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Thread: Wickens Updates v2.0

  1. #121
    Patrick Stephan step33T's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakester View Post
    Whether we like it or not, the docs and the 'pr' folks are going to wait until they can give good information. Yes, they owe the fans information...but they owe the fans accurate information, way over owing it 'quickly'.
    I agree, and anything beyond what INDYCAR has officially released is speculation at this point! And for the record, again, here is the last update from INDYCAR. We (the "media") have not received any further:

    Sunday 10:40pm ET - Source: INDYCAR:

    Medical update on Schmidt Peterson Motorsports driver Robert Wickens
    ALLENTOWN, Pennsylvania (Sunday, Aug. 19, 2018) -- Schmidt Peterson Motorsports driver Robert Wickens is being treated for injuries to his lower extremities, right arm and spine following an incident in the ABC Supply 500 at Pocono Raceway. He also sustained a pulmonary contusion. He will undergo an MRI and probable surgery at Lehigh Valley Hospital - Cedar Crest. Further updates on his condition will be provided when available.
    Last edited by step33T; 08-20-2018 at 05:55 PM.
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  2. #122
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    I'll preface this with the usual disclaimer that "hindsight is 20/20"... While I think it's not correct to say that Indycar "dropped the ball" on the communications front, I do think that they could have done a better job. Information could have been passed sooner that it appeared that the injuries were not life threatening along with a later follow-up that Wickens had been forwarded to the area hospital along with a non-specific statement such as "...for further evaluation and treatment of suspected injuries to his extremities." That doesn't paint too graphic of an image, would be factual, and would have sent the message that he wasn't merely just "banged up" and being evaluated/observed for a possible concussion. I, like I suspect many others, mistook Cavin's "awake and alert" statement for meaning that he was largely OK and the reason that they took so long to get him out of the car was due to obvious precaution of wanting to immobilize his neck and spine before they extricated him given the g-forces that he certainly experienced in the violent rotations of the car.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by step33T View Post
    I agree, and anything beyond what INDYCAR has officially released is speculation at this point! And for the record, again, here is the last update from INDYCAR. We (the "media") have not received any further:

    10:40pm ET - Source: INDYCAR:

    Medical update on Schmidt Peterson Motorsports driver Robert Wickens
    ALLENTOWN, Pennsylvania (Sunday, Aug. 19, 2018) -- Schmidt Peterson Motorsports driver Robert Wickens is being treated for injuries to his lower extremities, right arm and spine following an incident in the ABC Supply 500 at Pocono Raceway. He also sustained a pulmonary contusion. He will undergo an MRI and probable surgery at Lehigh Valley Hospital - Cedar Crest. Further updates on his condition will be provided when available.
    thank you for providing clarity and sanity to this thread.
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  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by pchop69 View Post
    If "the PR Guy" was in there, then he is bound by HIPAA restrictions as well.
    I don't believe for a second that is true. Per HIPAA, unless you are a "covered entity", you have no legal requirement to protect medically private data. Simply providing medical treatment in an of itself does not make you a "covered entity". Additionally, data about work related injuries, fitness for work evaluations, and other such data is often considered part of ones "employment record" and are not subject to HIPAA restrictions.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otis View Post
    Sorry if the quote was misleading. It was meant to be hyperbolic regarding a general lack of regard for others privacy.
    I'm just very tired of "that's the problem with society" type messages all over the place. Check out my posts in the balloon thread. "That's the problem with society, we watch the news!" "That's the problem with society, we don't like balloons any more!"

    I dunno. A lot of just... wedge building stuff between people based on silly, irrelevant stuff. I'm tired of people dividing us into the "us vs. them", "me vs. the world", "there's only one correct way to think," stuff.

    That's... the problem with...

    society...

    ...

    Sh*t.
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    I thought that Dr Trammell mentioned in a Dinner With Racers episode that the drivers all sign away their HIPAA rights. So I don't think that has anything to do with the delay in info. Probably comes down to respect for the driver and family.

  7. #127
    Are there any new updates? It's been 26 hours since the accident and as far as I know, there are no news at all apart from the statement from SPM. I find it quite disturbing...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartguy View Post
    I thought that Dr Trammell mentioned in a Dinner With Racers episode that the drivers all sign away their HIPAA rights. So I don't think that has anything to do with the delay in info. Probably comes down to respect for the driver and family.
    Finally someone said it. I had to read five pages of "experts" crying HIPAA before someone cited what a real authority said.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedyson View Post
    Are there any new updates? It's been 26 hours since the accident and as far as I know, there are no news at all apart from the statement from SPM. I find it quite disturbing...
    Same. The lack of information has me fearing the worst about his back.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gizmologist View Post
    I'll preface this with the usual disclaimer that "hindsight is 20/20"... While I think it's not correct to say that Indycar "dropped the ball" on the communications front, I do think that they could have done a better job. Information could have been passed sooner that it appeared that the injuries were not life threatening along with a later follow-up that Wickens had been forwarded to the area hospital along with a non-specific statement such as "...for further evaluation and treatment of suspected injuries to his extremities." That doesn't paint too graphic of an image, would be factual, and would have sent the message that he wasn't merely just "banged up" and being evaluated/observed for a possible concussion. I, like I suspect many others, mistook Cavin's "awake and alert" statement for meaning that he was largely OK and the reason that they took so long to get him out of the car was due to obvious precaution of wanting to immobilize his neck and spine before they extricated him given the g-forces that he certainly experienced in the violent rotations of the car.
    I would think the chain of command would have to go through the family 1st and allow Indycar to make an announcement out of respect.

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    No news is no news:

    https://twitter.com/marshallpruett/s...16086767071236

    Things totally quiet at Hinchtown, but I assume that's the same deal.

    This situation is likely much different from an Indy wreck because I assume all the media and Indycar domos have moved on from Pennsylvania....anything that comes out probably from the team like we saw last night.
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  12. #132
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    I think that they were swamped dealing with the injured drivers. The network did not show them working on Robert while he was in the car. They avoided showing it.

    In the end, I'm so glad he's going to be OK, I don't care about this other stuff.
    Get your head out of your past!!!

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stick500 View Post
    Leaving fans feeling a driver died for over an an hour, for absolutely no apparent reason, is a huge failure.
    They don't start the helicopter for dead people.

    I hope he gets a different doctor than the one who did my mother's second hip replacement at that hospital.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kedyson View Post
    Are there any new updates? It's been 26 hours since the accident and as far as I know, there are no news at all apart from the statement from SPM. I find it quite disturbing...
    It's definitely interesting that there has not been a statement released updating his condition. I'm trying to think of a similar situation?? It's one of those things I never took much notice of in the past.
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  15. #135
    Dirt biker/carp hunter Stick500's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pole Day View Post
    I would think the chain of command would have to go through the family 1st and allow Indycar to make an announcement out of respect.
    I really doubt that on the day of the accident (unless it's a fatality). Later during rehab (Schumacher) the family would take over on the info front.

    Damn! For over an hour I thought the guy was dead. No reason fans had to endure that as well as any family or friends who I am sure were watching on TV.
    Last edited by Stick500; 08-20-2018 at 06:17 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kedyson View Post
    Are there any new updates? It's been 26 hours since the accident and as far as I know, there are no news at all apart from the statement from SPM. I find it quite disturbing...
    My thought is that he's either been in surgery a good portion of the day or been going through a bunch of tests (or both) and they will provide an update when it's over.

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZOPENWHEEL View Post
    My thought is that he's either been in surgery a good portion of the day or been going through a bunch of tests (or both) and they will provide an update when it's over.
    I'm thinking you are right.

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    Praying for Wickens and his family. A very difficult time.

  19. #139
    Dirt biker/carp hunter Stick500's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat00 View Post
    They don't start the helicopter for dead people.
    I knew that and realized then he was alive. But how long was that after the wreck before the chopper started?

    Just saying this was way different from past protocol at the track and on TV concerning a drivers condition where they typically told fans a driver was conscious but injured ASAP. Like a previous poster said, IMS was always on board with that system.

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartguy View Post
    I thought that Dr Trammell mentioned in a Dinner With Racers episode that the drivers all sign away their HIPAA rights. So I don't think that has anything to do with the delay in info. Probably comes down to respect for the driver and family.
    Pretty much everyone with a hardcard fills out a form called: "Participant Authorization for Use and Disclosure of Protected Health Information"

    It is NOT required, but most do sign it as it's actually beneficial to have INDYCAR PR in conjunction with INDYCAR medical managing injury information. One of the stated reasons to authorize INDYCAR to release this information is "accuracy." Another stated reason is to "minimize the possible harmful effects of speculation and rumors."

    But, just giving INDYCAR the right to provide information doesn't mean INDYCAR PR will be anything but highly conservative on the information released. If their processes were different, or if they had a history of providing information less than fully accurate, no one would sign the form and we'd never get information from INDYCAR Medical.

  21. #141
    Insider Nigel Red5's Avatar
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    Idk, it took forever to get the helicopter in the air and find out anything about Justin Wilson at Pocono, but folks weren't sitting in the stands for hours since it was late in the race.

  22. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat00 View Post
    They don't start the helicopter for dead people.

    I hope he gets a different doctor than the one who did my mother's second hip replacement at that hospital.
    He'll have Dr. Trammel along, and that is the absolute best you could ask for. The man is truly an angel among us. I wouldn't have my wife and our amazing daughter about to celebrate her 4th birthday this weekend if not for Dr. Trammel's work.
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  23. #143
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    Local 5pm news here in Indy is just showing crash footage and Twitter comments.

  24. #144
    Dirt biker/carp hunter Stick500's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel Red5 View Post
    Idk, it took forever to get the helicopter in the air and find out anything about Justin Wilson at Pocono, but folks weren't sitting in the stands for hours since it was late in the race.
    Well that's an example where they couldn't reassure the fans with any positive news, so keeping quiet about his condition was the right call.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lyrictenor1 View Post
    I'm terribly sorry that the family, the medical staff, the team, and the series did not keep you entertained with updates to a driver's serious injuries.

    Honestly, it doesn't really concern us. They will tell us the status when they're good and ready to do so. They owe us nothing.
    I am sorry you feel this way, but they do owe "us" something. As professional drivers who are entertaining on television for a profit, and have hired public relation professionals with many responsibilities, one being to keep the public informed, they need to give an update in a timely manner, and almost one hour is not acceptable.
    Notice, I didn't say the Doctors need to come out and talk to the press (Dr. Henry Bock did).
    Also, notice we were not asking for his complete medical report, only a simple "awake and alert" as they said one hour later. Otherwise, horrible rumors unfortunately will begin.

  26. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indy1980 View Post
    I am sorry you feel this way, but they do owe "us" something. As professional drivers who are entertaining on television for a profit, and have hired public relation professionals with many responsibilities, one being to keep the public informed, they need to give an update in a timely manner, and almost one hour is not acceptable.
    Notice, I didn't say the Doctors need to come out and talk to the press (Dr. Henry Bock did).
    Also, notice we were not asking for his complete medical report, only a simple "awake and alert" as they said one hour later. Otherwise, horrible rumors unfortunately will begin.
    No, all they owe us is to drive a racecar on the track. That is all. Everything else beyond that is a bonus.

  27. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat00 View Post
    They don't start the helicopter for dead people.

    I hope he gets a different doctor than the one who did my mother's second hip replacement at that hospital.
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  28. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indy1980 View Post
    I am sorry you feel this way, but they do owe "us" something. As professional drivers who are entertaining on television for a profit, and have hired public relation professionals with many responsibilities, one being to keep the public informed, they need to give an update in a timely manner, and almost one hour is not acceptable.
    Notice, I didn't say the Doctors need to come out and talk to the press (Dr. Henry Bock did).
    Also, notice we were not asking for his complete medical report, only a simple "awake and alert" as they said one hour later. Otherwise, horrible rumors unfortunately will begin.
    I hesitate to join this fray, but this statement really bothers me.

    Just because Robert Wickens is a somewhat public figure in no way obliges him (or his proxies) to release personal information to you. To say one hour of your waiting to hear of his status is unacceptable in a medical emergency is extraordinarily self-serving. The medical and professional staff should be operating on the schedule that best serves the injured driver in a time like that. Keeping the public informed can come when it is convenient, but should never take precedent.

    I watched the crash, and I was worried for Wickens too. I absolutely wanted to hear something positive from the medical staff or the commentators. But I would never want to my needs to take precedence over care of the driver or notification of family, and I would absolutely defer to the medical and professional staff to make that call.

  29. #149
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    Got news for you, just because the patient is a race driver doesn't mean he gets special treatment over others. Welcome to the US healthcare system. Even getting an MRI can take time to actually have done.
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  30. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyrictenor1 View Post
    No, all they owe us is to drive a racecar on the track. That is all. Everything else beyond that is a bonus.
    So what does Cavin owe us? He tried to blame the delay on getting information out due to the “backlog” of people getting x-rayed. Telling us 20 minutes earlier that Wickens was awake and awaiting x-rays (or transfer to Lehigh Valley) would have been completely appropriate. As some else said, this never would’ve happened at Indy. Can you imagine hundreds of thousands at the track and millions watching on TV wondering if someone died for an hour.

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