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Thread: RHR's thoughts on the revised car

  1. #1
    Registered User Jsieczka's Avatar
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    RHR's thoughts on the revised car

    http://www.racer.com/indycar/item/14...er-hunter-reay

    "It's different from the DW12 and the universal aero kit we had from 2012 to 2014," he said. "It has more downforce than that car, less downforce than the manufacturer aero kits that we've had the past few years, so it was a completely different car to drive. It's definitely on top of the racetrack; more lively, it takes a little bit more wheeling, which I certainly enjoy.

    I really haven't heard anything out of Sebring other then good reviews of the revised car.

  2. #2
    It's good that there are no fundamental problems with the new car, but given this point in the chassis evolution it shouldn't be that way unless some major mistakes were made.

    Most teams and drivers are optimistic when there is a change, thinking they will be able to make the most out of it.

    The most telling comments will be after a race or two.

  3. #3
    Insider Unzerdog's Avatar
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    The DW12 put on some great races when it first rolled out. Penske and Ganassi both struggled with it at first and alot of surprises ran at the front.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat" -Teddy Roosevelt

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Unzerdog View Post
    The DW12 put on some great races when it first rolled out. Penske and Ganassi both struggled with it at first and alot of surprises ran at the front.
    Historically, with a spec car the big teams get on top of it quicker because of their resources. Eventually, because everyone has the same equipment, the smaller teams catch up.

    IIRC, Penske won the first 4 poles and first 4 races of the DW12 era, with Ganassi in the mix (despite lots of problems with the Honda engine). Then Ganassi went 1-2 at Indy. I expect a lot of Penske dominance to start 2018, they probably had a wind tunnel model of the 2018 car running before most teams had parts. The only wildcard is if the Chevy engine is up to spec.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Insighter View Post
    Historically, with a spec car the big teams get on top of it quicker because of their resources. Eventually, because everyone has the same equipment, the smaller teams catch up.

    IIRC, Penske won the first 4 poles and first 4 races of the DW12 era, with Ganassi in the mix (despite lots of problems with the Honda engine). Then Ganassi went 1-2 at Indy. I expect a lot of Penske dominance to start 2018, they probably had a wind tunnel model of the 2018 car running before most teams had parts. The only wildcard is if the Chevy engine is up to spec.
    Typically the cycle goes:
    - Wide open (big teams still win the most, but anyone can win on any given week)
    - Big teams figure the car out first and dominate
    - Everyone figures the car out and the small teams catch up (with Penske/Ganassi doing some ludicrously time/money consuming things on brakes or dampers that nobody in the crowd sees or cares about to gain a couple hundredths of a second).

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Unzerdog View Post
    The DW12 put on some great races when it first rolled out. Penske and Ganassi both struggled with it at first and alot of surprises ran at the front.
    How do you figure? Didn't Helio win the first race, then Power won 2-3 before Indy with Ganassi winning Indy?

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    Registered User Boweimer's Avatar
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    It’s comical to me when people use the term “the old DW12” It still is the DW12! Just a different shade of lipstick..

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    Registered User Jsieczka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boweimer View Post
    It’s comical to me when people use the term the old “DW12” It still is the DW12! Just a different shade of lipstick..
    You mean people like the drivers?

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    Registered User Boweimer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jsieczka View Post
    You mean people like the drivers?
    Including drivers

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    Insider Chris Paff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boweimer View Post
    It’s comical to me when people use the term “the old DW12” It still is the DW12! Just a different shade of lipstick..
    Agreed
    "Paff has been closer to the mark than anyone will give him credit for."

    Richard Kimble 11/18/2010

    "Paff is far more right than any of you will EVER give him credit for.

    As non politically correct and un IndyCar friendly as it is, it's the truth. "

    SeeuInMay 12/29/2010

  11. #11
    Registered User TeamChevy's Avatar
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    So good to finally be able to see the rear wheels from the back, instead of the nasty looking pods. Real IndyCars are back!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TeamChevy View Post
    So good to finally be able to see the rear wheels from the back, instead of the nasty looking pods. Real IndyCars are back!
    Indeed! not to mention no more airbox either! can't wait for St. Pete
    World's biggest Ryan Hunter-Reay fan!

    Born in 1992, I've been lucky enough to have attended every '500 since 2000. Milwaukee (RIP) from 2003 - 2015, Iowa 2007-present, Long Beach 2016, Road America 1998-2007, 2016-present,
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  13. #13
    These cars look fast standing still. Really looking forward to St. Pete.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by sadler21 View Post
    How do you figure? Didn't Helio win the first race, then Power won 2-3 before Indy with Ganassi winning Indy?
    Selective memory. Apparently struggling is 5 straight pole positions and 4 straight wins to start the season (Penske).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Insighter View Post
    Selective memory. Apparently struggling is 5 straight pole positions and 4 straight wins to start the season (Penske).
    that is struggling for Penske standards haha... 1994 they won 7 of the first 8!

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    Insider Unzerdog's Avatar
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    Selective is right. Penske only managed to win 2 of the next eleven races after that. Dario won one race, Dixon won two. Hunter Reay came on strong and won 3 in a row and backed it up with a 4th at Baltimore. The surprise wins were JW at Fort Worth and Special Ed closing it out at Fontana.

    So, in my assessment, they struggled after a strong start. Will Power won 3 of the first 4, and nothing again after that. Helio got one more after winning the opener, 9 races later. Briscoe showed up at the end of the season with a win at Sonoma.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boweimer View Post
    It’s comical to me when people use the term “the old DW12” It still is the DW12! Just a different shade of lipstick..
    There is nothing aero that is in common with the DW12 when it first rolled out. The tub is common (with some safety updates), but the car is very much different in its third version, when compared to the last two. Not lipstick, but massive aero changes that don't resemble the other two. I can assure you, it will race quite differently than the last two. The on track product will NOT be the same.

    There are always guys that want to toss rocks at the series, but this latest version should offer better racing and lower cost.

  18. #18
    Registered User Boweimer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan_Weber View Post
    There is nothing aero that is in common with the DW12 when it first rolled out. The tub is common (with some safety updates), but the car is very much different in its third version, when compared to the last two. Not lipstick, but massive aero changes that don't resemble the other two. I can assure you, it will race quite differently than the last two. The on track product will NOT be the same.

    There are always guys that want to toss rocks at the series, but this latest version should offer better racing and lower cost.
    The old GM trick from the 80’s... Let’s call it a Cadillac Cimarron even though it’s a Chevy Cavalier.... & charge a premium. Cadillac fans didn’t buy it then.... As a long time dedicated Indycar fan, I ain’t buying it!

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan_Weber View Post
    The car is very much different in its third version, when compared to the last two.
    No. Just no. It's essentially the same car. Looks better, will probably race better, but essentially a DW12. Everything under the skin is the same (ok they moved the radiators and ducts, slightly), and the downforce levels are similar to 2012 (give or take a bit depending on circuit type).

    I don't think it is lipstick on a pig, the DW12 chassis is just fine, it was the old bodywork that was ugly. But it is not 'very much different', not even close.

    What's new for 2018:
    - Bodywork
    - Wings
    - Floor
    - Electronics update (looms, steering wheel)
    - Misc ducts, etc to fit the new bodywork

    What's the same as 2017:
    - Literally everything else (>90% of part count)

  20. #20
    Registered User Boweimer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Insighter View Post
    No. Just no. It's essentially the same car. Looks better, will probably race better, but essentially a DW12. Everything under the skin is the same (ok they moved the radiators and ducts, slightly), and the downforce levels are similar to 2012 (give or take a bit depending on circuit type).

    I don't think it is lipstick on a pig, the DW12 chassis is just fine, it was the old bodywork that was ugly. But it is not 'very much different', not even close.
    I never said pig.. In fact I thought the first rendition of the DW12 was a fine looking race car minus the bumpers. The point is & you agreed that the 2018 car is still a DW12
    Last edited by Boweimer; 01-12-2018 at 08:31 PM.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Unzerdog View Post
    Selective is right. Penske only managed to win 2 of the next eleven races after that. Dario won one race, Dixon won two. Hunter Reay came on strong and won 3 in a row and backed it up with a 4th at Baltimore. The surprise wins were JW at Fort Worth and Special Ed closing it out at Fontana.

    So, in my assessment, they struggled after a strong start. Will Power won 3 of the first 4, and nothing again after that. Helio got one more after winning the opener, 9 races later. Briscoe showed up at the end of the season with a win at Sonoma.
    Penske dominated the start to the season, completely dominated. So to say they 'struggled at first' makes little sense. Ganassi had a lot of engine failures which skewed their results. Dixon would have won the title if not for engine failures. Power would have won the title if not for crashes (including his Fontana crash which handed RHR the title). Not to say Andretti didn't earn the title, but on pace, Penske and Ganassi ruled. The very cool battles won by Wilson at Texas and Ed at Fontana were dogfights with Ganassi cars in the last couple laps.

    It took several months for the smaller teams to start competing with Penske/Ganassi in 2012, and I suspect 2018 will be the same story. The wildcard is which engine supplier will have the edge, and if Ganassi still can compete with Penske on resources.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Insighter View Post
    What's new for 2018:
    - Bodywork
    - Wings
    - Floor
    - Electronics update (looms, steering wheel)
    - Misc ducts, etc to fit the new bodywork

    What's the same as 2017:
    - Literally everything else (>90% of part count)
    Wasn't there some work done on the front end and sides? Getting rid of the sponsor blocker, and the weird air hole there. And then wasn't the whole nose of the thing shortened quite a bit?

    It's still the DW-12, but it's the DW-12 reshaped quite a bit.

    Or did I make that up in my head?
    "I want to be a race car passenger: just a guy who bugs the driver. Say man, can I turn on the radio? You should slow down. Why do we gotta keep going in circles? Can I put my feet out the window? Man, you really like Tide..."

  23. #23
    Registered User Mr. Muffins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Insighter View Post
    No. Just no. It's essentially the same car. Looks better, will probably race better, but essentially a DW12. Everything under the skin is the same (ok they moved the radiators and ducts, slightly), and the downforce levels are similar to 2012 (give or take a bit depending on circuit type).

    I don't think it is lipstick on a pig, the DW12 chassis is just fine, it was the old bodywork that was ugly. But it is not 'very much different', not even close.

    What's new for 2018:
    - Bodywork
    - Wings
    - Floor
    - Electronics update (looms, steering wheel)
    - Misc ducts, etc to fit the new bodywork

    What's the same as 2017:
    - Literally everything else (>90% of part count)
    Brakes calipers too.
    Sitting president of the "Sato Forever Faithful Fanclub"

  24. #24
    Yes, I forgot the brake calipers.

    Sponsor blockers were part of the floor. Front nose/crash structure is unchanged, as in the rear crash structure. The nose is not shorter. The only front end change is the wing.

  25. #25
    Insider Unzerdog's Avatar
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    I was going off 6 years ago memory before I read the stats. And thanks to TF for establishing the fact and reminding me that my memory has gone to chit. I was at St. Pete for the debut of the DW12 and Rubens Mania. I collected photo evidence of Helio winning, and can't remember. I was backwards in my recollection and shouldn't have said "At first". That stretch of 11 races with 2 wins was the struggle I seem to remember. There were only 4 ovals on that lousy schedule at the time and Penske came out with zero wins.

    Crashes and engine failure are adjectives used to describe a struggle. Anything outside of winning is struggling. When your team is named Penske, all you count are the wins. Pursuit of perfection. They don't settle for mediocrity.

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