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Thread: Pato O┤Ward out of Harding Steinbrenner Racing

  1. #31
    Insider Defender's Avatar
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    Instead of employing all sorts of vice presidents of this or that, why would they not overpay for someone who knows how to wring every last available sponsorship dollar possible from multiple sources? IndyCar is becoming a far easier sell, and their partnership with young George should create some energy. It all seems wasted, and young O'Ward appears to be a future standout star in the sport. Colton Herta may turn out to be another Bryan Herta behind the wheel....not bad but no legend. Harding is one of those teams every IndyCar fan would like to see thrive.
    Supporting Indy Car racing since 1959

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMCguy View Post
    O'Ward is head s and tails above Herta . . . Herta needs another season in Lights IMO and gets a season of IC...unbelievable.
    Never heard of that expression.

    20 podiums in 33 Lights races; has won on street course, road courses, and superspeedways; in his lone Indycar start qualified ahead of Ferrucci, King, Kimball, Chilton, Munoz, and Leist--IMO he has proven himself quick enough

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defender View Post
    Instead of employing all sorts of vice presidents of this or that, why would they not overpay for someone who knows how to wring every last available sponsorship dollar possible from multiple sources? IndyCar is becoming a far easier sell, and their partnership with young George should create some energy. It all seems wasted, and young O'Ward appears to be a future standout star in the sport. Colton Herta may turn out to be another Bryan Herta behind the wheel....not bad but no legend. Harding is one of those teams every IndyCar fan would like to see thrive.
    I agree. Hope things work out for him as I think he's one they shouldn't let get away.
    Real drivers don't need fenders!

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by nospheratez View Post
    He broke his hand as a result of psychological pressure which he was not able to take. I remember that weekend at Toronto very well, Colton's performance was just pitiful.
    Didn't he put it on pole and then crash late in the session? It wasn't like he crashed bc someone was hounding him and he made a mistake. Then in the race he got too much of the curbing and couldn't hold the wheel.

    Herta definitely made some mistakes in Lights (crashed on at least a couple occasions while leading, with no one around him) but he's clearly talented and isn't just getting by because his dad drove. I can't wait to see him in the series. I do hope they can get O'Ward sorted out though because that kid could be a special talent.

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Defender View Post
    Instead of employing all sorts of vice presidents of this or that, why would they not overpay for someone who knows how to wring every last available sponsorship dollar possible from multiple sources? IndyCar is becoming a far easier sell, and their partnership with young George should create some energy. It all seems wasted, and young O'Ward appears to be a future standout star in the sport. Colton Herta may turn out to be another Bryan Herta behind the wheel....not bad but no legend. Harding is one of those teams every IndyCar fan would like to see thrive.
    Agree 100%.

    They hired a bunch of big name management guys but didn't invest in marketing.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTS7 View Post
    Agree 100%.

    They hired a bunch of big name management guys but didn't invest in marketing.
    ...or invest in engineering talent.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defender View Post
    Instead of employing all sorts of vice presidents of this or that, why would they not overpay for someone who knows how to wring every last available sponsorship dollar possible from multiple sources? IndyCar is becoming a far easier sell, and their partnership with young George should create some energy. It all seems wasted, and young O'Ward appears to be a future standout star in the sport. Colton Herta may turn out to be another Bryan Herta behind the wheel....not bad but no legend. Harding is one of those teams every IndyCar fan would like to see thrive.

    I disagree. It's not the series' job or responsibility to find sponsors or money for the teams - that's the team's and driver's jobs.

    People are saying that it's sad tat O'Ward might only do a handful of races but who fault is that? I understanding Harding got a divorce and all that but maybe he shouldn't have over promised a full season especially since it seems it wasn't 100% sure in the first place. I wonder what Colton and Steinbrenner must be thinking on their end on this partnership. I know it sounds mean and even distasteful to do but I wouldn't blame Steinbrenner and Colton for letting Harding go since Harding probably promised something that never materialized.

    What is sad is that O'Ward is the innocent person out of this bunch. I have been saying this for years - Indycar shouldn't be responsible for finding sponsors for teams but they should have a class for young drivers to learn how to find them.
    "The only good horsepower is usable horsepower.."

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by FourCamFord View Post
    ...or invest in engineering talent.
    I'd have started with the shocks that were 5 years old!
    "If your car was a dog, then you had to figure it out and test your own limits. And we didn't go to a wind tunnel ľ we did it in the first turn at Indianapolis."

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitokiri View Post
    I disagree. It's not the series' job or responsibility to find sponsors or money for the teams - that's the team's and driver's jobs.
    Correct. I was talking about Harding.

  10. #40
    O'Ward's good, but frankly I don't see much "star power" there to justify all the hand wringing about his ride. Steinbrenner and Herta are a package deal and the only names in this equation most fans will be invested in. The focus is rightfully on building Colton's career in IC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joeremi View Post
    O'Ward's good, but frankly I don't see much "star power" there to justify all the hand wringing about his ride. Steinbrenner and Herta are a package deal and the only names in this equation most fans will be invested in. The focus is rightfully on building Colton's career in IC.


    O'Ward's impressively fast and has charisma. Plus having a Mexican star in the series is good for business and he can promote the series in outlets that other drivers (who aren't fluent in Spanish) can't.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defender View Post
    Correct. I was talking about Harding.
    Sorry I re-read what you said earlier and I misread it. My mistake.

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Joeremi View Post
    O'Ward's good, but frankly I don't see much "star power" there to justify all the hand wringing about his ride.
    You didn’t hear the crowd roar when he beat Mick Schumacher at Race of Champions? If IndyCar loses him, its F1’s gain again.

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Joeremi View Post
    O'Ward's good, but frankly I don't see much "star power" there to justify all the hand wringing about his ride. Steinbrenner and Herta are a package deal and the only names in this equation most fans will be invested in. The focus is rightfully on building Colton's career in IC.
    Excellent! This is the package that most fans will invest in - ultra-rich son of ultra rich-daddy who is forcing career of his buddy which is also the son of a famous dad... No, fans will not invest in the story of a super talented simple guy without money who, actually beat rich kids and carved his way to the top with wins.
    Nastalgia & headache.

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by nospheratez View Post
    Excellent! This is the package that most fans will invest in - ultra-rich son of ultra rich-daddy who is forcing career of his buddy which is also the son of a famous dad... No, fans will not invest in the story of a super talented simple guy without money who, actually beat rich kids and carved his way to the top with wins.
    I am quite invested in Herta’s story and his career. I don’t doubt that Pato is fast, but I’ve been waiting to see Colton in IndyCar since his first Lights season. Very excited about him. Frankly, I can see the positives Pato brings to the series, but if you made me pick one or the other, this fan would pick Colton.

  16. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitokiri View Post
    What is sad is that O'Ward is the innocent person out of this bunch. I have been saying this for years - Indycar shouldn't be responsible for finding sponsors for teams but they should have a class for young drivers to learn how to find them.
    Are you serious? A class for IndyLights champions "How to find sponsors?". Well, if earning multiple wins and championships is not enough to attract sponsors, then I can't even imagine what are these guys must do to claim their attention - to beg and to plea?

    If IndyLights championship means nothing to sponsors, then it's series fault and it would be fair if the series will give some help to make useful connections for it's young stars.

  17. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by nospheratez View Post
    If IndyLights championship means nothing to sponsors, then it's series fault and it would be fair if the series will give some help to make useful connections for it's young stars.
    It is series fault we don’t race in Mexico anymore. Back in Champ Car days Rodolfo Lavin, Roberto Gonzalez, David Martinez, Luis Diaz etc were able to attract Mexican sponsors to fund their rides. If there was a Mexican event we could see Tecate or Telmex give him something but US-based series is just not attractive for many sponsors.

  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by nospheratez View Post
    Are you serious? A class for IndyLights champions "How to find sponsors?". Well, if earning multiple wins and championships is not enough to attract sponsors, then I can't even imagine what are these guys must do to claim their attention - to beg and to plea?

    If IndyLights championship means nothing to sponsors, then it's series fault and it would be fair if the series will give some help to make useful connections for it's young stars.
    To be a successful driver these days (especially in a series that is not yet a significant part of the culture) seems to require being equal parts athlete and salesman. Something to bolster that second part would be a good help.
    Sitting president of the "Sato Forever Faithful Fanclub"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Muffins View Post
    To be a successful driver these days (especially in a series that is not yet a significant part of the culture) seems to require being equal parts athlete and salesman. Something to bolster that second part would be a good help.
    I may be wrong, but the RTI does have these sorts of events. At the end of the day, experience is something that can't be taught. Listening to Pato's latest MPP episode, he is out there making presentations and trying to land something. Rahal ran into a similar issue of sponsorship and now he is likely one of the best in the business at it.

  20. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikemat5150 View Post
    I may be wrong, but the RTI does have these sorts of events. At the end of the day, experience is something that can't be taught. Listening to Pato's latest MPP episode, he is out there making presentations and trying to land something. Rahal ran into a similar issue of sponsorship and now he is likely one of the best in the business at it.
    I agree that experience is key but I am curious if there could be any valuable analysis of how the the most marketable drivers (Hinch, Rahal, RHR, Newgarden, TK, Sato (with the Japanese at least)) do their work.

  21. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    You didn’t hear the crowd roar when he beat Mick Schumacher at Race of Champions? If IndyCar loses him, its F1’s gain again.
    If he was good enough for F1 and or really had the backing of Carlos Slim he would be already there and this discussion would not be happening. I get the kid has some talent but to claim the RoC as some kind of gauge is silly.
    RIP Justin! WWJCD

  22. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    It is series fault we don’t race in Mexico anymore. Back in Champ Car days Rodolfo Lavin, Roberto Gonzalez, David Martinez, Luis Diaz etc were able to attract Mexican sponsors to fund their rides. If there was a Mexican event we could see Tecate or Telmex give him something but US-based series is just not attractive for many sponsors.
    Chicken or the egg... driver or the race... what comes first?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Grigson View Post
    If he was good enough for F1 and or really had the backing of Carlos Slim he would be already there and this discussion would not be happening. I get the kid has some talent but to claim the RoC as some kind of gauge is silly.
    I don't think O'Ward ever had the backing/funding to compete full-time in Europe. He did French Formula 4 and won races/poles there, but didn't compete in the full season. He was 9th in his first IndyCar race on a team that wasn't good.

    He's 19 years old so it's hard to say he isn't "good enough for F1".

  24. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    I don't think O'Ward ever had the backing/funding to compete full-time in Europe. He did French Formula 4 and won races/poles there, but didn't compete in the full season. He was 9th in his first IndyCar race on a team that wasn't good.

    He's 19 years old so it's hard to say he isn't "good enough for F1".
    I'm not saying he's not good enough for F1. I am just questioning the claim that he could be lost to it because of a limited racing schedule over here. If he was the next thing he would have gone F3, F2 etc.. I wish him well but as you said he is only 19.

  25. #55
    I'm not sure a Mexican driver being popular at the RoC in Mexico is a quage of anything having to do with IC. To reiterate, he's good and more power to him for securing a full-time ride, it's just not a priority in my mind.

  26. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by nospheratez View Post
    Are you serious? A class for IndyLights champions "How to find sponsors?". Well, if earning multiple wins and championships is not enough to attract sponsors, then I can't even imagine what are these guys must do to claim their attention - to beg and to plea?
    If that's what you have to do then that's what you have to do. I bet you some drivers have the same attitude as you - "I'm a champ! I'm too big to beg and plea!" - those are the ones that are riderless despite their success.

    Talk to Graham Rahal or Matthew Brabham - it's obvious to me how little the knew about sponsors until they finally was face with the fact that they had none. Some may say Graham is full of himself when he talks about how much time he spends on sponsors but he knows what he has to do and does it.

    If IndyLights championship means nothing to sponsors, then it's series fault and it would be fair if the series will give some help to make useful connections for it's young stars.
    Again, why don't you ask Charlie Kimball or Zach Veach about this. The worked their butts off to get their sponsors and to keep them loyal. Yes, not all drivers are as lucky or as successful but I do believe finding sponsors is a never ending job.

    Even on a grassroots level it's up the driver and/or his team to keep up with sponsors. My friend run autocross and even with the very few small sponsors he has he spends much of his time updating them on how he does even if he had a terrible weekend. It's not really about how successful you are at time - it's more about making relationships and showing just how serious you are.

  27. #57
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    The ONLY reason Pato has progressed to this point has been his skill. He has not had very much in the way of funding. He's a great asset for the sport, and obviously I don't want to lose him. IMO he's right at the top of this rookie class, that features several drivers with Formula 1 or 2 experience, and he may well be better than them. The difference is they have big money connections.

  28. #58
    Then he needs to get busy making his own big money connections. This is 2019 and the era of "I duz mah talkin' with my right foot" is long over. The European kids have always had to do it.

    Fortunately most young drivers realize that-it's time the fans wake up to it, too. Talent and personal sponsorship packages to bring to a ride are not mutually exclusive.
    "Only a fool fights in a burning house."-Kang

    "If you listen to fools....The Maaahhhhb Ruuuules....."-Ronnie James Dio

  29. #59
    Maybe Pato can get Harding's ex to sponsor him

  30. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Fury View Post
    Then he needs to get busy making his own big money connections. This is 2019 and the era of "I duz mah talkin' with my right foot" is long over. The European kids have always had to do it.

    Fortunately most young drivers realize that-it's time the fans wake up to it, too. Talent and personal sponsorship packages to bring to a ride are not mutually exclusive.
    The idea that these “kids” are hunting down sponsorship is bs. Most of them are either somehow related to, or connected to support through their parents.. Yes, they all work on their public speaking and glad handing, but I don’t think Colton Herta has been successful finding support due to his super efforts, but more likely due to his access to benefactors through his father and his father’s connections. Nothing against that, but that’s how it works. This is the same way the “European” kids have been doing it - on family connections and wealth.

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