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Thread: Clash race

  1. #61
    I love this sport so much dalz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorindy View Post
    I don't like it either way, but doing it at 200+ on a plate track (and triggering a Big One) is a bit different than Rattling His Cage at Bristol.
    Dale Sr. did win a Daytona race just like Dillon once--an IROC race where he bulldozed Al Unser Jr. out of the way. 1995(?), the first year of the Dodge Avengers. But it wasn't malicious--Dale was getting sucked in after the perfect 2-car length lead out, and Al unwisely tried to block the "freight train a-comin'" as Dale said. Neither driver was happy about how it turned out.
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  2. #62
    Insider MoparsRule's Avatar
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    Menard won’t make that mistake again..... who am I kidding, he probably will.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by KevMcNJ View Post
    Which is why theres no reason to get all twisted up that theyre 150s instead of 125s now.

    I forget who or when it was but drivers started making it all the way without having to pit so they bumped it up so you had to refuel

    No big deal even if "Twin 125s" rolls off the tongue easier.
    When they went to restrictor plates in 1988, that's when they started being able to go the whole 50 laps/125 miles without pitting. They even had a bunch of them go without a yellow. No cautions, no pit stops, end up a total procession.

    Then in 2003 they went to the smaller fuel tanks on plate tracks, which effectively required a pit stop. Then in 2005 they made them 150s...I don't think to force another pit stop, but just to make them a little longer for the fans, etc.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by dalz View Post
    Dale Sr. did win a Daytona race just like Dillon once--an IROC race where he bulldozed Al Unser Jr. out of the way. 1995(?), the first year of the Dodge Avengers. But it wasn't malicious
    But Dale did wreck Al Jr. out of the way in the 1993 Daytona 500 in a move that could be perceived as malicious. Dale drove with zero regard for the safety of his fellow drivers and was a hero for some reason because of that.
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveL View Post
    Dale drove with zero regard for the safety of his fellow drivers
    Strongly agree.


    I think more drivers with far less God given talent than Dale had drive the same way now but these days it seems like its beyond their comprehension that someone could get seriously injured.

    Better cars, walls, fencing, seats, helmets, etc will make you a lot more brave (reckless) I guess.

    I cannot imagine strapping in at Daytona or Michigan in a 1980s or 1990s car with an open face helmet, a seat that ended around your armpits and 14" thick concrete ringing the high groove.
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  6. #66
    Indy is my life Larrymgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorindy View Post
    Yes, it appears Daytona 500 Pole Qualifying always was the weekend before (either the Saturday or the Sunday) in a twin bill with ARCA. Heck, in 1970, pole qualifying was two weekends before the race. I guess for some reason I had it in my mind that prior to the Busch Clash years that pole quals were Tuesday/Wednesday, but I'm not seeing any year that it was. They did have second round (and maybe even third round) qualifying up through the 90s. Drivers could try to get at least a better time so if they didn't transfer from the 125's, they could fall back on a better lap.

    So in summary...

    From 1971-on (the year the race was first firmly planted on Presidents Day weekend)...

    -First weekend was ARCA and Cup pole qualifying. For a time it was pole quals. on Saturday, and ARCA on Sunday. But some years both were held Sunday. One year they had a Formula Ford race too on the road course.
    -The Busch Clash was added in 1979 (usually Sunday). Starting there, pole quals were usually Saturday, Clash Sunday, ARCA Sunday.
    -Mon/Tues/Wed (varies) was second round Cup qualifying and Sportsman/Busch series qualifying
    -Thursday was the Twin 125s
    -Friday was IROC....(later on the Trucks took Friday)
    -Saturday was the Sportsman/Busch 300 as well as Happy Hour practice
    -Sunday Daytona 500
    There were three rounds at least in the late 80s and early 90s. I don't know how far it went back. It was phased out (the three rounds) when series wide changes were happening around '93

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larrymgs View Post
    There were three rounds at least in the late 80s and early 90s. I don't know how far it went back. It was phased out (the three rounds) when series wide changes were happening around '93
    I think they may have still had it on the schedule (though not always used) as late as 1997/1998 but of course there's nothing on the internet to look at to prove it. All the speedweeks footage that was on Youtube has been systematically pulled minus a couple outliers for some ungodly reason. They were still running 2nd round qualifying of Goody's Dash and Busch verifiably up until at least 1999.

  8. #68
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    I remember 2nd round qualifying being more or less a non-event at many races back in the day.

    Oh it was scheduled and it was run off as scheduled but often 2nd round qualifying had just a small handful of go or go homers who had no choice but to try and improve their time.

    This was when more often than not you had 3-6 drivers not qualifying every week.

    IIRC 2nd round qualies could be knocked out in minutes some of the time.

    I think they had 2nd round qualifying tied into the Winston Open race at one time too.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by KevMcNJ View Post
    I remember 2nd round qualifying being more or less a non-event at many races back in the day.

    Oh it was scheduled and it was run off as scheduled but often 2nd round qualifying had just a small handful of go or go homers who had no choice but to try and improve their time.

    This was when more often than not you had 3-6 drivers not qualifying every week.

    IIRC 2nd round qualies could be knocked out in minutes some of the time.

    I think they had 2nd round qualifying tied into the Winston Open race at one time too.
    In races other than the Daytona 500, second round qualifying was mostly uneventful. Pole qualifying locked in the top 20 cars (later on it was 25). Then for second round qualifying, you could stand on your time, or erase it and go out a second time. Obviously the teams would look at how many cars were entered and do the simple math -- those that could not possibly slip down past 40th place (or whatever the lowest qualifier by speed was), would stand on their time. They might have less than 10 cars actually make an attempt in second round qualifying, and sometimes the grid changed very little from one day to the next. It was seldom the most riveting session. Only a race like the 1994 BY400 or something like that had much excitement to second round quals.

    The fastest qualifier in second round qualifying...(not sure if standing on your time counted...or if you had to go out and actually run)...was entered into the blind draw for the Wild Card starting position at the following year's Busch Clash (aka Bud Shootout). Then later on, instead of a blind draw, they decided to allow those guys to run a short qualifying race to advance to the Bud Shootout/Clash.

    Then they ditched second round qualifying altogether in 2001. IIRC, they made up for it by giving cars a best-of-two laps in the lone first round.


    The Winston Open was different. The race winners qualified for The Winston...then basically everybody else was entered into the Winston Open...with the winner advancing to the main event.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by DaveL View Post
    Dale drove with zero regard for the safety of his fellow drivers and was a hero for some reason because of that.
    Disagree...he was an old school, give no quarter - ask for no quarter race driver. Folks like to be entertained with that style... No, people did not like him because he disregarded the safety of other drivers, that's silly.

  11. #71
    I was at 2nd round quals for the inaugural brickyard. It took like 3 hours to complete. 80 some cars were entered as I recall

    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorindy View Post
    In races other than the Daytona 500, second round qualifying was mostly uneventful. Pole qualifying locked in the top 20 cars (later on it was 25). Then for second round qualifying, you could stand on your time, or erase it and go out a second time. Obviously the teams would look at how many cars were entered and do the simple math -- those that could not possibly slip down past 40th place (or whatever the lowest qualifier by speed was), would stand on their time. They might have less than 10 cars actually make an attempt in second round qualifying, and sometimes the grid changed very little from one day to the next. It was seldom the most riveting session. Only a race like the 1994 BY400 or something like that had much excitement to second round quals.

    The fastest qualifier in second round qualifying...(not sure if standing on your time counted...or if you had to go out and actually run)...was entered into the blind draw for the Wild Card starting position at the following year's Busch Clash (aka Bud Shootout). Then later on, instead of a blind draw, they decided to allow those guys to run a short qualifying race to advance to the Bud Shootout/Clash.

    Then they ditched second round qualifying altogether in 2001. IIRC, they made up for it by giving cars a best-of-two laps in the lone first round.


    The Winston Open was different. The race winners qualified for The Winston...then basically everybody else was entered into the Winston Open...with the winner advancing to the main event.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorindy View Post
    Yes, it appears Daytona 500 Pole Qualifying always was the weekend before (either the Saturday or the Sunday) in a twin bill with ARCA. Heck, in 1970, pole qualifying was two weekends before the race. I guess for some reason I had it in my mind that prior to the Busch Clash years that pole quals were Tuesday/Wednesday, but I'm not seeing any year that it was. They did have second round (and maybe even third round) qualifying up through the 90s. Drivers could try to get at least a better time so if they didn't transfer from the 125's, they could fall back on a better lap.

    So in summary...

    From 1971-on (the year the race was first firmly planted on Presidents Day weekend)...

    -First weekend was ARCA and Cup pole qualifying. For a time it was pole quals. on Saturday, and ARCA on Sunday. But some years both were held Sunday. One year they had a Formula Ford race too on the road course.
    -The Busch Clash was added in 1979 (usually Sunday). Starting there, pole quals were usually Saturday, Clash Sunday, ARCA Sunday.
    -Mon/Tues/Wed (varies) was second round Cup qualifying and Sportsman/Busch series qualifying
    -Thursday was the Twin 125s
    -Friday was IROC....(later on the Trucks took Friday)
    -Saturday was the Sportsman/Busch 300 as well as Happy Hour practice
    -Sunday Daytona 500
    For quite a while the Dash Series ran on Friday afternoon along with consolation race for the Cup cars(with IROC being with both of them for a while). The consolation race went away sometime in the 80's then the Dash Series got moved to the weekend of time trials\Shootout when the Trucks took over the Friday slot.(then Dash went way completely)

  13. #73
    Is Bat Boy KevMcNJ's Avatar
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    The consolation race went away after 1984.

    There was a couple vicious wrecks so i think they decided it wasn't worth doing

  14. #74
    I love this sport so much dalz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveL View Post
    But Dale did wreck Al Jr. out of the way in the 1993 Daytona 500 in a move that could be perceived as malicious.
    I've debated that one; I thought Dale was at fault but now maybe it was a racin' deal. Dale tried to take Al on the high side 3-wide--very tough at the time--and failed to clear him by a foot. After that, if Al tried to slam the door I'm sure Dale wouldn't take it. Video is inconclusive.

    Dale drove with zero regard for the safety of his fellow drivers....
    A NY Times article said it best...he was a ruthless, give-no-quarter driver. He was a borderline dirty driver.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevMcNJ View Post
    Which is why theres no reason to get all twisted up that theyre 150s instead of 125s now.

    No big deal even if "Twin 125s" rolls off the tongue easier.
    Don't you realize that one is supposed to rage if something, anything, is different than what they remember. It doesn't matter if it was different before they remember, or that it changed to what they remember

    Glad to see the "Dash" series and consolation race mentioned, but I've seen no mention of the modified race that was part of "Speedweeks" for a few years in the late 70s, which used the road course.
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  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by JThur1 View Post
    Don't you realize that one is supposed to rage if something, anything, is different than what they remember.
    Oh Im prone to fits of rage when it comes to NASCAR but had they not bumped it up another 10 laps it would two fuel economy runs every February.

    Sometimes knee jerk reactions take a back seat to logical decision making even with these clowns running things.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoparsRule View Post
    Menard won’t make that mistake again..... who am I kidding, he probably will.
    What mistake was that, letting Johnson turn him on the straightaway again?
    World's biggest Ryan Hunter-Reay fan!

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  18. #78
    I love this sport so much dalz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JThur1 View Post
    Glad to see the "Dash" series and consolation race mentioned, but I've seen no mention of the modified race that was part of "Speedweeks" for a few years in the late 70s, which used the road course.
    Wow, didn't know that. So they just made an oval out of a leg of the old RC section, I'll guess the bigger leg that's long gone?

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by dalz View Post



    A NY Times article said it best...He was a borderline dirty driver.
    Hey, the Pres and I agree, if the NY Times says it, it's probably fake news! lol

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevMcNJ View Post
    Oh Im prone to fits of rage when it comes to NASCAR but had they not bumped it up another 10 laps it would two fuel economy runs every February.

    Sometimes knee jerk reactions take a back seat to logical decision making even with these clowns running things.
    It wasn't aimed at you Kev, more a comment about the general state of outrage (and how people tend to rage over things "not being the same" even when they weren't ). I was concurring with your comment that it isn't worth getting upset over and simply quoting your post so folks would know what I was referring to, since the discussion has kind of moved around a lot since.

  21. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalz View Post
    Wow, didn't know that. So they just made an oval out of a leg of the old RC section, I'll guess the bigger leg that's long gone?
    They didn't make an oval out of the road course, they raced on the old road course. At least the modifieds did for the first few races/years. Then, they switched to the oval for a few years before being replaced by the Dash series.

  22. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by JThur1 View Post
    It wasn't aimed at you Kev, more a comment about the general state of outrage (and how people tend to rage over things "not being the same" even when they weren't ). I was concurring with your comment that it isn't worth getting upset over and simply quoting your post so folks would know what I was referring to, since the discussion has kind of moved around a lot since.
    No worries. No offense taken.

  23. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by JThur1 View Post
    Then, they switched to the oval for a few years before being replaced by the Dash series.
    The Goodys Dash cars were just too small and too slow for Daytona back then IMHO.

    I saw them there in 1985 and I forget the lap times but they were noticeably slower than the Busch, IROC and Cup cars that also raced then.

  24. #84
    I love this sport so much dalz's Avatar
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    The Dash eventually had restrictor plates for Daytona as their lap speeds approached 180.

    I can't let the modified revelation go. They had to get going pretty fast on the speedway. Did they use the infield section counter-clockwise as a modified oval? I know there was a small road between the infield entry and exit that made that possible.

  25. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by KevMcNJ View Post
    The consolation race went away after 1984.

    There was a couple vicious wrecks so i think they decided it wasn't worth doing
    Those consolation races were the cars/drivers from the bottom of the barrel, and in the 70s and 80s, the bottom of the barrel was really low. Failed to qualify out of the Twins and failed to qualify on speed. Typically older cars, less-experienced drivers, wide disparity even within themselves.

  26. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalz View Post
    The Dash eventually had restrictor plates for Daytona as their lap speeds approached 180.

    I can't let the modified revelation go. They had to get going pretty fast on the speedway. Did they use the infield section counter-clockwise as a modified oval? I know there was a small road between the infield entry and exit that made that possible.
    No, they just ran the road course, the way it was run for the 24 Hours or the Daytona 200 motorcycle race at the time.

    Here's an article on it (good to know my recall was pretty good):
    https://speedsport.com/racing-histor...nt-l-speedway/

    And, some highlights of the first race (1974) as seen on the Car & Track TV series:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fod9-vLT3k

  27. #87
    Trucks just finished 10 and half of those had damage. Can't blame the guys in the duels for doing nothing but riding after that carnage.

  28. #88
    I love this sport so much dalz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JThur1 View Post
    No, they just ran the road course, the way it was run for the 24 Hours or the Daytona 200 motorcycle race at the time.

    Here's an article on it (good to know my recall was pretty good):
    https://speedsport.com/racing-histor...nt-l-speedway/

    And, some highlights of the first race (1974) as seen on the Car & Track TV series:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fod9-vLT3k
    Wow, thank you! That's the discovery of the year so far for me, and I don't think it will be topped.

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