Winston Salem Journal: Toyota Advantage

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NASCAR Notebook


COMPILED BY MIKE MULHERN

Published: July 6, 2008


Toyota's horsepower edge may lead to a penalty

■ NASCAR may be ready to slap Toyota with an engine-horsepower penalty on the Nationwide tour after yet another win by the Joe Gibbs team Friday night.

It was Dave Rogers' ninth tour win as crew chief, this time for Denny Hamlin, in a one-two finish with teammate Kyle Busch. It was Gibbs' 12th Nationwide win in the 18 races so far.

Ford's Jack Roush said the Toyotas have so much more horsepower than Ford and Chevy that Toyota crews can put more downforce in their cars -- with a wider front end -- for better handling in the corners because the Toyotas have the horsepower to push that extra drag. "A monkey could drive that car," Roush said, referring to the Toyota edge.

■ Chevrolet has been pushing for NASCAR to OK its Cup-side R07 engine for Nationwide competition; NASCAR has been pushing Ford to design a new Nationwide engine, but Ford men say they can't afford to make obsolete what engine parts they're currently using.

"If they want to kill that series, go right ahead," Roush said.

In NASCAR's three national touring series this season, Toyota teams have won 24 of the 48 races, including Friday night's victory. The majority of those wins have been by Gibbs' teams, which have won six Cup races going into last night's race.

■ NASCAR's handling of the Nationwide race here has raised some eyebrows -- the sanctioning body declining to OK Joey Logano for the Friday night race.

■ Doug Yates, who has been worried that he might not make it to year two as a NASCAR team owner, is doing better now, according to Roush, a fellow Ford team owner, who said sponsorship is coming through for Yates -- not only enough sponsorship to keep Yates' two teams going but to allow Yates to expand to a three-car operation.

No word on who the third driver might be.

■ The U.S. Army sponsorship, that Mark Martin has carried the past two years, may be moving to Team Red Bull in 2009, and it could provide the backing for that operation to expand to three teams, with Scott Speed, the ex-Formula One driver, getting the nod for the third Cup ride.

■ NASCAR's Nationwide tour may be facing a shortage of top-quality teams because of rising costs, and the sanctioning body may now be ready to delay introduction of the winged car on that tour next season, because of cost issues. NASCAR had planned to debut the new Nationwide car next June at Michigan.

■ The impact of the sluggish U.S. economy appears to be hitting NASCAR directly. Only 45 teams attempted to qualify for last night's Coke Zero 400, and that has some here worried about how many teams might be lining up to run for next February's Daytona 500.

Robby Gordon has been struggling with sponsorship issues, and things may not be getting any better. Gordon's business relationship with George Gillett and Ray Evernham may not be going all that smoothly at the moment, and it's unclear if Gordon will be with Dodge again next season.

Chip Ganassi's decision to shut down one of his Cup teams so abruptly, in mid-season, releasing 70 crew men, has raised speculation that more cuts may be looming for that Dodge operation. Gillett, who has been trying to expand his own Dodge operation, could be bidding to purchase one of Ganassi's teams.

■ Crew chief Frank Stoddard said NASCAR, now that it has the "lucky dog" rule -- allowing the driver a lap down behind the leader the opportunity to get back on the lead lap without having to race back to the flag -- the sanctioning body could opt for double-file restarts, rather than the long-standing single-file restarts.

And such double-file restarts could provide a lot more excitement.

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[StatMan]

I could have sworn NASCAR already did double-file restarts, but the existence of the lucky-dog rule should be a reason to do single-file over double-file, not vise-versa.

[jandj]

As for Toyota being penalized for being sucessful -

[VtOpenWheel]

I could have sworn NASCAR already did double-file restarts, but the existence of the lucky-dog rule should be a reason to do single-file over double-file, not vise-versa.

I think they are saying double file w/ leaders up front (so P1 on the inside, P2 on the outside, P3 behind P1, etc.). Current double file has lapped cars on inside, which before the free pass gave them a chance to get around the leader to gain a lap back. Actually not a bad idea to make re-starts more interesting and increase passing.

What's the scoop w/ Logano not being allowed to race? I know he wasn't schedule to run for Gibbs. But with Tony's situation for next year seemingly up in the air, and Joey as the heir apparent to the 20, getting him onto a plate track this year would help if he does step up to cup next year. Looks like Gibbs was thinking along those lines but Nascar said no. The kid has been good in anything he's driven, so despite lack of plate experience I'm surprised that Nascar flinched (if that is what happened).

[Doctorindy]

I think they are saying double file w/ leaders up front (so P1 on the inside, P2 on the outside, P3 behind P1, etc.). Current double file has lapped cars on inside, which before the free pass gave them a chance to get around the leader to gain a lap back. Actually not a bad idea to make re-starts more interesting and increase passing.

The stupid thing that ruins everything though is the insistance that cars can't pass before the line. They make a big deal about the "Restart Line" but it's worthless if the leader decides to brake-check the field.

We wouldn't have as many accordian-style crashes on restarts and GWC if they would just allow cars to pass and fan out as soon as they start accellerating. Exact location of the S/F line be damned.

[MoparsRule]

■ Chevrolet has been pushing for NASCAR to OK its Cup-side R07 engine for Nationwide competition; NASCAR has been pushing Ford to design a new Nationwide engine, but Ford men say they can't afford to make obsolete what engine parts they're currently using.

"If they want to kill that series, go right ahead," Roush said.

Typical Jack.... he can't afford a rule change, so he prefers nascar costs someone else money on a rule change.

[MoparsRule]

We wouldn't have as many accordian-style crashes on restarts and GWC if they would just allow cars to pass and fan out as soon as they start accellerating. Exact location of the S/F line be damned.

Agreed. Either start the race at the S/F line or don't - but they can't have it both ways - it leads to what we saw Sat. night.

[nm]

Typical Jack.... he can't afford a rule change, so he prefers nascar costs someone else money on a rule change.

Anyone who reads this forum knows I am not a Roush fan, but Roush is right about the engine rule. Toyota is the only that does not have extra costs. All the other manufacturers are paying the price of their Cup engine not being allowed to run in Nationwide.

Thing is, only Toyota could afford to have different engines.

Again I ask, just how much did Toyota pay Nascar as an entrance fee?

[9rows]

penalizing someone for being successful....that's the american way ain't it?

if you can't beat 'em, tax 'em.

[Wheel-Nut]

Anyone who reads this forum knows I am not a Roush fan, but Roush is right about the engine rule. Toyota is the only that does not have extra costs. All the other manufacturers are paying the price of their Cup engine not being allowed to run in Nationwide.

Thing is, only Toyota could afford to have different engines.

Again I ask, just how much did Toyota pay Nascar as an entrance fee?

What are the differences between engines for the two series?

[nm]

The other manufacturers are being required to use engines that is a generation older than the Toyota. Chevy is required to use the SB2. I don't know what engines Ford and Dodge are being required to use.

Nascar is about to price the Nationwide Series out of existence, unless they want only Toyotas running.

Remember what I said about the COT chassis and Nationwide? Nascar got the message from the other teams.

Nascar better listen about engine costs, or some of these teams will leave the Nationwide Series. Chevy, Ford, and Dodge do not have the money for R & D for 2 different engines.

[Wheel-Nut]

So the only differences is the age?

[nm]

So the only differences is the age?

....and hp. The other manufacturers have about maxed out the hp in that generation. Any more hp they find in that generation costs money.

[Gateway Fan]

Why not let all 3 series run the same engine. Control horsepower with the carb. Developing one engine would seem cheaper than trying to develop three.

[midtown]

I think you can pass before the S/F line, but only on the inside.

[StatMan]

penalizing someone for being successful....that's the american way ain't it?

if you can't beat 'em, tax 'em.

That's different than trying to even the playing field in sports. Nobody wants to see their favorite team/driver lose because they happened to be affiliated with the engine developer that turned out to be the weakest for that particular year.

[jandj]

I don't recall a lot of people feeling sorry for Toyota when they first came in and were taking their lumps.
Now that they've gotten it figured out suddenly they're the bad guys.
It's not their fault their engine is a newer design.
Let NASCAR approve the Chevy engine so they'll stop crying, if
Ford wants to keep what they have it's their decision and Jack will just have to live with it.
What happens if NASCAR applies a "horsepower penalty" and Toyota keeps on winning?

[Jim Wilke]

Wow, Toyota came in, stole away some top teams and drivers, spent millions and now has a huge advantage? Boy, who saw that coming?

[nm]

How many of those millions went to Nascar? And if you want to know how much Toyota has to throw around, remember last year they offered Dale Jr. a $20M signing bonus if he switched to them.

Chevy is dropping sponsorships at many tracks. Guess who wanted to take over those sponsorships.

[hoosiersergeant]

First Jack called Toyota a bunch of ankle biters because they stole "special parts", now he's calling them monkeys. Sounds like Jack's a bigger whiner than anyone. Before all that, it was how Jeff Gordon was a big cheater, in '98 right? And yet, Jack won 2 cup titles back to back not too long after that. One the old way, and one the new way. Next he'll complain how unfair it is that he has to go to 4 teams next year. Jack needs to have his folks figure it out and just beat Toyota if it's so unfair. Edwards and Kenseth look strong every race, luck has been the bigger deal this season. I'm sure if Edwards was winning every week someone from Dodge or Chevy would be crying foul. It's just the way it goes sometimes.

Ok, I'll shut up now.

[MoparsRule]

Ok, I'll shut up now.

By all means, please keep going because you are spot-on.

[cbreez99]

Someone should be telling Mike Waltrip where all that horsepower advantage has been hiding....he doesn't seem to have it. He's still looking in the sway-bar bin...

Agreed... Rousch=whiner!

[Doctorindy]

I think you can pass before the S/F line, but only on the inside.

It used to be that cars could pass on a restart before the S/F line, as long as it was on the outside. Then the drivers smartly curtailed that by bringing the field down to the S/F about 3 inches away from the wall. Therefore, it made all passing before the line effectively impossible. At some point after '02? or '03? they changed it so that there was no passing at all until the S/F line. And they introduced a "restart line" which is useless if not observed by the leader. In addition, on the first lap, the leader 'has' to be the first car to cross the line.

All those rules do is give the leader incentive to bring the field down real slow, stuff the cars together bumper-to-bumper, and greatly raise the chances of rear-ending and crashing cars on restarts. The old adage "cautions breed cautions" is magnified by this practice.