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Thread: PT cleared by NBC re:Facebook comment, will continue as TV analyst

  1. #121
    The Megyn vs. PT comparison is a good example of employment history affecting reaction to your latest screwup. Tracy is a goon who needs to zip it on social media, but I suspect that stuff doesn't bleed over into his relationships in studio at NBCSN; Megyn had been making enemies at NBC Today practically from the day she started. Also, the final nail in her coffin was hammered on the show she hosted.

  2. #122
    Outsider Glenn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Wilke View Post
    Yes, that's the northwest tip of Maui, just off the one-lane road from Kapalua to Wailuku.
    You lucky dog!!! Enjoy.

  3. #123
    CMF rrrr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike View Post

    Words are important. They inform and reveal everything.



    “Words: So innocent and powerless as they are, as standing in a dictionary, how potent for good and evil they become in the hands of one who knows how to combine them.”
    - Nathaniel Hawthorne

    I believe this to be the first time a quote by the creator of Hester Prynne has been posted on TrackForum.


  4. #124
    Insider MoparsRule's Avatar
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    Good for NBC for making the right call.

  5. #125
    Insider BADGER's Avatar
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    At least until his next f’up.

  6. #126
    Insider Defender's Avatar
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    The soap opera playing out here and elsewhere featuring tales of woe from all story-critical protagonists except ‘ol PT is utterly fascinating on a number of levels, and I do not mean this in any critical or condemning way. I learned a long time ago that there is no such thing as privacy on social media, regardless of the privacy degree established in any sort of profile configuration. Another learned-the-hard-way lesson is that if you do not want something to ever be shared, do not ever put it out there. Also remember that if you put something out there and then change your mind about it, it is too late.

    I also have direct experience on multiple occasions dealing with rodent-like humans whose grasp of even basic manners appears non-existent. One particular brush with unwanted mining and sharing of private photos and words began occurring, coincidentally, almost immediately after becoming ‘friends’ with a well-known racing writer who is also currently employed by NBCSN. This writer has a known history of ethical lapses involving electronic communication that cost him a gig or two along the way.

    In the broader scope, what I believe he did seems rather insignificant, and no real damage occurred. Specifically, photos and words were lifted from my ‘private’ Facebook page; i.e., friends only, and shared on one or two obscure IndyCar hate sites that amazingly still exist, all still firmly entrenched in 1997. Traffic to such sites remains microscopic, so I do not really have a problem with any of the 3rd grade level banter that oozed inside. My argument, like others in the thread, was rooted in principle. But again, given the relative obscurity of everyone and their little sites involved, none of it really mattered.

    Oddly, as an experiment, I ‘unfriended’ that social media acquaintance, then posted a sizeable number of personal and racing related photos to see whether they would also get mined and shared among fellow delinquents. None did. It has been a couple of years now, and removal of that one person remains the only difference between then and now. Funny how that works.

    My advice for those whose perception is that their privacy has been invaded is simply to let it go. In most cases such interaction could have been nipped in the nascent bud. About the only thing that results from making such behavior/accusations public is hyperbolic drama about which most bystanders will never care.

    If social media transgression is inevitable, exploit it.


    Supporting Indy Car racing since 1959

  7. #127
    Insider Nigel Red5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pchop69 View Post
    There's two parts to that question:

    1 - Do you believe Tracy's story that he was hacked and did not post the message. If so, you move on. This is what NBC has done. (At least publicly)
    2 - If you believe Tracy did post the message, then you have to do your own calculus on whether or not keeping him is worth it. You will lose some fans either way.
    How many people actually have/ had even a slight clue he posted anything? I want PT on the racing broadcast to provide his expert commentary and analysis as a former racer, not because of his social or political views. I still find it ironic he’s been run through the ringer over immigrant comments considering he’s an immigrant to this country himself.

  8. #128
    This is not the irony you're looking for *waves hand*

  9. #129

  10. #130
    Is Bat Boy KevMcNJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel Red5 View Post
    How many people actually have/ had even a slight clue he posted anything? I want PT on the racing broadcast to provide his expert commentary and analysis as a former racer, not because of his social or political views. I still find it ironic he’s been run through the ringer over immigrant comments considering he’s an immigrant to this country himself.
    Is he against all immigrants or just those who choose to ignore laws i assume he obeyed word for word?
    Live like Dave

  11. #131
    Insider Nigel Red5's Avatar
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    He seems pretty anti immigrant period to me to be honest.

  12. #132
    Insider Grizzlor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defender View Post
    The soap opera playing out here and elsewhere featuring tales of woe from all story-critical protagonists except ‘ol PT is utterly fascinating on a number of levels, and I do not mean this in any critical or condemning way. I learned a long time ago that there is no such thing as privacy on social media, regardless of the privacy degree established in any sort of profile configuration. Another learned-the-hard-way lesson is that if you do not want something to ever be shared, do not ever put it out there. Also remember that if you put something out there and then change your mind about it, it is too late.

    I also have direct experience on multiple occasions dealing with rodent-like humans whose grasp of even basic manners appears non-existent. One particular brush with unwanted mining and sharing of private photos and words began occurring, coincidentally, almost immediately after becoming ‘friends’ with a well-known racing writer who is also currently employed by NBCSN. This writer has a known history of ethical lapses involving electronic communication that cost him a gig or two along the way.

    In the broader scope, what I believe he did seems rather insignificant, and no real damage occurred. Specifically, photos and words were lifted from my ‘private’ Facebook page; i.e., friends only, and shared on one or two obscure IndyCar hate sites that amazingly still exist, all still firmly entrenched in 1997. Traffic to such sites remains microscopic, so I do not really have a problem with any of the 3rd grade level banter that oozed inside. My argument, like others in the thread, was rooted in principle. But again, given the relative obscurity of everyone and their little sites involved, none of it really mattered.

    Oddly, as an experiment, I ‘unfriended’ that social media acquaintance, then posted a sizeable number of personal and racing related photos to see whether they would also get mined and shared among fellow delinquents. None did. It has been a couple of years now, and removal of that one person remains the only difference between then and now. Funny how that works.

    My advice for those whose perception is that their privacy has been invaded is simply to let it go. In most cases such interaction could have been nipped in the nascent bud. About the only thing that results from making such behavior/accusations public is hyperbolic drama about which most bystanders will never care.

    If social media transgression is inevitable, exploit it.
    Do you post anything that isn't a glaring attack on someone? What possible point did that have in this? The complaint was that the reports failed to scrub the name of the 3rd party. I see NOTHING comparable in your whining.
    "If your car was a dog, then you had to figure it out and test your own limits. And we didn't go to a wind tunnel – we did it in the first turn at Indianapolis."

  13. #133
    Insider Defender's Avatar
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    I'm OK with and respect your opinion, but I fear you missed the point. I was going for a treatise on the downside of social media interaction with a select few, and potential pitfalls that can be encountered. I also offered a realistic solution; i.e., don't post anything unless you are willing to face consequences. It applies to contributors in this thread, people in the media, me, and everyone else who does this. That's all.

  14. #134
    There is no substitute. Spike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzlor View Post
    Do you post anything that isn't a glaring attack on someone?
    Hardly ever. All too often it's about dealings with people who are deemed to be inferior (you know the routine: rodent-like; lacking firing synapses; unmannered; not evolved; youthful enthusiasts), which means pretty much anyone who is not him, and how he rises above all that. Standard fare from the Defender playbook.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzlor View Post
    What possible point did that have in this?
    Ultimately, none at all. The point, to the extent there was one, was self-aggrandizement and yet another weak attempt to distract from earlier posts that were problematic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzlor View Post
    I see NOTHING comparable in your whining.
    Yep. Just an excess of words that said nothing at all.
    "I would really like to go to NASCAR. I really enjoy NASCAR and if I could be there in a couple of years that's where I'd want to be." - Jeff Gordon (after testing a Formula Super Vee)

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defender View Post
    My advice for those whose perception is that their privacy has been invaded is simply to let it go.
    And yet, instead of taking your own advice, we were subjected to the drawn-out story of how your suffered at the hands of some Facebook friend who took your 'private' photos.

    Quote Originally Posted by Defender View Post
    I'm OK with and respect your opinion, but I fear you missed the point.
    He didn't miss it because it wasn't there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Defender View Post
    I was going for a treatise on the downside of social media interaction with a select few, and potential pitfalls that can be encountered.
    Treatise? More like a rambling, self-serving manifesto.

    Quote Originally Posted by Defender View Post
    I also offered a realistic solution; i.e., don't post anything unless you are willing to face consequences.
    If only you'd written that instead of subjecting us to the needlessly verbose, passive aggressive and dizzying post that is post #126.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Spike View Post
    And yet, instead of taking your own advice, we were subjected to the drawn-out story of how your suffered at the hands of some Facebook friend who took your 'private' photos.

    He didn't miss it because it wasn't there.

    Treatise? More like a rambling, self-serving manifesto.

    If only you'd written that instead of subjecting us to the needlessly verbose, passive aggressive and dizzying post that is post #126.
    Ok ok... Let's not let a thread about one internet pissing contest that escalated too much turn into one itself.7

  17. #137
    My favorite part about a long manifesto about an unnamed protagonist on unnamed websites is it it seems to have nothing to do with the thread and I didn't understand a word of it.

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joeremi View Post
    My favorite part about a long manifesto about an unnamed protagonist on unnamed websites is it it seems to have nothing to do with the thread and I didn't understand a word of it.
    How can that be? You posted a response, in English. The post was in English. You understood every word. Put together to form sentences and, perhaps thoughts, maybe not so much.
    "The Internet. Where fools go to feel important" - Sir Charles Barkley

  19. #139
    Insider Unzerdog's Avatar
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    Spike's on a roll and I'm enjoying it. He is the first thing I check for when I log in. There is good reason to read these threads from back to front. Spike rarely starts threads, but he sure as heck finishes them. I learn alot more by reading a lot less.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat" -Teddy Roosevelt

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Joeremi View Post
    My favorite part about a long manifesto about an unnamed protagonist on unnamed websites is it it seems to have nothing to do with the thread and I didn't understand a word of it.
    Believe it or not I totally get what D is talking about. I remember a picture being passed around a few years back elsewhere that was not complimentary to him. Part of the silly games played over the net back then. He was very good at giving crap and admittedly good at receiving it back.
    Last edited by Colin Grigson; 12-31-2018 at 11:21 AM.
    RIP Justin! WWJCD

  21. #141
    Member #66 jandj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Grigson View Post
    Believe it or not I totally get what D is talking about. I remember a picture being passed around a few years back elsewhere that was not complimentary to him. Part of the silly games played over the net back then. He was very good at giving crap and admittedly good at receiving it back.
    With one foot in the grave, and one foot on the pedal, I was born a Rebel.

  22. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzlor View Post
    ... this "PT" wrote “No I have invited them all to a party at your house to listen to you play the mini guitar then they are going to rape your wife then you.” Obviously, this is not racist ...
    It's a reference to a racist trope that immigrants from certain countries are rapists, which has been common in the last few years. I think it's unlikely that the poster of that comment was unfamiliar with that reference, or its implications regarding the criminality of certain nationalities.


    On the other hand, the "PT" account was quickly made private and closed, which one might consider a panicked reaction. The real PT claimed it was a fake account, then admitted it was HIS account but it was hacked.
    There was a similarly unsavory post on Tracy's Twitter account a few years ago, and after facing a backlash, PT claimed his account had been hacked.

    Once is possibly believable (though "my account was hacked" rarely sounds believable to me), twice is starting to sound like a fake alibi he trots out every time he screws up on social media. The fact that he changed his story (first a fake account, then a hack of his real account) is extremely suspicious. Especially since it matches opinions he is know to hold.

    Quote Originally Posted by paper View Post
    being falsely accused is a very disturbing thing.
    Assuming the accusation is false ...
    Last edited by neti1; 12-31-2018 at 04:52 PM.

  23. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by KevMcNJ View Post
    As a nobody from nowhere I don't understand why people feel the need to get political on social media.

    No one ever changes their mind and basically half your friends think youre bonkers for having an opposite opinion on this or that hot button topic du jour.

    I have some friends I made here on TF who I KNOW are on the far opposite end of the political spectrum and I see no reason to annoy them and non-racing friends of mine by posting things I know will end up in an online mud fight.


    Theres occasion moments of weakness or bad judgement where I make comments but I do try and keep it light and dumb on my social media. Its easier that way. I cannot comprehend someone in the public eye deciding to go down that road when its not tens or dozens of followers getting annoyed but thousands or even millions.

    Keep it fun people!

    I make political posts on FaceBook for 2 reasons:
    1. Something outrageous happens which I find upsetting or infuriating, and I post to express my outrage, and to get support (because I know that virtually all my FaceBook friends share my political outlook).
    2. I'm also letting other people know about the situation because I know that many of them will take some action, so I know that my post will have some small positive effect.

    But I usually don't go off on a rant, and I certainly don't make comments remotely comparable to those which triggered the PT situation.

  24. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by happyscrappy-t View Post
    I have been truly disappointed by some of the things people I like and respect have said, and shared, on social media.
    Which bring up the question, can one continue to admire or respect someone who publicly advocates truly abhorrent things? I actually used to be a PT fan, until I discovered his political opinions. To be a fan I need to feel like the driver is a good person, both on and off the track.

    It's just sad to see such ignorance. Left or right, all the political BS is simply that.
    I may be misunderstanding your point, but I can't agree that politics is BS. It doesn't need to be discussed everywhere, but its effect on our lives is inescapable.

  25. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by GoFastNow View Post
    As the "mutual friend", what pissed me off was screenshots of my PRIVATE Facebook page being plastered all over the media with my name clearly visible, and in turn forcing me to have to answer for behaviors not of my own. I lost out on a dream job because you couldn't take the conversation private, and decided to take on the role of an SJW in this situation. I unfriended you because I needed to trust the people on my Facebook page to maintain the "private" status of the page.
    Actually, even within SJ circles it is considered highly uncool to post details of private Internet conversations without the permission of the participants. There's even a specific term for it ("friend-locked" or "flocked").

    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha4Mary View Post
    He talked about gang raping my wife. It wasnt me getting my feelings hurt. It was me seeing a high profile representative of a sport I love treating fans like this. It was disgusting, uncalled for, and unbecoming of a sport trying to stay relevant in the 21st century and having enough.
    I think your reaction to that extremely unsavory comment was reasonable, and I agree with your decision to inform NBC and IndyCar - I would probably have done the same in your situation.

    However you could have kept your other friend's name out of it, by blanking out identifying information in the screen caps. It's understandable for him to be upset about being dragged into a very public fight against his will.

  26. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Fury View Post
    It's amazing how many people are angry because they can't just go through life treating people like garbage anymore.
    +1000!

    To me, what gets called "PC" is just basic politeness and consideration for others.

    AFAICS, the term PC is used exclusively by those who resent the fact that there are consequences to acting like an a##hole in public.
    Last edited by neti1; 12-31-2018 at 05:39 PM.

  27. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Moid View Post
    So after reading this thread, does anyone actually believe he was hacked? Wonder if anyone at NBCSN is listening.
    To answer your question, I never did believe he was hacked. This thread just confirmed my initial assumption.

    Frankly, I thinking the hacking story was just to give NBC a cover story to justify keeping a popular commentator. I doubt NBC actually believe it - but they have to put on a public pretense so they don't appear to be condoning his actions.

  28. #148
    hero pup happyscrappy-t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neti1 View Post
    Which bring up the question, can one continue to admire or respect someone who publicly advocates truly abhorrent things? I actually used to be a PT fan, until I discovered his political opinions. To be a fan I need to feel like the driver is a good person, both on and off the track.
    None of the people in my life that I was referring to advocate for anything violent, or resort to the level of suggesting that bad things should happen to anyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by neti1 View Post
    I may be misunderstanding your point, but I can't agree that politics is BS. It doesn't need to be discussed everywhere, but its effect on our lives is inescapable.
    Using rude nicknames, making inflammatory comments based on appearance, intentionally repeating things that are obviously false, but make the other side look bad, ignoring known facts because it doesn't fit their agenda, ect. That is what I call BS.

    I separate the game from the person I really know. I just ignore the BS, because I know it is mostly just that. They want to win the argument against anyone who will listen. I don't play.

    I see it equally from the left and right, and do my best to ignore it all.

    I try to bite my tongue and fingers around here when the racing political BS machines fire up. Sometimes I can't resist, but I have typed many witty responses that get canceled rather than posted.
    "He went into a tire barrier, which is certainly the nicest of all the barriers." -Bobby Unser, Denver '90

  29. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Defender View Post
    I guess I'm in the minority here. As a firm believer in free speech in/on whatever platform is used, Tracy or anyone else should be free to express whatever opinions they want, whether they are perceived as racist, insensitive, bigoted or whatever. Robin Miller has always been big on touting the beneficial effects of controversary on the relative popularity of the sport, and perhaps there is something to that notion. Personally, I do not care for Tracy. He still comes off as a petulant blowhard. I have never felt any need to interject any subjective pronouncement about his job, though. The fact that he arouses so much angst is perhaps even commendable.
    I find this an interesting debate. On one hand, I recall being disturbed by a news article reporting some low level employees of a company being fired because they had Obama 2012 stickers on their cars. They weren't fired because the owner feared negative consequences from the presence of those stickers, but because he was angry at the results of the 2012 election, and wanted to punish any employee who he believed might have contributed to that result.

    OTOH, several big companies have suffered significant PR damage due to offensive statements by very high profile employees. Which makes me wonder if a law could differentiate between a company's desire to rectify genuine damage to their public image, as opposed to an inappropriate attempt to control the private behavior of their employees. One obvious method would be to forbid firing employees for their privately expressed opinions unless the company can clearly demonstrate harm to their business. For example, I've seen stories of employees getting fired after launching into racist tirades which received major media coverage. That seems reasonable as it involved behavior which is pretty universally considered unacceptable, and the company suffered adverse publicity as a result. One could also argue that awareness of such behavior might cause a contentious work environment.

    In the case of the bumper stickers, OTOH, the company had suffered no adverse publicity or any other form of harm. If anything, it was the act of firing people for legitimate (and socially acceptable) political activity which caused damage to their public image. So this hypothetical law would, in that case, come down on the side of the fired employees.

    Other means of differentiation could be to single out actions taken in an official capacity (e.g. a press conference), or private actions in which the employee identified themselves as a representative or associate of the company concerned. Or to limit the private speech protections to low-profile employees.

    But it is dangerous ground, as the case of the bumper stickers demonstrates.

    Quote Originally Posted by Defender View Post
    I would simply advise that sensitivity and subjectivity has increased dramatically in recent years, and that entire careers regularly end for uttering far less callous words that selectively offend casual bystanders who feel compelled to interject their feelings.
    There's more to it than somebody being puritanical about words. You have to recall that racist speech has a very different effect on minorities than on those of us who happen to be white.

    You may write this off as simply requiring a thicker skin, but you haven't had to bear the brunt of comments like that your entire life, often from people who have power over you. The cumulative effect of repeatedly hearing (by implication or explicitly) that you're inferior significantly damages mental health; especially when one has experienced the concrete consequences of the attitude behind such comments (discrimination and sometimes even violence).

    In other words, it's easy to dismiss such concerns as over-sensitivity when you're privileged enough to never (or rarely) be the target.
    Last edited by neti1; 12-31-2018 at 07:30 PM.

  30. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by KevMcNJ View Post
    Is he against all immigrants or just those who choose to ignore laws i assume he obeyed word for word?
    He's opposed to immigrants of certain ethnic origins.

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