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Thread: Clash race

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by vigo003 View Post
    Even better interview with Pockrass where he does call out Jimmie for causing at least one crash every plate race. He is not far off. Just look up Jimmie Johnson causes big one and you get several different years and races.
    He was really bad in the early part of his career. There was one race at Talladega that he wiped out a bunch of guys by moving up a lane on someone, and I ended up getting in a big argument with someone on the Speed Channel boards about it.

    His aggression would be admirable if he wasn't such a general tool about it, he always tries to deny responsibility rather than admit he played a role in it. Just saying, "I went for a pass and I guess the side draft pulled him around," would be a big improvement on always blaming the other guy. Gordon used to be the same way, TBH.

    Unfortunately, I don't know what NASCAR can do about situations like yesterday. JJ arguably instigated the wreck that both ended the race and put him in the lead, but because it wasn't clearly deliberately aggressive there's no real mechanism to penalize him, and besides, they let Dillon get away with worse a year ago. It just feels like bad precedent, though. If I know race-ending rain is coming, just pull a dangerous banzai move on the leader - if I wreck the field, take the lead, and there's a caution, then it starts to rain...well then, NASCAR has to declare me the winner.

  2. #32
    TrackForum Junkie CrewChief's Avatar
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    Man the late 80's and early to mid 90's this was my favorite time of year. Couldn't wait for the Clash and seeing all the new paint schemes in Winston Cup Scene. If I wasn't headed to Florida the following weekend to go to the race with my dad it was always a full day affair on the couch with a 2 liter of Mt Dew and a large hoagie. Now honestly if I hadn't jumped on here I wouldn't have even remembered it was this weekend. My son has a basketball tournament next weekend that will take up my Saturday and Sunday and that's fine, I'll watch the highlight of the big one with 10 to go and overtime and that is plenty for me.

    Is it May yet ?

  3. #33
    Is Bat Boy KevMcNJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrewChief View Post
    and a large hoagie. .
    With vinegar and oil and hold the mayo Im sure. And no one called it a sub.


    Quote Originally Posted by CrewChief View Post
    Man the late 80's and early to mid 90's this was my favorite time of year. Couldn't wait for the Clash and seeing all the new paint schemes in Winston Cup Scene.
    We had the same experiences growing up for sure. I passed on Daytona 500 parties a couple times so I could sit home alone and watch the race with no distractions.
    Live like Dave

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by ACCP View Post
    Unfortunately, I don't know what NASCAR can do about situations like yesterday. JJ arguably instigated the wreck that both ended the race and put him in the lead, but because it wasn't clearly deliberately aggressive there's no real mechanism to penalize him, and besides, they let Dillon get away with worse a year ago. It just feels like bad precedent, though.
    Unlike every other professional series, there's nothing in the NASCAR rule book that I know of that addresses avoidable contact. It has been well established that in NASCAR anything goes, if you want to punt someone you can and NASCAR will do nothing (maybe you'll get a fine).

    As for the incident, it's not NASCAR's fault two professionals can't drive in a straight line without crashing into each other. The fact that the rest of the field was wiped out is the product of pack racing, which NASCAR wants.
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  5. #35
    A friend of Hal. midtown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevMcNJ View Post
    With vinegar and oil and hold the mayo Im sure. And no one called it a sub.
    Sounds like Mike's Way at Jersey Mikes. And they're called subs there.

    https://www.jerseymikes.com/franchise/mikes-way
    It's a Hoosier thing, you wouldn't understand...

  6. #36
    TrackForum Junkie CrewChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevMcNJ View Post
    With vinegar and oil and hold the mayo Im sure. And no one called it a sub.
    Is there any other way ? I still judge any new pizza place on a slice of sausage pizza and an Italian hoagie. Tried a new place near Freddy's teams indoor soccer field a few weeks ago, won't be headed back. I feel for you guys down south, you need to find a good northern transplant to find a good pizza/hoagie shop. I will say for a chain Primo hoagie is pretty damn good, they are mainly southeast PA and NJ but I think they have now opened a couple in the Carolinas and maybe Florida.



    Quote Originally Posted by KevMcNJ View Post
    We had the same experiences growing up for sure. I passed on Daytona 500 parties a couple times so I could sit home alone and watch the race with no distractions.
    Only time we ever did a watch party was with a couple of my racing buddies from college, one of which used to volunteer on on any team Jimmy Makar was involved with. So they understood watching a race.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by midtown View Post
    Sounds like Mike's Way at Jersey Mikes. And they're called subs there.

    https://www.jerseymikes.com/franchise/mikes-way
    EXACTLY friend. Mikes way is how it's done in NJ/PA

  8. #38
    Insider DavidM's Avatar
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    Why does this race need to be 75 laps? It never should have changed.

    Look at this time line on how this race evolved, it like a microcosm of how NASCAR has "lost it way"!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanc...979–1990
    "If you don't do it this year, you'll be another year older when you do"

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  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidM View Post
    Why does this race need to be 75 laps?
    To fill TV time. It's not enough for NASCAR to have a race, it must be an extravaganza.

  10. #40
    I love this sport so much dalz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevMcNJ View Post
    With vinegar and oil and hold the mayo Im sure. And no one called it a sub.

    We had the same experiences growing up for sure. I passed on Daytona 500 parties a couple times so I could sit home alone and watch the race with no distractions.
    Hold the mayo?!? Not in WI.

    I quit going to "racing parties" at bars and such because I suffered idiots poorly and got sick of friends looking at me and saying, "Wow look at him watch and concentrate...(snicker)"

    Bad news if drivers like Menard are not your thing...at this rate I don't doubt there are important people discussing how to fast-track Natalie Decker into a Hendrick or SHR Cup seat....
    "If you see you're gonna miss, grit your teeth."--Evel Knievel

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidM View Post
    Why does this race need to be 75 laps? It never should have changed.
    20 laps is probably too little, but 75 is probably too much. I'd say 50 laps would be just right (segments 30 laps & 20 laps).

    Or they could just get rid of it altogether. They already have an exhibition race in May, do they still really need two?

    They tried packaging Pole Qualifying and the Clash on the same day...(prior to last year, they were almost always on different days)...it didn't appear to do anything for attendance. In fact, I think some of those Alliance Football games had bigger crowds than Daytona did yesterday. Will the day come when Daytona goes back to one weekend? They're going to have to look deep and decide if they really need two weekends anymore. Some "belt-tightening" may be in order.

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorindy View Post
    20 laps is probably too little, but 75 is probably too much. I'd say 50 laps would be just right (segments 30 laps & 20 laps).
    What do you need segments for? Just have a race, first across the line wins.

  13. #43
    Indy is my life Larrymgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevMcNJ View Post
    #48 may be on the back side of his career and having a great day at a plate track definitely does not mean HMS has righted the ship but I stand by my previous statement that Paul Menard is a ride buying s**t head
    Both of them are outright douches.

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by DaveL View Post
    What do you need segments for? Just have a race, first across the line wins.
    Agreed. Although the Clash has had 'segments' going back to 1991. I'm not totally against exhibition races having segments. It's OK to 'stir up' exhibition races. However, they should ditch stages for regular races.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larrymgs View Post
    Both of them are outright douches.

    Tell us what you really think. Don't sugar coat it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorindy View Post
    Agreed. Although the Clash has had 'segments' going back to 1991. I'm not totally against exhibition races having segments. It's OK to 'stir up' exhibition races. However, they should ditch stages for regular races.
    Theres part of the problem. Scheduled cautions are now the normal way of doing things so the Clash and the All star race at Charlotte are both just another race

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveL View Post
    What do you need segments for? Just have a race, first across the line wins.
    That idea is crazy enough that it just might work!

  16. #46
    I love this sport so much dalz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorindy View Post
    Will the day come when Daytona goes back to one weekend? They're going to have to look deep and decide if they really need two weekends anymore. Some "belt-tightening" may be in order.
    Was Daytona ever at one weekend? How long has the approximate schedule been around (ARCA-quals-Clash one week prior)? I know since the live CBS TV deal began in 1979. Were there major differences before that?

  17. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by dalz View Post
    Was Daytona ever at one weekend? How long has the approximate schedule been around (ARCA-quals-Clash one week prior)? I know since the live CBS TV deal began in 1979. Were there major differences before that?
    Speedweeks was always more than one weekend. ARCA was the first weekend along with the first round of 500 qualifying. There used to be more qualifying rounds during the week, as late as the mid 90s.

  18. #48
    Insider BADGER's Avatar
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    Well the NFL superbowl was terrible but I think NACAR had a "if you think that was bad, hold my beer moment".

  19. #49
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    I'm aware this is a Cup forum, but, all this talk about who should take responsibility...I've watched racing for over 70 years and nobody blamed the other guy more that Foyt and Mario...they never made a mistake...things happen in the sport...I'll now defer to the experts on this forum...
    Last edited by hdolan; 02-11-2019 at 03:43 PM.

  20. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by hdolan View Post
    I'm aware this is a Cup forum, but, all this talk about who should take responsibility...I've watched acing for over 70 years and nobody blamed the other guy more that Foyt and Mario...they never made a mistake...things happen in the sport...I'll now defer to the experts on this forum...
    "Drivers are rarely at fault for accidents...it's usually the other guy" I know Sneva said that on a broadcast once.
    "He went into a tire barrier, which is certainly the nicest of all the barriers." -Bobby Unser, Denver '90

  21. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by DaveL View Post
    Speedweeks was always more than one weekend. ARCA was the first weekend along with the first round of 500 qualifying. There used to be more qualifying rounds during the week, as late as the mid 90s.
    Yes, it appears Daytona 500 Pole Qualifying always was the weekend before (either the Saturday or the Sunday) in a twin bill with ARCA. Heck, in 1970, pole qualifying was two weekends before the race. I guess for some reason I had it in my mind that prior to the Busch Clash years that pole quals were Tuesday/Wednesday, but I'm not seeing any year that it was. They did have second round (and maybe even third round) qualifying up through the 90s. Drivers could try to get at least a better time so if they didn't transfer from the 125's, they could fall back on a better lap.

    So in summary...

    From 1971-on (the year the race was first firmly planted on Presidents Day weekend)...

    -First weekend was ARCA and Cup pole qualifying. For a time it was pole quals. on Saturday, and ARCA on Sunday. But some years both were held Sunday. One year they had a Formula Ford race too on the road course.
    -The Busch Clash was added in 1979 (usually Sunday). Starting there, pole quals were usually Saturday, Clash Sunday, ARCA Sunday.
    -Mon/Tues/Wed (varies) was second round Cup qualifying and Sportsman/Busch series qualifying
    -Thursday was the Twin 125s
    -Friday was IROC....(later on the Trucks took Friday)
    -Saturday was the Sportsman/Busch 300 as well as Happy Hour practice
    -Sunday Daytona 500

  22. #52
    CMF rrrr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveL View Post
    Unlike every other professional series, there's nothing in the NASCAR rule book that I know of that addresses avoidable contact. It has been well established that in NASCAR anything goes, if you want to punt someone you can and NASCAR will do nothing (maybe you'll get a fine).

    As for the incident, it's not NASCAR's fault two professionals can't drive in a straight line without crashing into each other. The fact that the rest of the field was wiped out is the product of pack racing, which NASCAR wants.

    Time after time I've seen a trailing car crash the leader to win. It's an accepted strategy. Last year at Daytona, a dipshit whose only qualifications to drive involve nepotism, stood in the winner's circle and compared himself to Dale Earnhardt. He should have been ashamed by the manner with which he won, but all that was quickly swept under the rug.

  23. #53
    I love this sport so much dalz's Avatar
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    Don't forget the Friday race for the compact "Dash" series back in the day.

    I remember the Clash being usually on Saturday, but it was almost random whether it was Sat.-Sun. The ARCA 200 was always Saturday, weather permitting.

  24. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrrr View Post
    Time after time I've seen a trailing car crash the leader to win. It's an accepted strategy. Last year at Daytona, a dipshit whose only qualifications to drive involve nepotism, stood in the winner's circle and compared himself to Dale Earnhardt. He should have been ashamed by the manner with which he won, but all that was quickly swept under the rug.
    Remember that was Dale, Sr’s stock in trade. He didn’t do that all the time, but he did relish it. Remember when he crashed Terry Labonte at Bristol 3 times?

  25. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by dalz View Post
    The ARCA 200 was always Saturday, weather permitting.
    And that's a deal most people overlook...while the Daytona 500 usually didn't have much problem at all with weather, over the years the rest of Speedweeks was often pelted with lousy, inclement weather. Not until 2012 was the 500 ever pushed to Monday (although there had been red flags/shortened races due to rain). That's just plain luck because February is a bit of a crapshoot with weather down here. It can be sunny and 72, or rainy and 50.

  26. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by flatlander_48 View Post
    Remember that was Dale, Sr’s stock in trade. He didn’t do that all the time, but he did relish it. Remember when he crashed Terry Labonte at Bristol 3 times?
    I don't like it either way, but doing it at 200+ on a plate track (and triggering a Big One) is a bit different than Rattling His Cage at Bristol.

  27. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorindy View Post
    That's just plain luck because February is a bit of a crapshoot with weather down here. It can be sunny and 72, or rainy and 50.
    I woke up at Volusia one morning and my pickup truck was covered with frost. I remember being at New Smyrna one night and it was so cold the race fans sitting next to me gave up on the races and went back to their camper. They told me they came down from Canada. When it's too cold for Canadians you know it's cold. Of course I've worn shorts at night races during Speedweek too. You bring shorts and ski gloves when you go to Speedweek

  28. #58
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    Through 1967 the Twin 100-mile races were held on Friday. Lorenzen won one that year without making a pit stop. I think it was for the following year they were going to move the Twins to Thursday and increase the length to 125 miles. In those days that would force a pit stop. But the races got rained out so all the changes didn't get implemented until 1969. That was the first year of the sports car race on Friday and the Twins on Thursday. I'll mention this because this is a mostly Indy car board, but Parnelli Jones and Lloyd Ruby both competed in that first Friday sports car race. Parnelli led 15 of the first 20 laps before the transmission gave up.

  29. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calhoun View Post
    Through 1967 the Twin 100-mile races were held on Friday. Lorenzen won one that year without making a pit stop. I think it was for the following year they were going to move the Twins to Thursday and increase the length to 125 miles. In those days that would force a pit stop.
    Which is why theres no reason to get all twisted up that theyre 150s instead of 125s now.

    I forget who or when it was but drivers started making it all the way without having to pit so they bumped it up so you had to refuel

    No big deal even if "Twin 125s" rolls off the tongue easier.

  30. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by KevMcNJ View Post
    Which is why theres no reason to get all twisted up that theyre 150s instead of 125s now.

    I forget who or when it was but drivers started making it all the way without having to pit so they bumped it up so you had to refuel
    I never minded them being extended to 150 miles. I understood that the cars got better mileage than in the past, and if you played your cards right you could make it all the way without a pit stop. What bothers me is that they are now exercises in trying not to tear up your primary car rather than meaningful races to try to qualify for the 500. Attendance come Thursday will show that I'm not alone in that feeling.

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