDDED CHEESE! MAKE AMERICA GRATE AGAIN!

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by RHRfan#1 View Post
    http://autoweek.com/article/indycar/...evrolet-series

    Not much here, just saying that the earliest a 3rd OEM could be here is 2020. won't identify who, but apparently have had a lot of good meetings. I'll believe it when I see a third OEM actually announced, until then I'll keep hoping.
    There's a big difference between good meetings and a $20 million commitment.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Jakester View Post
    Yeah, it's an old post but just for grins.

    IMSA GTLM
    That lowly mass market Chevy Corvette does pretty well against upmarket competitors Ferrari, BMW, Porsche. Of course Lamborghini doesn't participate in GTLM. Can't really use WEC GTE, Corvette has done well at Le Mans, but again no Lambo in GTE.
    So that leaves IMSA GTD (and various GT3 series): Lamborghini was 6th in manufacturer standings, below Ferrari, Porsche, Mercedes, Audi and.....ACURA. OTOH, the Lambos did quite well in Blancpain GT3.
    A Corvette is not lowly car, nor is an NSX, but both brands' images are mass market cars, not the halo cars that run in IMSA/LeMans and are marketed as such.

    The point is a Lambo vs. a Civic or Cruze image is not valuable to the Lambo image. Although Renault and Honda competed successfully (not recently for Honda) for years against Ferrari in F1.

  10. #250
    Insider Jakester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    20,275
    Quote Originally Posted by Openracer View Post
    A Corvette is not lowly car, nor is an NSX, but both brands' images are mass market cars, not the halo cars that run in IMSA/LeMans and are marketed as such.

    The point is a Lambo vs. a Civic or Cruze image is not valuable to the Lambo image. Although Renault and Honda competed successfully (not recently for Honda) for years against Ferrari in F1.
    Ahh, but look under the bonnet and we find Lamborghini is owned by the leader in mass market cars.....Volkswagen (thru Audi)

  11. #251
    Registered User Nigel Red5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    On Chesapeake Bay
    Posts
    12,432
    Blog Entries
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by Openracer View Post
    A Corvette is not lowly car, nor is an NSX, but both brands' images are mass market cars, not the halo cars that run in IMSA/LeMans and are marketed as such.

    The point is a Lambo vs. a Civic or Cruze image is not valuable to the Lambo image. Although Renault and Honda competed successfully (not recently for Honda) for years against Ferrari in F1.
    Which indeed was my point and why brands like ferrari and Lamborghini make no sense competing against Chevy and Honda. If FCA or VWAG ever decides to participate in Indycar, it won’t be with their halo brands.

  12. #252
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Killeen,Texas
    Posts
    636
    Quote Originally Posted by Bullwinkle View Post
    There's a big difference between good meetings and a $20 million commitment.
    There in lies the problem, it should not cost that much money. IndyCar was the most popular when the motors were production based. Reliability was crap, but production motors have come along way since then.

  13. #253
    There is no substitute. Spike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Driving the point home
    Posts
    23,972
    Quote Originally Posted by Longhorn View Post
    IndyCar was the most popular when the motors were production based.
    When was that, exactly?
    "I would really like to go to NASCAR. I really enjoy NASCAR and if I could be there in a couple of years that's where I'd want to be." - Jeff Gordon (after testing a Formula Super Vee)

  14. #254
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Killeen,Texas
    Posts
    636
    Quote Originally Posted by Spike View Post
    When was that, exactly?
    Ok, popular is relative, but when Indycar debuted its first gen car, it had production motors.

  15. #255
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Edmond OK
    Posts
    2,663
    Quote Originally Posted by Bullwinkle View Post
    There's a big difference between good meetings and a $20 million commitment.
    You think there were any meetings? c'mon.

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by LowRyter View Post
    You think there were any meetings? c'mon.
    Sure, why wouldn't there be? Indycar isn't the boogeyman.

    Jay Frye is the best Indycar has had in awhile...no-BS type of guy. What he has implemented with the new car is a lead-up to hopefully obtaining a 3rd manufacturer.
    "Any time that I can be out at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, you're going to see a smile on my face." - Dan Wheldon

    "It's crazy how the Indianapolis Motor Speedway can make you so emotional. I went from the highest of highs to the lowest of lows in less than 24 hours." - Alex Tagliani

  17. #257
    There is no substitute. Spike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Driving the point home
    Posts
    23,972
    Quote Originally Posted by Longhorn View Post
    Ok, popular is relative, but when Indycar debuted its first gen car, it had production motors.
    Do you mean when the IRL debuted the first generation cars?

    Those weren't "production" engines.

  18. #258
    Insider Unzerdog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Richmond
    Posts
    3,730
    It did produce an off sound.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat" -Teddy Roosevelt

  19. #259
    Retired curmudgeon
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Brownsburg, IN
    Posts
    13,298
    Quote Originally Posted by Spike View Post
    Do you mean when the IRL debuted the first generation cars?

    Those weren't "production" engines.
    Not in the sense that the hard parts were used in mass produced vehicles.
    But the mfgrs did provide "kits" of components that were used by a variety of competing builders to produce engines that could be purchased.
    Get ready for what's comin'. More speed, more horsepower. More of everything...... Doc Hudson

  20. #260

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •