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Thread: Wickens Updates v2.0

  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
    Thank you. I will try to keep this in mind next time I panic differently than the next guy and we then dispute the right way to get upset.

    I appreciate the reasoning.
    Hey man, no problem.

    Apparently when I'm anxious about a driver, I log onto trackforum and get preachy. Who knew.
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  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaron5572 View Post
    Since they said he suffered bruised lungs, he's likely on a ventilator of some sort and probably isn't conscious most of the time. It sounds like he'll live, it's just the back injury that's the question.
    I’ve had a bruised lung with multiple (5-7) rib fractures, broken vertebrates, broken clavicle, and broken shoulder blade from a Karting accident. I never lost consciousness though I did finally succumb to exhaustion and fell asleep for about four hours after being juiced up. Trust me when I say he is not resting or spending his day sleeping, he is likely miserable and in a great deal of pain.

    Does anyone else wonder why they are reluctant to say he is alert and awake when there are people who almost immediately proclaim, “glad he’s going to be ok, what a relief”. You can be alert and awake and still be suffering life altering injuries. Let’s all hope and pray that his injuries, truly are the type where full recovery is expected.
    Last edited by BADGER; 08-21-2018 at 12:13 AM.

  3. #183
    Dirt biker/carp hunter Stick500's Avatar
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    Yeh I think there's a bit of a mix-up in this thread (it's actually two merged threads).

    Myself and others have only been complaining about the first hour after the accident when we heard absolutely nothing.

    I don't think anyone, anywhere in this thread is upset about the timing of, and/or details of, his medical condition since that initial "awake and alert". I think I can speak for everyone here that we all respect and understand those procedures.
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  4. #184
    Registered User Squonk's Avatar
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    Man -- I'm sorry I started this thread now. I'm not and most here are not demanding instant updates. Just when someone gets a substantiated report (which SPM are giving) is good enough for me. Why not everyone here that has an axe to grind with another forum member just chill the f out, and use that energy to hope and pray Robert's injuries are not life threatening and that we can only hope he returns to drive again next year.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by mfranke View Post
    No. The first on the air confirmation was Cavin. There was an unsourced tweet from Ayello that said he was awake. But nothing was ever mentioned until Cavin stepped out. My point is it is Cavin’s job to communicate effectively and he didn’t in this scenario. As soon as he was aware that Robert was awake - and the family and team knew - he should have reported it. What he said an hour into the event could’ve eased a tremendous amount of concern and grief in the stands, paddock, tv booth, and in living rooms around the world. The fact that people don’t think the INDYCAR has a duty to effectively communicate in a time of crisis is dumbfounding to me. No one was asking for a full diagnosis, no one was asking a doctor to come talk on camera, and no one was expecting the public’s needs to supersede the family.

    But like someone else said, we need to just let it go and focus on Robert and his surgery right now. So I’m done.
    Ever consider who Aylleo was hired to replace? Perhaps that was the source...

    To my knowledge, this is the first time Cavin has had to handle something like this since Kitch moved on. There isn't exactly a manual on this part of the job, especially in a tense situation like yesterday. All sitting here bickering over this today should be counting their blessings that we're not saying goodbye to another friend far too soon instead.
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  6. #186
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    The situation was very fluid at the time Curt made his initial announcement....I'm guessing there probably wasn't a lot Cavin could say or definitively knew at that moment. His response was appropriate IMHO.

    EDIT: Thinking of how Mark Donohue passed makes me think that quickly projecting that "everything's OK" or trying to give a wealth of details when things are still in flux also makes me feel that Curt/Indy Cars response was appropriate.
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  7. #187
    Dirt biker/carp hunter Stick500's Avatar
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    No one is criticizing what he said.

    It's when he said it, over an hour after the wreck.

  8. #188
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    Let's head over to today's Indycar Ministry posting:

    Road racing is doomed...what this country needs is a big new racetrack designed for automobiles instead of horses. C.G. Fisher

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Stick500 View Post
    Yeh I think there's a bit of a mix-up in this thread (it's actually two merged threads).

    Myself and others have only been complaining about the first hour after the accident when we heard absolutely nothing.

    I don't think anyone, anywhere in this thread is upset about the timing of, and/or details of, his medical condition since that initial "awake and alert". I think I can speak for everyone here that we all respect and understand those procedures.
    If the first hour, first week, first month and first year after Hinch's accident in Indy taught us anything it is don't believe a thing that Indycar releases. If there is a reason to circle the wagons they have already done so. Hope or pray for the best.

  10. #190
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    So I take it from all the flim flam in this thread that nobody has heard much of
    anything since last night's updates?
    ...---...

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheeseczar View Post
    So I take it from all the flim flam in this thread that nobody has heard much of
    anything since last night's updates?
    Indycar.com reporting spinal surgery slated for this evening.

  12. #192
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    Thanks.

  13. #193
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    What a crazy thread. Fact is - Robert is seriously injured. Very serious. The spinal injury is very concerning. The MRI is done to try and see what’s needs to be stabilized to try avoid/limit/prevent paralysis (most likely). Similar to Ryan Shazier, I would expect to hear more silence concerning his condition. The poor guy and his family are just miserable right now. He will live, but the rest won’t be determined for days/weeks. Best thoughts to him.

  14. #194
    First, prayers go to Robert Wickens for a full, and quick, recovery....

    My thanks to the number of you whose common sense and compassion in response to those “I want my (whatever) now” types who felt they were owed a quicker report....

    Many seem to think there was a purposeful delay before the “awake and alert” announcement was made...Maybe there was...Exactly when was Robert awake and alert...at the car?....on the ambulance ride?....how long into his hospital stay?
    In the current “hate the media” frenzy, is it because the first reaction to a “backup” due to number of patients (five drivers) that some just refuse to believe anything they are officially told?

    I have been around this stuff long enough to have seen many different scenarios unfold and be handled differently many times...Even though there are protocols in place, each situation is different...I’ve had to announce tragic outcomes to mass audiences (including Greg Moore and Gonzalo Rodriguez) and had to continue on with the race broadcast or race weekend...Each faced different challenges....

    I've also been around long enough not to assume a very bad outcome despite a spectacular incident...In my formative years, it was expected a bad crash had a bad outcome...I think this changed for me with the ‘75 Tom Sneva Indy crash...Fortunately, big crashes rarely lead to a fatality, thanks to improvements in cars, tracks, etc...Amazingly, a relatively innocuous crash (Scott Braxton, Justin Wilson) can just as easily lead to a bad outcome as ones that look disastrous...

    To be honest, my biggest foreboding this time came less from the crash and more from perhaps similarities with Las Vegas 2011... Both Dan and Robert driving for Schmidt, the tail number of the helicopter including “LV”, and NBC saying we are waiting for a statement from Curt Cavan, much like the media waiting for a statement by Randy Bernard...But I did begin to relax a bit when I saw Mario’s fist bump...

    Again, each situation is different (I’m still waiting for CART to officially tell the radio booth that Greg Moore is gone)...Let’s just pray for Robert’s recovery, whenever we hear about it...

  15. #195
    Do we know if he can move his extremities?

  16. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by FordXFE View Post
    What a crazy thread. Fact is - Robert is seriously injured. Very serious. The spinal injury is very concerning. The MRI is done to try and see what’s needs to be stabilized to try avoid/limit/prevent paralysis (most likely). Similar to Ryan Shazier, I would expect to hear more silence concerning his condition. The poor guy and his family are just miserable right now. He will live, but the rest won’t be determined for days/weeks. Best thoughts to him.
    Perhaps that's why we haven't heard anything from Indycar, family,drivers. We all need to pray for Robbie.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeron View Post
    Do we know if he can move his extremities?
    We do not. Spinal surgery tonight, then I guess we'll get a prognosis. At this point I'll just be grateful if he walks again, I'm not feeling overly optimistic about racing.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Joeremi View Post
    We do not. Spinal surgery tonight, then I guess we'll get a prognosis. At this point I'll just be grateful if he walks again, I'm not feeling overly optimistic about racing.
    I'm a Neuro ICU nurse. I'm less concerned with him being alert and awake... which is great... but I really want to know if he can move his lower extremities.

  19. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfranke View Post
    So what does Cavin owe us? He tried to blame the delay on getting information out due to the “backlog” of people getting x-rayed. Telling us 20 minutes earlier that Wickens was awake and awaiting x-rays (or transfer to Lehigh Valley) would have been completely appropriate. As some else said, this never would’ve happened at Indy. Can you imagine hundreds of thousands at the track and millions watching on TV wondering if someone died for an hour.
    Exactly....This entire thread keeps getting misread. I have not read anyone asking for a full medical report from those providing care. We simply feel the "extended family" should be told that our driver is alive (word it as you deem appropriate) in a timely manner.
    In 2018, One Hour is not timely. IndyCar did much better in the 1980's than we did this past weekend. IMO

  20. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzlor View Post
    The replay was NEVER shown at the track, even though NBCSN coverage showed it several times in the immediate aftermath. . . When it finally freed up, I found a replay on Twitter, and my first observation was, well, that didn't kill him. It was bad, don't get me wrong, but I was actually relieved at the replay, even though I assume many in the crowd were still in the dark. The chatter on this forum, of course, was completely ridiculous, and I couldn't even follow/read it.
    I was at the race with my two sons and it was tough to get any idea of what was going on. Thought for certain he was dead based on what was written on Track Forum. A lot of petty "I told you so's" and "I knew this was going to happen". Couple voices of reason but I was trying to find something to comfort my sons and it was frustrating sifting through all of that. Guess it is the nature of the beast but just seemed like an odd time for people to be so negative.

  21. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Indy1980 View Post
    We simply feel the "extended family" should be told that our driver is alive (word it as you deem appropriate) in a timely manner.
    Yeah ... I agree, his family should be told as soon as possible.

    We are NOT his family. We are strangers. We have Nothing to do with him.

    At some point we are almost stalkers ... we have this imagined relationship with this man, and we are upset that other people don't recognize our "Rights." We have no "rights." We are not "family." We are no different than the people who watch any other person on TV. When some random TV star goes into rehab, do I get a text? Am I "Owed" a text just because I watch the show?

    We Have No "Relationship" With Robert Wickens In The Real World.

    Unless he can call you by name if you pass on the street, you are strangers.

    Do you send Him notifications about what happens in Your life? Don't you "owe" him that, seeing as you are so close and all ... part of his family?

    People seem to have grown up with TV and cannot appreciate that watching TV is Not the same as watching real life. Even being at a track, just makes you a spectator.

    The reason I say all this again is because people cannot seem to grasp it.

    We are just people watching TV.

    That said .... I think IndyCar did okay. As people have noted, IndyCar has to be careful. IndyCar has to be responsible for everything it says ... because there will always be some stalker out there who thinks he or she has some "rights" to some information, and will start a problem when he or she is unhappy. People get sued for the stupidest things.

    I would much rather IndyCar keep me waiting, as painful as that is, than tell me something inaccurate or misleading. And if anyone here thinks it is easy to craft a statement which doesn't promote either great relief or great worry, when none of the medical facts are clear ... as has been noted, Half a week later we still don't know if Wickens is paralyzed or will be. We might not know for six months if he will ever walk again. Until doctors could get him out of the car, how could they know the extent of his internal injuries? As I said in another post, if a rib had punctured his liver, he could have been awake and alert and dead ten minutes later.

    And I can guarantee you, based on what has been in these few threads ... if IndyCar had said, "He is alive and seems alright" and Wickens had died, we would be hearing a Lot more about IndyCar from people focusing on their own pain ...... while everyone forgot the pain of the driver and his family.

    What Uncommonsense said about fear and frustration is right---at the time, I think we were all afraid and very hurt, and everyone expressed that differently.

    But isn't it time to be rational? And instead of defending our emotional responses with fake reasoning ... why can't we just admit we were hurt and scared?

    Some people just want to have problems, and start fights for no reason other than to have fights. I don't see this here. I think people are genuine in their feelings ... but seriously, unless Robert Wickens knows your name, what does he "owe" you? What does IndyCar "owe" you? They gave us TV entertainment ... they didn't even "owe" us that. They were kind enough to tell us what they knew, when thy knew it for certain. They could have said no more than that the wreckage would be cleared and racing would resume once the fence was fixed. They didn't have any obligation to tell us that.

    Most of the people on this site have had a thousands times more personal interaction with each other than any of us have had with Robert Wickens. We have shared ideas, debated points, shared our passions for IndyCar and racing ... some of us have even met one another at the various tracks. Yet no one here thinks anyone "owes" anyone else as far as intimate details of health conditions.

    Robert Wickens is a TV star and we enjoy watching him perform ... but we aren't supposed to fall in love with the character an actress plays---we know she is acting. And we aren't supposed to think we are "in love" with some actress just because we find her character appealing. Very, very few of us have Any real relationship--a Mutual relationship---with Robert Wickens. Those that do have probably been to his hospital room.

    The rest of us should wake up, calm down, and send sympathy notes and wishes for a full recovery.

  22. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by lotuspoweredbyford View Post
    There are parts of this thread that are absolutely embarrassing.
    Embarrassing is being polite. I'd like to take a big swing at a few posts. All I can do is cuss. Dammit, Robert is my favorite driver. I'm still gutted. Dammit.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat" -Teddy Roosevelt

  23. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unzerdog View Post
    Embarrassing is being polite. I'd like to take a big swing at a few posts. All I can do is cuss. Dammit, Robert is my favorite driver. I'm still gutted. Dammit.
    You can also use the "Report this Post" button.
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  24. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
    Yeah ... I agree, his family should be told as soon as possible.

    We are NOT his family. We are strangers. We have Nothing to do with him.

    At some point we are almost stalkers ... we have this imagined relationship with this man, and we are upset that other people don't recognize our "Rights." We have no "rights." We are not "family." We are no different than the people who watch any other person on TV. When some random TV star goes into rehab, do I get a text? Am I "Owed" a text just because I watch the show?

    We Have No "Relationship" With Robert Wickens In The Real World.

    Unless he can call you by name if you pass on the street, you are strangers.

    Do you send Him notifications about what happens in Your life? Don't you "owe" him that, seeing as you are so close and all ... part of his family?

    People seem to have grown up with TV and cannot appreciate that watching TV is Not the same as watching real life. Even being at a track, just makes you a spectator.

    The reason I say all this again is because people cannot seem to grasp it.

    We are just people watching TV.

    That said .... I think IndyCar did okay. As people have noted, IndyCar has to be careful. IndyCar has to be responsible for everything it says ... because there will always be some stalker out there who thinks he or she has some "rights" to some information, and will start a problem when he or she is unhappy. People get sued for the stupidest things.

    I would much rather IndyCar keep me waiting, as painful as that is, than tell me something inaccurate or misleading. And if anyone here thinks it is easy to craft a statement which doesn't promote either great relief or great worry, when none of the medical facts are clear ... as has been noted, Half a week later we still don't know if Wickens is paralyzed or will be. We might not know for six months if he will ever walk again. Until doctors could get him out of the car, how could they know the extent of his internal injuries? As I said in another post, if a rib had punctured his liver, he could have been awake and alert and dead ten minutes later.

    And I can guarantee you, based on what has been in these few threads ... if IndyCar had said, "He is alive and seems alright" and Wickens had died, we would be hearing a Lot more about IndyCar from people focusing on their own pain ...... while everyone forgot the pain of the driver and his family.

    What Uncommonsense said about fear and frustration is right---at the time, I think we were all afraid and very hurt, and everyone expressed that differently.

    But isn't it time to be rational? And instead of defending our emotional responses with fake reasoning ... why can't we just admit we were hurt and scared?

    Some people just want to have problems, and start fights for no reason other than to have fights. I don't see this here. I think people are genuine in their feelings ... but seriously, unless Robert Wickens knows your name, what does he "owe" you? What does IndyCar "owe" you? They gave us TV entertainment ... they didn't even "owe" us that. They were kind enough to tell us what they knew, when thy knew it for certain. They could have said no more than that the wreckage would be cleared and racing would resume once the fence was fixed. They didn't have any obligation to tell us that.

    Most of the people on this site have had a thousands times more personal interaction with each other than any of us have had with Robert Wickens. We have shared ideas, debated points, shared our passions for IndyCar and racing ... some of us have even met one another at the various tracks. Yet no one here thinks anyone "owes" anyone else as far as intimate details of health conditions.

    Robert Wickens is a TV star and we enjoy watching him perform ... but we aren't supposed to fall in love with the character an actress plays---we know she is acting. And we aren't supposed to think we are "in love" with some actress just because we find her character appealing. Very, very few of us have Any real relationship--a Mutual relationship---with Robert Wickens. Those that do have probably been to his hospital room.

    The rest of us should wake up, calm down, and send sympathy notes and wishes for a full recovery.
    With apologies for copying this whole post, but there is an extremely important message embodied here...more than just what might be going on with Wickens.

    It drives me nuts when people say "we" finished first, or "we" ran third', or "we" crashed. This is in relation to your position as a fan of a certain team in a certain sport. Well done to the marketers that they have been able to make us feel part of the fold. Buy a hat; get a shirt; customize your license plate.

    But at the end of the day? You/"we" are customers. Ticket buyers. The financial fuel that drives the promoters to buy the rights to show an event.

    Short of the few people which I still know in the sport, "we" are nothing other than the people who buy the tickets and cheer "our" team on.

    That's it. Like someone said, if Wickens or anyone else doesn't say "hey Ted, how you doing, come sit with us" when you meet them out socially, you ain't nothing other than a paying customer with absolutely NO involvement other than seeing the ticket line on your credit card bill.

    Thank you Maelochs for putting it so succinctly. For the rest of the "we's", enjoy the fantasy; but recognize it as just that.

  25. #205
    I thought I was done with this thread, but I have one more thing to add … to the people who feel some mystical ‘connection” with Robert Wickens … I get it.

    When I think about the wreck and think about the potential aftermath I have a distinct and unpleasant emotional reaction. It hurts, it saddens me … even a days later, even after having seen so many wrecks … as I mentioned in some post, I saw the aftermath of Memo Gidley’s Rolex wreck just a few minutes after it happened …. And it was painful, but also painful that six months later he was still suffering so much pain … you’d think I would be able to take it by now.

    I am not trying to dismiss or demean the very real discomfort some of us feel over the injuries to this complete stranger, Robert Wickens. I feel real pain … and I bet if a week ago he had been standing in line behind me at the supermarket in casual clothes and a ball cap I might not have recognized him, or noticed him.

    I just don’ want to presume that the fact that I am upset about this stranger, creates any bond between us … if he were standing behind me at the supermarket, I know For Sure he wouldn’t notice me … I am a total stranger to him.

    I don’t want to seem to be belittling the people who imagine they have some relationship … or rather, I don’t want to be denying the very real feelings they have. I just want to add a few different perspectives.

    I know if any of us were asked, outside of the context of this thread, all of us would want the very best outcome for Mr. Wickens, whether we know him personally or not.

  26. #206
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    I really do not like the lack of Information and I hope there is really nothing really wrong with him.

    But for me it is a bit different. I know the guy. He is not a stranger.

  27. #207
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    In times like this I try to remain calm and practice this: Don't fear the worst, hope for the best, and patiently wait for news.

    My continued best wishes to Mr. Wickens.
    "He went into a tire barrier, which is certainly the nicest of all the barriers." -Bobby Unser, Denver '90

  28. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by nascarnation View Post
    Let's head over to today's Indycar Ministry posting:

    Good place, always open at the track, always free. Usually make a stop there Sunday morning for the 500. Never bad advice there.

    Other then that. Trust in these folks (Link still says Holmatro, but its AMR now)
    https://www.indycar.com/Fan-Info/IND...ro-Safety-Team

    Doctor Olvey is still around too. He worked on Fittipaldi as well as Trammel.
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  29. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by THE BEAR View Post

    But at the end of the day? You/"we" are customers. Ticket buyers. The financial fuel that drives the promoters to buy the rights to show an event.
    I disagree with the above, but understand the sentiment. “We” when referring to sports or individual stars can mean many different things. From buying stock in (ex Justin Wilson), to being an alum (through seat licenses and endowment), to being part of a community, to being part of a fan base that directly alters outcomes (ex crowd noise), to being a custom equipment maker - I don’t have a problem with people saying “we accomplished X”. Most people are adults who understand they didn’t directly win, finish X, but feeling as you did your part to help someone else is rewarding and “we” as people should be able to take pride in that.

    But it I digress.

  30. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by RS2 View Post
    I really do not like the lack of Information and I hope there is really nothing really wrong with him.

    But for me it is a bit different. I know the guy. He is not a stranger.
    So, ring up the family/team/agent and get the info you need. Why suffer through a lack of information when the door is open for you to get said details?

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