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Thread: Helio Got a Bumb Deal

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by castronevesfan3 View Post
    Maybe you should read Helio's book as well, than you'll know Helio handled it appropriate as well, just in a different way than James did.
    maybe I should, because that's the main reason i have never cheered for Helio.
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  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by RHRfan#1 View Post
    maybe I should, because that's the main reason i have never cheered for Helio.
    I seriously recommend you to read the book, you won't regret it.
    IndyCar fan4ever.

  3. #33
    Registered User Djski442's Avatar
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    I can't believe the number of of people out there that hate Helio for what happened to Greg, its a shame. He had nothing to do with it.
    I like Ren and chevy. I don't care much for djski. That's my 'scientific' poll of one. - -Mannishboy-

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Djski442 View Post
    I can't believe the number of of people out there that hate Helio for what happened to Greg, its a shame. He had nothing to do with it.
    Exactly.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djski442 View Post
    I can't believe the number of of people out there that hate Helio for what happened to Greg, its a shame. He had nothing to do with it.
    must be talking about somebody else. I never hated Helio, I just never cheered for him.

  6. #36
    Helio had nothing to do with Greg's death, just as Hildebrand had nothing to with Dan's.

    Helio was absolutely the best choice for Penske after Greg died. Right after it was announced that Greg had passed away, I thought that RP would get Helio if he could.

    Helio has been a huge credit to the sport.

    I don't feel that he's getting a bum deal. If RP was cutting back to 3 cars, HCN was the man to cut; that's just racing biz reality.

    As for a send-off, I think an Indy 500 run is a pretty darn good one. And if he wins it (and he might well do so), it probably will NOT be the send-off!!

  7. #37
    Registered User Djski442's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mainemandean View Post
    Helio had nothing to do with Greg's death, just as Hildebrand had nothing to with Dan's.

    Helio was absolutely the best choice for Penske after Greg died. Right after it was announced that Greg had passed away, I thought that RP would get Helio if he could.

    Helio has been a huge credit to the sport.

    I don't feel that he's getting a bum deal. If RP was cutting back to 3 cars, HCN was the man to cut; that's just racing biz reality.

    As for a send-off, I think an Indy 500 run is a pretty darn good one. And if he wins it (and he might well do so), it probably will NOT be the send-off!!
    Its as if you're speaking on my behalf. I feel exactly the same about this as you do.

  8. #38
    It's dawned on me how strong Penske Indycar team is.
    Castroneves and Montoya were the weakest links in the lineup!
    These two could be the lead driver of every other team except Ganassi.
    Rest in peace, Dan Wheldon 1978 - 2011

  9. #39
    Registered User Nigel Red5's Avatar
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    from appearances, Penske's basically been footing the bill for the 4th car. He'd said all along he was cutting back to 3. Who else was it going to be? Helio's over 40, probably still making the same amount as he was in Indycar full time, still has his Penske ride at IMS with all of the team data to share for the new car, has a full time ride in what appears to be a very fun Acura DPi sportscar to drive and probably a few more weeks a year to spend with his family. I certainly didn't need a Farewell tour, and honestly, the writing has been on the wall all season. He had his Farewell tour IMHO.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by raskav View Post
    It's dawned on me how strong Penske Indycar team is.
    Castroneves and Montoya were the weakest links in the lineup!
    These two could be the lead driver of every other team except Ganassi.
    I wouldn't say weakest, just oldest.

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by mainemandean View Post
    Helio had nothing to do with Greg's death, just as Hildebrand had nothing to with Dan's.

    Helio was absolutely the best choice for Penske after Greg died. Right after it was announced that Greg had passed away, I thought that RP would get Helio if he could.

    Helio has been a huge credit to the sport.

    I don't feel that he's getting a bum deal. If RP was cutting back to 3 cars, HCN was the man to cut; that's just racing biz reality.

    As for a send-off, I think an Indy 500 run is a pretty darn good one. And if he wins it (and he might well do so), it probably will NOT be the send-off!!
    Perhaps I was a little callous in my posts about Greg and Helio. Of course, Helio had nothing to do with the 1999 tragedy. Roger did pick the correct driver to fit the team, and it has been quite the successful partnership. But what I find outrageous is the fact that the original poster thinks Roger's is doing Helio some great disservice. It's been a good run, but all things come to an end.

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Djski442 View Post
    I can't believe the number of of people out there that hate Helio for what happened to Greg, its a shame. He had nothing to do with it.
    Who said they hate him? That's silly. Just simply pointing out how he ended up with Roger to begin with. He had an opportunity that he earned, took it, and it's been a successful partnership.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel Red5 View Post
    I wouldn't say weakest, just oldest.
    Really who would u rate under Castroneves?
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by carl_fisher_78 View Post
    Who said they hate him? That's silly. Just simply pointing out how he ended up with Roger to begin with. He had an opportunity that he earned, took it, and it's been a successful partnership.
    I've dealt with people hate Helio for that reason.

  15. #45
    If the IMSA season goes well, I don't think Helio can moan too much.

    If they get beat up by Cadillacs all year, it will sting a bit more.

    As far as his career overall, he has been very fortunate.

  16. #46
    Registered User Nigel Red5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Paff View Post
    Really who would u rate under Castroneves?
    Notice that I said neither Juan nor Helio was THE weak link, but they are both clearly the oldest and closest to the end of their driving career. If you want me to pick one, I"d say Juan's motivation and consistency probably puts him a little under Helio. Juan has always seemed like he gets bored. Unless they decide to retire from Indycars at an early age, all three have many more years to drive an Indycar. I agree both Juan and Helio would continue to be championship contenders in indycar, but both will also be formidable drivers in IMSA, and I wouldn't call either of them the weaker of the drivers in their respective cars. Penske has to have some form of a youth movement, and Josef showed their choice to sign him was correct last season.

  17. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel Red5 View Post
    I wouldn't say weakest, just oldest.
    I would say weakest: Power 2014 champion average championship finish 2.6 (.22 wins per race), Simon Pagenaud 2016 Champion average championship finish 4.7(.14 wins per race), Josef 2017 Champion (.24 wins per race), Helio no championships average championship finish 4.2 (.1 wins per race lifetime / .06 wins per race in the last 7 years).

    **all stats are based only on time with Penske.
    Last edited by Jsieczka; 01-11-2018 at 02:04 PM.

  18. #48
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    I personally think Helio's move to sportscars was as much financial as it was a driver performance decision on Roger's behalf. Finding sponsors is getting more difficult and with all the accomplishments Helio has I wouldn't be surprised if he was getting paid the most out of all the Penske Indycar drivers. I also believe that's why Montoya was let go as well - for financial reasons. Maybe Acura said - "Roger we want you to run our team and if you add Helio we'll pay for his contract as well!". I'm not saying that's what happened but it's possible.

    All I can say is that Helio had a great career in Indycar and with all the young drivers moving up its understandable why Roger did what he did. I know many fans are upset that he's no longer racing full time but he is still racing. I'm sure he'll be part of the Penske organization for many years to come.
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  19. #49
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    I think Helio would have continued FT had the Acura team not begun. RP is a BILLIONAIRE who spends whatever he wants on his racing teams. The fact that they almost hired Graham Rahal to replace him indicates that RP (and perhaps Honda) wanted HCN with Acura more than Chevy/Roger wanted him FT in IndyCar. In the end, they opted to shutter the #3 car but they were considering running it without Helio.
    "If your car was a dog, then you had to figure it out and test your own limits. And we didn't go to a wind tunnel – we did it in the first turn at Indianapolis."

  20. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by rebelman2006 View Post
    Indy Car should have persuaded Roger to allow Helio a goodbye tour season for his own benefit and for the fans.
    What do you think the series could/should have done to persuade Roger Penske to set up this, "goodbye tour season," exactly?
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  21. #51
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    Castroneves under-performed at Penske for several years.. He could/should have been gone after the 2011 season IMO

    Helio has lived off his Indy 500 victories for years

  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by carl_fisher_78 View Post
    I'll stick to my opinion that Greg was the better racer, but you can't argue Helio got the ride because of Greg's death. No one is saying Helio isn't a good driver, what most of us are saying is that the original poster is being emotional and over dramatic.
    Quote Originally Posted by RHRfan#1 View Post
    correct me if im wrong... Greg Moore was signed to drive for Penske starting in 2000.... then he dies, and Helio takes the spot. So how did Helio not get the ride because of Greg's death? That's literally how it happened
    You need to go back and read carl_fisher_78's post (#15) more closely, RHRfan#1. You completely misunderstood what he said. Check out his prior post (#9) and you'll see what I mean.

  23. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike View Post
    You need to go back and read carl_fisher_78's post (#15) more closely, RHRfan#1. You completely misunderstood what he said. Check out his prior post (#9) and you'll see what I mean.
    you're correct, i did misunderstand it. after i replied i noticed it. good catch

  24. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Paff View Post
    Castroneves under-performed at Penske for several years.. He could/should have been gone after the 2011 season IMO

    Helio has lived off his Indy 500 victories for years
    He just missed out on the championship in 2013 and 2014 and was a championship contender as well in 2015 and last year. Hélio hardly underperformed at Team Penske.

  25. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by castronevesfan3 View Post
    He just missed out on the championship in 2013 and 2014 and was a championship contender as well in 2015 and last year. Hélio hardly underperformed at Team Penske.
    Factually I agree with you. I also know that he quite honestly should have won the championship several times, but just didn't get the job done for a variety of reasons. 2011 was his worst year by far and it appeared he was slowing down so I can see why Paff would say/think this. Thankfully Roger was patient with him and loyal to him for delivering Roger 3 '500 wins that he earned another chance to prove his worth and you could argue that he sure did!

    Having said that, I at least just got the sense Helio was the weakest link on Team Penske since 2010, when they introduced Will Power, then added Montoya, then added Pagenaud, then added Newgarden. But Helio was still deserving of the seat because he was still quick, still winning races, or in contention to win races and lost several due to poor strategy. And his 3 '500 wins matter a lot to RP obviously so I'm sure that had something to do with it.

  26. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp View Post
    When did Helio win his fourth?
    Around the same time "bum" got a b stuck on the end.

  27. #57
    This is a bumb thread
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  28. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by castronevesfan3 View Post
    He just missed out on the championship in 2013 and 2014 and was a championship contender as well in 2015 and last year. Hélio hardly underperformed at Team Penske.
    In comparison to his current teammates he has underperformed. Power has 1 championship and 4 2nd places, his worst finish was 5th in points. Pagenaud 11th, 1st, and 2nd. Most likely Power if he stays with Penske will easily be Penske's winningest Indycar driver as he is already tied for 2nd with Mears and one short of Helio. Mears needed 14 season and Helio 18 season to get to that point, Power needed 8 and Josef is on his way to also getting up to that range. In 8 years as teammates he has finished behind Power 6 times (2/8), Pagenaud 1/3, Newgarden 0/1, Briscoe 3/5, Hornish, Jr. 1/4, de Ferran 1/4. In 18 seasons he has been Penske's highest scoring driver 4 times.

  29. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by brundle View Post
    This is a bumb thread
    Pretty muchb.

  30. #60
    Name me another team that would give a driver 18 years on it without winning a series championship? Helio still gets an opportunity to try to get a 4th Indy 500 victory.

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