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Thread: Silly season. Beginning early this year.

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by vintage View Post
    Looked kind of like Sage pushed the other guy off just prior to that.
    Sage did indeed force the car to the edge of the track (which I do not approve of, btw), but he did not put Katherine into the grass / dirt.
    Last edited by shakespeare; 08-28-2017 at 06:36 PM.

  2. #62
    http://www.racer.com/indycar/item/14...r-move-in-2018

    Kaiser and Juncos considering a run using Scholarship money for Indycar
    Silly Season scorecard and Where are the Indy 500 winning cars! http://inrd.gotdns.com/indystuff/

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by vintage View Post
    Looked kind of like Sage pushed the other guy off just prior to that.
    For the record, the other "guy" was Katherine Legge.

    Would have been interesting had he tried to do that to Andy Lally.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by aaron5572 View Post
    I'm pretty sure Honda supplies a significant portion of his salary.
    If you believe what people like me say online, Honda pays for half of Alonzo's salary (which would be more than what HPD currently spends on Indycar, by the way), plus $100 million to McLaren plus free engines.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by shakespeare View Post
    Sage did indeed force the car to the edge of the track (which I do not approve of, btw), but he did not for the car into the grass / dirt.
    Sage bumped Kat to the edge of the track. Kat moved over on Sage, but left him a full lane on the track and was at least a foot away when Sage over-reacted and went off track. 22 second mark in the below video.


  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaparral4 View Post
    Are you sure about that??? Robin seemed to indicate Charlie's sponsorship situation might be all that secure last night.
    I've read rumours about Novo Nordisk pulling the plug earlier in the season but now that has calmed down a bit. I assume they would still bankroll him.

    I didn't quite get the full scoop from Miller. He talked about Ganassi getting 4 cars back next season with 2 new drivers or scaling back to three with two new ones?

    Btw, looks like Karam is still pulling the dirty tricks. This smells poison and a potential disaster in IndyCar. I hope he keeps his circus act in the sports cars

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by ptt View Post
    Sage bumped Kat to the edge of the track. Kat moved over on Sage, but left him a full lane on the track and was at least a foot away when Sage over-reacted and went off track. 22 second mark in the below video.

    That's the kind of thing that ends careers. WTF?

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Vassago View Post
    IBtw, looks like Karam is still pulling the dirty tricks. This smells poison and a potential disaster in IndyCar. I hope he keeps his circus act in the sports cars
    It's one thing when an amateur pulls a stunt like that. Another entirely when a supposed factory driver tries to take out another factory driver.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Bullwinkle View Post
    It's one thing when an amateur pulls a stunt like that. Another entirely when a supposed factory driver tries to take out another factory driver.
    Reckless is still the first word that springs to my mind when thinking about Karam. This latest incident tells me he's still a massive safety hazard. And this approach simply doesn't suit IndyCars, not in the post-Justin Wilson accident era where people are sitting on pins & needles to work around the otherwise horrible halo concept.

    NASCAR would suit Karam best, they've got their "let 'em have it" policy he would thrive on IMO. But I hope he stays away as far as possible from IndyCar.

  10. #70
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    Sage and Kat! Two TF favorites!

  11. #71
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    Take a look at the VIR track map. This incident occurred at turns 14 and 15: 14, a left, is quite quick but 15, the right hander, tightens up a great deal, and is off-camber. If you overcook it you will be very slow for the immediate left that follows.

    Coming at you on the camera, I see Legge on the right side of the track, drag racing Karam. They are about even, and even though Sage is far left and on the racing line, Katherine is inside and thus the upcoming turn, a slight left-hander into a hard braking right-hander, is HER corner and she has the inside line. Still, in the span of about a half-second to a second, Katherine comes over hard anyway, which SK obviously reacted to, putting his wheels off. After he rejoins he is still carrying a lot of speed into the corner, overtaking her in T14 despite all the dirt on his tires. He cannot get the car stopped in time to carry speed properly through T15, which is nearly a 90-degree right, that he is very slow on exit, while KL takes a more traditional line, carrying normal speed--right into the back of Karam. What Sage does after that is subject to debate, but Legge's teammate Andy Lally admitted Legge hit him up the back as retaliation.

    I see this as both misbehaving, but Katherine more so. Still, the optics for Sage just keep getting worse

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by shakespeare View Post
    Take a look at the VIR track map. This incident occurred at turns 14 and 15: 14, a left, is quite quick but 15, the right hander, tightens up a great deal, and is off-camber. If you overcook it you will be very slow for the immediate left that follows.

    Coming at you on the camera, I see Legge on the right side of the track, drag racing Karam. They are about even, and even though Sage is far left and on the racing line, Katherine is inside and thus the upcoming turn, a slight left-hander into a hard braking right-hander, is HER corner and she has the inside line. Still, in the span of about a half-second to a second, Katherine comes over hard anyway, which SK obviously reacted to, putting his wheels off. After he rejoins he is still carrying a lot of speed into the corner, overtaking her in T14 despite all the dirt on his tires. He cannot get the car stopped in time to carry speed properly through T15, which is nearly a 90-degree right, that he is very slow on exit, while KL takes a more traditional line, carrying normal speed--right into the back of Karam. What Sage does after that is subject to debate, but Legge's teammate Andy Lally admitted Legge hit him up the back as retaliation.

    I see this as both misbehaving, but Katherine more so. Still, the optics for Sage just keep getting worse
    Not the way the stewards saw it. Stop and hold plus 60 is a pretty severe penalty. And we should not lose sight of the fact that these are million-dollar-plus factory racing programs.

  13. #73

  14. #74
    Sage is about to be blacklisted in all series.Maybe if he keep his mouth shut or stay off Twitter people would give him the benefit of doubt.

  15. #75
    Well, if he brake-tested her, then she failed the test... Bring her back next year in IndyCar too!
    Nastalgia & headache.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by nospheratez View Post
    Well, if he brake-tested her, then she failed the test... Bring her back next year in IndyCar too!
    She has failed a bunch of tests with HPD/Acura this season. There is clearly a red mist about her eyes at times, as there is with Sage.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by nospheratez View Post
    Well, if he brake-tested her, then she failed the test... Bring her back next year in IndyCar too!
    Legge has been a loose cannon. At Road America she wrecked so bad they missed qualifying. Then during the yellow to the Lambo was just bad. I think she is coming out of this way too clean. She needs to shoulder much more blame. Why is Lally involved when he wasn't even driving at the time? Can't she stand up for herself? Lame...

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMCguy View Post
    Legge has been a loose cannon. At Road America she wrecked so bad they missed qualifying. Then during the yellow to the Lambo was just bad. I think she is coming out of this way too clean. She needs to shoulder much more blame. Why is Lally involved when he wasn't even driving at the time? Can't she stand up for herself? Lame...
    They're teammates....

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikemat5150 View Post
    They're teammates....
    She basically gets another free pass to act like this again because no penalty and not being held accountable. I realize she ended her own race and there was no way to penalize her. But she will be an issue again with another driver on another track. Sage has been pretty clean all year and including Indy 500.

  20. #80
    Cautiously Optimistic drewdawg727's Avatar
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    I'm sorry, how did we get here? I fail to see a single thing that Katherine did that was out of line in that video. She crowded Sage a bit perhaps, yes, but it was her corner that she was setting up for, no?
    The punk drives around her and then proceeds to slam on the brakes. Where is Katherine wrong in this clip whatsoever?

  21. #81
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    So is this the grid at the moment? (One man's take.)

    Penske Racing - likely 3 cars - Newgarden, Pagenaud, Power
    Chip Ganassi Racing - anywhere from 2 to 4 cars although 4 is doubtful - Dixon certain, Kanaan and Chilton will likely not be on the team, Gutierrez in a 3rd car?
    Andretti Autosport - likely 3 or 4 cars - Andretti, Hunter-Reay, Michael would like to keep Rossi, depends on if this team stays with Honda or goes to Chevy
    Rahal Letterman Lanigan Racing - 2 cars - Rahal, Sato
    Schmidt Peterson Motorsports - 1 or 2 cars, probably 2 - Hinchcliffe? and ?
    A.J. Foyt Enterprises - 1 or 2 cars, probably 2 - ???
    Ed Carpenter Racing - 2 cars - Carpenter on ovals, road courses up for debate and so is the full-time car (I kind of expect Pigot in the #21 next year)
    Dale Coyne Racing - 2 cars - Bourdais, 2nd car is the king of TBAs

    Harding Racing - 1 or 2 cars, I'm thinking 1 - Chaves
    Carlin? - anywhere from 0 to 2 cars - Chilton would be a definite if the team takes the grid
    Juncos Racing - anywhere from 0 to 1 car - Kyle Kaiser using his sponsorship money here, question then is whether this team is full-time or not

    Only guys in the series presently I see Ganassi wanting to make a play at picking up are Hinchcliffe and Rossi.

    Drivers on the Endangered/Indy-only List:

    -Mikhail Aleshin - already extinct
    -Helio Castroneves - pretty telegraphed, but I'll be pretty sad
    -J.R. Hildebrand - other than Foyt, not sure if Carpenter drops him if any other team would consider him outside of an Indy-only deal
    -Charlie Kimball - I know he has the Chilton connection and maybe going to Carlin with him, but I've also heard the money has dried up, which if so, why do people act like he is automatic for a ride?
    -Ed Jones - performance has suffered post-Indianapolis, only in the car for having the Lights championship money, which disappears come 2018
    -Carlos Munoz and Conor Daly - have to think they could warrant another year, but...

    Drivers that could become full-time:

    -Spencer Pigot - see Ed Carpenter Racing above.
    -Kyle Kaiser - reigning Indy Lights champion.
    -Esteban Gutierrez - Mexican F1 veteran bringing money, car owner's dream come true. If that's the case, I also don't see him being with Dale Coyne. Best finish of 13th in 7 races by the way.
    -Santi Urrutia. If it's not this coming year, I don't see it ever happening for him.
    -Zach Veach. Heard either on Trackside or Marshall Pruett's podcast he has a lot of sponsorship money lined up.
    -Felix Rosenqvist. Ganassi reportedly high on him.
    -Random other veterans: Sebastian Saavedra, guys like Oriol Servia or Alex Tagliani I could see being useful to a Juncos or Carlin or Harding as a mentor/old hand that knows what he's doing.

  22. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn View Post
    I was listening to the tv feed at the track last night. Best parts are always during the commercial breaks. Tracy said something after the Power crash that made me laugh and laugh, however I can't repeat it on a family forum! But during one of the breaks someone brought up Sage. They were joking around and one of them said that Ed had contacted Sage about next year which prompted the other one to say, oh great that's all they will be talking about on Track Forum. Again, they were just joking as Bell dared Robin to go down and ask Ed if he had talked to Sage and then they all laughed. But it was obvious that one of them (can't remember whom) is a Sage fanboy.
    My wife who tolerates me watching auto racing and going to races more than being an actual fan herself, is a fan of Sage. She asked me before we went to Gateway if Sage was racing and then why wasn't he.

    Kid has speed and can go, just needs to be restrained on crashing. The Dario comment on how Sage wouldn't listen is damning, but he was all of 19 or 20 years old. It's not that surprising for 19 or 20-year-olds that they don't listen. I can tell Max Verstappen doesn't do a good job of listening just from hearing his radio conversations during F1 races. He's too good and young a talent to be lost to sportscars or NASCAR. (And if he becomes a star in NASCAR, there will be page after page of threads on how the Indycar owners were idiots for not hiring him.) I hope the best for him, and if I owned a team and could afford it, he's the guy I'd hire because I could get him pretty cheap.

  23. #83
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    Do we have ANY moderators around here????
    "If your car was a dog, then you had to figure it out and test your own limits. And we didn't go to a wind tunnel – we did it in the first turn at Indianapolis."

  24. #84
    Cautiously Optimistic drewdawg727's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Privateer View Post
    (And if he becomes a star in NASCAR, there will be page after page of threads on how the Indycar owners were idiots for not hiring him.) I hope the best for him, and if I owned a team and could afford it, he's the guy I'd hire because I could get him pretty cheap.
    Wouldn't mind if he goes to NASCAR, honestly. Won't hear any griping from me. He definitely has the mentality and demeanor to race in that series and probably be successful (not like Daneeka)

  25. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by drewdawg727 View Post
    Wouldn't mind if he goes to NASCAR, honestly. Won't hear any griping from me. He definitely has the mentality and demeanor to race in that series and probably be successful (not like Daneeka)
    Indycar needs guys that can be stars and draw fans. And owners have to take chances on them. Josef Newgarden when he clinches this season's title can become the face of this series and be a crossover star. Especially when you look at NASCAR and all their crossover stars are old or retiring. Here's a guy that got to the top of the mountain and he didn't buy his ride, didn't get to where he was based on nepotism, he got to where he was because he was just that good and due to the efforts of only 3 people: Newgarden himself as a driver, and Sarah Fisher and Ed Carpenter for taking a chance on him. If Sarah Fisher never gave him a ride, Newgarden wouldn't be at Penske now or on the verge of winning a championship, he would probably be lost to the Indycar Series altogether. And I look at Newgarden and I see a guy that could sell tickets, get more sponsors and money into the sport. Scott Dixon, bless his heart, all-time great driver, but he's never in his career drawn fans to want to buy a ticket and go to the racetrack. We need more Newgardens in this series. I think Sage can be that, he has potential in my eyes. Do all guys with potential pan out? No, they don't. But I want him to have an opportunity to prove me wrong.

    And in his 12 races with Ganassi in 2015 he had a 3rd, a 5th, and was leading Pocono late before he crashed. That's better results than either Charlie Kimball or Max Chilton have accomplished in the 2016 and 2017 seasons for Ganassi in 31 total races (so 19 extra), and Kimball and Chilton will likely be in the series in 2018 because of the power of money.

  26. #86
    Cautiously Optimistic drewdawg727's Avatar
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    The big difference here is attitude and motivation.

    Newgarden is an all-American good looking nice guy always with a smile on his face and a lot of charisma. Always looks to the bright side of things.
    Karam is pretty much a suburban hoodrat who doesn't smile and portrays himself as entitled and arrogant. Has tried to be molded in to a Newgarden type individual, but on the record for not wanting to listen.

    Both have talent, both have the opportunity to have a good racing career, but there is a HUGE difference in the two people that you are trying to mold in to the same person and it just simply doesn't work.

    NASCAR is fully laden with "bad boys" that Karam fits in to absolutely perfectly.

  27. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by drewdawg727 View Post
    The big difference here is attitude and motivation.

    Newgarden is an all-American good looking nice guy always with a smile on his face and a lot of charisma. Always looks to the bright side of things.
    Karam is pretty much a suburban hoodrat who doesn't smile and portrays himself as entitled and arrogant. Has tried to be molded in to a Newgarden type individual, but on the record for not wanting to listen.

    Both have talent, both have the opportunity to have a good racing career, but there is a HUGE difference in the two people that you are trying to mold in to the same person and it just simply doesn't work.

    NASCAR is fully laden with "bad boys" that Karam fits in to absolutely perfectly.
    Kyle Busch has a pretty good-sized fanbase.

    And he was 20! Max Verstappen is a month away from 20 right now and is entitled, arrogant, unlike Sage a product of nepotism, and he gets treated like the 2nd coming by some race teams in F1.

    Racing at the moment is desperate for personalities. Helio, has a personality, crowd loves him. TK, has a personality, crowd loves him. Scott Dixon, rarely shows he has a personality, crowd respects him but doesn't love him (or hate him), and it hurts the whole series financially. Why are we trying to punish drivers for actually showing there's more to them than just being a walking talking billboard? Although my trumping up of Sage has more to deal with his driving than anything. If I had to find an analogy for him I'd say a young Paul Tracy, who no less than Roger Penske let do OTJ training.

  28. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by beej View Post
    Isn't Alonso a McLaren driver? The better question is does McLaren want Honda.... ?
    Honda is trying to keep Alonso happy which is why there was a motivation to run him at Indy this year. That's why they approached Rahal first and not Andretti. It's honda money, not Michael's history with McLaren that got things going.

    Looking at the situation now I think Alonso coming to Indycar is even more of a possibility. He has no where to go in Formula 1 and despite Honda's efforts/promises for a better engine may not be enough for him to stay in a McLaren for the year. While the program might very well be better its probably still 2 years or more before they are competitive with Mercedes and Ferrari (if ever) race in race out.

  29. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaparral4 View Post
    Honda is trying to keep Alonso happy which is why there was a motivation to run him at Indy this year. That's why they approached Rahal first and not Andretti. It's honda money, not Michael's history with McLaren that got things going.

    Looking at the situation now I think Alonso coming to Indycar is even more of a possibility. He has no where to go in Formula 1 and despite Honda's efforts/promises for a better engine may not be enough for him to stay in a McLaren for the year. While the program might very well be better its probably still 2 years or more before they are competitive with Mercedes and Ferrari (if ever) race in race out.
    If you were McLaren which Honda Indycar team would you choose for the 500? The one that had won 2 of the last three 500's or one that had never won the 500?

  30. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Privateer View Post
    And he was 20! Max Verstappen is a month away from 20 right now and is entitled, arrogant, unlike Sage a product of nepotism, and he gets treated like the 2nd coming by some race teams in F1.
    Surely that has nothing to do with Verstappen actually being fast, it's just a conspiracy against poor innocent American drivers.

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