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Thread: IndyCar to offer more rear wing options at superspeedway races

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    Insider mdkiel's Avatar
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    IndyCar to offer more rear wing options at superspeedway races

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    Registered User Bobcat00's Avatar
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    "IndyCar has approved the 50- and 100-pound flaps for Indy, and all three for Pocono. The pieces are not permitted at Texas Motor Speedway."

    Interesting that they allow different options for the different tracks. I wonder why they just don't allow the teams to change the rear wing angle more.

    Also note that last year at Pocono, they allowed teams to add bits to the front wings.

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    Uncle Bobby? slompappy's Avatar
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    Sounds like the drives complaining because the car was too hard to drive which is exactly what they were going for


    I thought last years 500 was a good race
    "I wasn't going to finish 2nd today...2nd was not in the cards...I was either going to win or i was not going to finish at all..." Eddie Cheever-Victory Lane,Indianapolis Motor Speedway 1998

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    Registered User Pole Day's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slompappy View Post
    Sounds like the drives complaining because the car was too hard to drive which is exactly what they were going for


    I thought last years 500 was a good race
    I didn't

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat00 View Post
    "IndyCar has approved the 50- and 100-pound flaps for Indy, and all three for Pocono. The pieces are not permitted at Texas Motor Speedway."

    Interesting that they allow different options for the different tracks. I wonder why they just don't allow the teams to change the rear wing angle more.

    Also note that last year at Pocono, they allowed teams to add bits to the front wings.
    I think it's because they want the wickers to punch a little bigger hole in the air.

    Allowing for more wing angle may not increase the hole size enough to what they want.

    I prefer more wing angle if the wing can handle more without stalling.

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    I love this sport so much dalz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat00 View Post
    nteresting that they allow different options for the different tracks. I wonder why they just don't allow the teams to change the rear wing angle more.
    I know changes in wing angle significantly changes the amount of downforce made by the underside diffuser, so maybe the wickers affect that less, and they don't want underside DF to get get too high again. I dunno.
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    Registered User Bobcat00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalz View Post
    changes in wing angle significantly changes the amount of downforce made by the underside diffuser,
    Interesting.

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    Registered User heliogordy's Avatar
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    This type of thread is my favorite...I hope it becomes several pages long, because some of you guys have a lot of technical knowledge that you share...I usually learn quite a bit.

    I GET that it's spec and it's not the past eras, but I'm for anything that gives the teams MORE options to try different things. Do you technical gurus think this will have much, if any impact on the racing at these venues?
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    Insider BADGER's Avatar
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    Gurney flaps allow a wing to run a higher angle of attack without flow separation so perhaps the speedway wing had a narrow operating range and the flap extends it. It could be the gurney flap generates the extra downforce more effieciently than increasing the wing angle. Flaps provide good downforce for little extra drag.

    Will it help?

    It can't hurt, though from my memory, most drivers complained about the front end washing out when following other cars. If that is the case, it would not seem to address the main issue which would be loss of downforce at the front.

    Racer is reporting the front wing will be changed in order to improve it in traffic.
    Last edited by BADGER; 01-30-2019 at 09:40 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slompappy View Post


    I thought last years 500 was a good race
    Me too...none of that meaningless artificial passing created by the aerokits....ballsy drives..especially Rossi's... IMO the best 500 of the DW-12 era
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    Quote Originally Posted by BSJracing View Post
    Me too...none of that meaningless artificial passing created by the aerokits....ballsy drives..especially Rossi's... IMO the best 500 of the DW-12 era
    For the casual fan like my girlfriend, she was more entertained by the 2017 style of racing. For me and our family of hardcore racers, we really enjoyed the 2018 style of racing at the '500. To each their own.
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    Insider Chris Paff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slompappy View Post
    Sounds like the drives complaining because the car was too hard to drive which is exactly what they were going for


    I thought last years 500 was a good race
    I don't know how? They could not pass at all after the first 2-3 after pit stops
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    Insider Chris Paff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BSJracing View Post
    Me too...none of that meaningless artificial passing created by the aerokits....ballsy drives..especially Rossi's... IMO the best 500 of the DW-12 era
    It was one of the worst Indy 500's I have ever seen.. Pocono was even worse

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    Insider mdkiel's Avatar
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    I can enjoy either type of racing. I still maintain that the last 15 laps of the 2015 500 (aerokit era) were some of the best racing I have ever seen there. They weren't meaningless passes, three top drivers going all out to win the race of their lives.

    What I don't like are extremes in either direction. Most say the amount of passes in the '13 500 were ridiculous and I tend to agree. On the other end of the spectrum, I was at last year's Pocono 500 and I agree it was processional to the point of being tedious.

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    Insider mdkiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BSJracing View Post
    Me too...none of that meaningless artificial passing created by the aerokits....ballsy drives..especially Rossi's... IMO the best 500 of the DW-12 era
    All of Rossi's passes came on the first lap of restarts. Some purists would say those are artificial too.

  16. #16
    More adjustment options. Never a bad thing.
    Still we don't know if the front wing pieces added at Pocono will be allowed at Indy. Or if the underwing strakes allowed at Pocono will be allowed at Indy.
    Texas is a different deal however. At Texas the order of the day seems to be to de energize the underwing and limit the wing downforce. This keeps cars from running side by side for hours on end.

    The wicker bill as Uncle Bobby called them, or Gurney flap is another good adjustment option.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurney_flap
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    Insider Chris Paff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdkiel View Post
    All of Rossi's passes came on the first lap of restarts. Some purists would say those are artificial too.
    Exactly, after the first 2-3 laps then it was nose to tail with zero passing.. If Wilson & Servia didnt have to pit Power was not getting by them even tho he was much faster..

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    Quote Originally Posted by BADGER View Post
    It can't hurt, though from my memory, most drivers complained about the front end washing out when following other cars. If that is the case, it would not seem to address the main issue which would be loss of downforce at the front.
    I thought they tested new pieces for the front wing in the last test at IMS....similar to the ones they allowed at Pocono this past year. Have they decided if those were going to be run in May?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RacingPortaJohn View Post
    I thought they tested new pieces for the front wing in the last test at IMS....similar to the ones they allowed at Pocono this past year. Have they decided if those were going to be run in May?
    I think they also tested with different front wings. I remember seeing a picture of one of the cars with front wing end plates that looked like they were from the Honda aero kit front wing. Never heard what determinations that were made as a result of that test.

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    Registered User Pole Day's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BSJracing View Post
    Me too...none of that meaningless artificial passing created by the aerokits....ballsy drives..especially Rossi's... IMO the best 500 of the DW-12 era
    The type of racing we had back in the day when a 1 dollar part could determine the winner was fine by me but these cars are so trouble free and computer driven that the race became a follow the leader race. It's entertainment nothing more nothing less. Three fourth of the stands at Indy are filled with casual fans, put on show don't put me to sleep.
    The NBA,NFL,MLB are all manufactured to create excitement. If IndyCar wants to grow fans they have to create that same excitement. Thinking back to 70 -80s type of racing is not going to do that.

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    Registered User uscman3's Avatar
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    While I did appreciate the increased difficulty with 2018's aero kit, the teams had very few options to help the cars combat near-record high temperatures on race day. For example, they could add wicker and front wing angle all that they wanted but there was no way to balance out the additions in front downforce with rear downforce since wing angle was a) inefficient and b) not enough to compensate for front wing changes.

    Drivers had to have more front wing angle just to hang on in traffic but eventually all of that front downforce (oversteer) made the rear end very light and unpredictable, which is why you saw veterans like Castroneves, Kanaan, Bourdais and others lose control of their cars all on their own. There were many single-car crashes this past May and something needed to be done to at least give teams options in 2019. Hopefully the temperature isn't so high on May 26, becuase that would have solved (masked) a lot of the problems.
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    Registered User dwaldrep51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Paff View Post
    I don't know how? They could not pass at all after the first 2-3 after pit stops
    I suppose the people who miss large parts of the race because of lines at concessions or restroom can feel like 2018 was better because they missed less of the exciting racing.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Pole Day View Post
    I didn't
    I liked it, great race.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slompappy View Post
    Sounds like the drives complaining because the car was too hard to drive which is exactly what they were going for
    Series management was not trying to make the cars too hard to drive (or even hard to drive). What the drivers and teams complained about was that the aero package and setting limitations under the rules made the cars unpredictable; prone to snap oversteer on their own and subject to front end washout in traffic.
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    Indy/Ovalcentric SactoIndyFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Paff View Post
    It was one of the worst Indy 500's I have ever seen.. Pocono was even worse
    Yep, except for Rossi's drive to the front. That was impressive.
    RIP Dan Wheldon :(

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    Quote Originally Posted by dalz View Post
    I know changes in wing angle significantly changes the amount of downforce made by the underside diffuser...
    Generally speaking, the things that have the greatest effect on underbody downforce are ride height and chassis rake (angle of the car in relation to the track surface). I doubt the limited range of angle of attack adjustment allowed on that oh-so-small rear wing on the 2018 spec aero kit had much, if any, effect on underbody downforce. Besides the wing having such a small amount of surface area, it sits well above and behind the diffused exit which further limits any aerodynamic interaction between the two.
    Last edited by Spike; 01-18-2019 at 03:35 PM.

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    Uncle Bobby? slompappy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwaldrep51 View Post
    I suppose the people who miss large parts of the race because of lines at concessions or restroom can feel like 2018 was better because they missed less of the exciting racing.
    I was in my seat for every green lap

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    Uncle Bobby? slompappy's Avatar
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    I do really like the idea that they are gonna have more options in a search for speed in practice for qualifying

  29. #29
    More front wing options. The front wing pocono parts are back, but new will be a notch to the front wing.

    IndyCar did some CFD work to find why it wasn’t easy to follow other cars, and one of the studies found the air separated at the edge of the wing next to the end plate, where it stalls, and the solution they came up with was to shorten the cord at the ends of the wing by cutting out the notches, which reduces the stall, cleans up the air and makes the front wing more efficient and consistent for the drivers in traffic.

    https://racer.com/2019/01/18/indycar...t-wing-tweaks/

  30. #30
    Registered User dwaldrep51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slompappy View Post
    I do really like the idea that they are gonna have more options in a search for speed in practice for qualifying
    They can run 4 laps with new tires, low fuel and no traffic flat out without the wickers.
    Unless the weather is crazy on qualifying weekend, I doubt anyone will use them for qualifying.

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