I have no idea how good he is...my perspective is strictly one of money...we see movement from open wheel to Cup...why, cash...we do not see movement the other way...I suspect it is for the same reason, money...would a top ride in F1 going to be offered...probably not...again, money...Originally Posted by badart
I guess you can't refute the facts, huh? That's OK.
Talent and Versatility.Gotta have em' both, if you aren't from a stock car background, to make it down south.
Hardly.
I'll refute facts if you actually present them. As usual all you have are your blowhard opinions that you present as facts. You probably have 2-3 people who think you know what you're talking about so keep preaching to them.
Center Grove Trojans
2008 5A Football State Champs
2011 Track State Champs
Or maybe they see it as a place to keep getting paid.
Do you really think that the lack of Nascar drivers going to F1 is a sign that money is better in Nascar?
Hey Jimmy, how many TF fora are you allowed to post in?
Why is that?
Nice "blowhard" remark, Truthy.When you can't refute something, go to namecalling. I am sure, that is kosher here at TF.
Obama's approval ratings got you in the dumper?
And, I appreciate your "genuine" concern about which forums I can post in here. Thanks for the inquiry. Its kind of a deflection and has zero to do with the subject matter being discussed here, but I do appreciate the thought-provoking query. Have a great day!!! Its almost May! Trojan Pride!!!
Last edited by Jimmy Hendricks; 04-30-2009 at 01:49 AM.
IRL 2009: "Cars you can't see, driven by drivers you have never heard of, on a network you don't get"
"I'd hire your grandmother, if she brought a budget"- Bankrupt Indy Car team owner Tyler Tadevic, to Curt Cavin in December, on the tough standards he looks for when "hiring" driver talent.
Sounds like the Current Events Forum.
Here is one you might be able to answer...
How many American drivers, from ANY discipline, have raced in F1 in the past 30 years? (And since 98% of NASCAR drivers are American-born, the chances are, that Ferrari and Williams aren't going to be at Rockingham looking at the young stars of ARCA; when the few American road racers that actually raced in F1, have been failures). American race drivers, are kind of a dirty word, in F1 circles. American racing, is also not "sophisticated" enough, for that group.
Plus, who in their right mind, from this country, if they could have a 20+ year career in NASCAR, making huge money, living on the Lake In Charlotte, flying to races on their own private jet, running in very safe race cars, in front of millions of people every week, against the best American racing talent, at the biggest racing facilities in this country, would want to give that up for any reason or any series? Talk about a dream life, for an American racer.
That might help with your question.
Last edited by Jimmy Hendricks; 04-30-2009 at 01:57 AM.
To a degree yes...one has to consider the stages of a Cup driver's career first...the equipment used v the equipment used in the early career of an F1 driver...the money lowers pretty quick as you get to the mid to lower echelon in F1...mid packers in Cup do pretty well...
The talk of F1 having the 'best' drivers in the world is as much hype as the IRL or Cup uses...the fact remains, if you don't drive for a top one or two team in F1, you go nowhere...the competition level in Cup is much more even than found in F1 or the IRL...granted, there are dogs...but, in general the depth in Cup overshadows that in F1 or the IRL...
So far formula drivers, with the exceptions of Montoya and Stewart, have not done well in Cup...that much we know for sure...bottom line, this post is not gonna change your mind...technology is impressive in F1 and they go to exotic places...but, it seems to me that a top Cup driver, if started early could succeed in F1...
Last edited by hdolan; 04-30-2009 at 01:59 PM.
Still waiting for that one stock car trained driver that won in a formula car.
All I hear are lame excuses why they won't try.
Once again, if they race for "free" at Tulsa Fairgrounds and the Daytona 24 - why not in a one-off formula race?
Simple. Because they know they'd suck. It's out of their "comfort zone".
Versatility? I see NASCAR guys racing FE, mech grip cars - nothing else.
Montoya, R Gordon, and Stewart are the only ones worthy of your lofty praises. And although I admit Tony would be competitive against this current crew in IndyCar - it's not the same series he won in before. Much tougher now.
Get back to me when one of those guys plays a true "road game", and races a RE formula car in F1, the IRL, or even IPS.
And finally, in the closest thing we have to a "neutral field" race (the Daytona 24), where the cars and track are foreign to most - why do the IndyCar/Formula guys routinely wipe the floor with the NASCAR guys? According to Jimmy, there should be easy domination by the "world's greatest drivers" from NASCAR. Why don't we see it?
"Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and your going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down." -- Edward Blume
Wow... a 1991 article. You never fail to make me laugh...
One more time... and I'll try and be as clear as possible. I posted the following comment...:
"I see more humor in trying to compare an F-1 ride to a spec Indycar... now that is funny."
And I still stand by that... my point has absolutely NOTHING to do with this whole Formula Car v. COT thing that is being tossed around... Now you dig up a comparative quote from 18 years ago and expect that to be relevent...?
Now if my memory is correct, that would mean that you are loosely trying to compare a 1991 McLaren and /or 1991 Lola T9100 to the modern day "spec" Dallara and/or F1 platform... Personally, I still don't see it, but that's my un-educated internet typer opinion, so take it for what you want.
(Caution - side tracked and off-topic comentary to follow)
Personally, I thought the PM4/6 w/RA121E V12 combo was inferior to the Williams at the time, but Senna was just head and shoulders above the field... And the FW14 did have early development issues (reliability). Now the Lola T9100 was a work of art in my eyes... and the Chevy A lump was more than capable... Just ask Michael how well that combo worked for him in 1991. I'm sure he has fond memories...
Now if you can find a soundbite/quote of him comparing those 1991 rides to the modern "spec" Dallara/Honda combo, then I will listen... But for now, I still stand behind my beliefs on this subject. (and if you want to read even more between the lines, it should be fairly apparent that I have no love for the current IRL platform... When I want to see "spec" done right, I attend the run-offs...)
Erm..Donnie Allison was pretty good in an Indy car.So much so that there was a rumour going around the Foyt would run a 2nd car for him after the '72 500.He did'nt just race Indy cars at Indy,either.He may not have won,but as I recall,he was almost always compeatative.This is a guy who came up from Florida and Alabama driving stock cars.He also drove SuperModifieds,so it probably helped him,as well...
LeeRoy Yarbrough is another that may not have won,but was always competative...
And Bobby Alllison and Cale.
Supermodifieds probably helped, but the supers of that era were a far cry from today's supers.
Some people will do nearly anything in order to be able to not do anything.
Both Bobby and Cale raced only at Indy,I believe.And,unfortunately for both,were'nt all that successful.Donnie was a different kettle of fish all together.I believe until Nigel Mansell came along,Allison was the highest placing rookie ever at Indy.He also drove Indy cars at Phoenix,Milwaukee,Pocono,and I think..Trenton?He and Yarbrough also did alot of tire testing in Indy cars.As the rumour has it,Foyt quashed the 2nd car idea because he felt Donnie might be able to show up the boss!
As for the Supers of that time,I agree..They were still probably using stock car frames...Supers are definately NOT stock cars now!
"Montoya, R Gordon, and Stewart are the only ones worthy of your lofty praises. And although I admit Tony would be competitive against this current crew in IndyCar - it's not the same series he won in before. Much tougher now."
Yeah, you're right...all those formula types who have recently participated in NASCAR have certainly impressed me...
Pretty good, yes, but zero wins.
Yeah, you're right...all those stocker types who have (not) recently participated (won't, can't, couldn't"Montoya, R Gordon, and Stewart are the only ones worthy of your lofty praises. And although I admit Tony would be competitive against this current crew in IndyCar - it's not the same series he won in before. Much tougher now."
Yeah, you're right...all those formula types who have recently participated in NASCAR have certainly impressed me...) in Indy cars have certainly impressed me...
Zero wins.
We don't know how the likes of a Kyle Busch might do do we...we do know how many former formula champions have done in Cup though...
I'd kill to see Kyle Busch in a spridget @ Winchester.
If he drives the spidget like he drives his Cup car, he might be the one killed. These things have no fenders to lean on.
At least a few have wins (Montoya, Stewart, Foyt, Gurney,).
[clearing throat] Mario...and his nephewAt least a few have wins (Montoya, Stewart, Foyt, Gurney,).
Mears as well.
Lazier, Cheever, and Bourdais in IROC (stock).
I'm not looking for any huge wins - just one....anywhere....in a formula car.
That's right, we don't.
So the assumption that Kyle Busch would just magially win in a car he has never driven, nor been trained in, is pure conjecture based on his payday in a series that is deemed "more entertaining" by the American masses...the same masses that have deemed Britney Spears and the Jonas Brothers our most talented musicians, because, you know, they make the most money and all.
Or you could see it as people getting major league pay for taking on a minor league challenge...or people getting minor league pay for taking on a major league challenge.
I am a Cup fan who has been wavering lately. But even at my peak of Cup fandom, I would NEVER have made the statement that driving a Cup car at 180 and closed wheels was tougher than driving an Indy Car at 230 with open wheels.
You'd have to be crazy to equate popularity with the quality of the challenge...in anything. Just providing an unbiased and real assessment, fair and balenced. Like Rusty said, he wouldn't have jumped out of the electric chair to drive an Indy Car. The King said the same.
You have to give credit where credit is due and quit thinking money equates to the level of the challenge. Otherwise, we would pay astronauts $25 million a year and gangster rappers 10K a year.
It'd be well worth the price of admission...
to see him killed? jkIt'd be well worth the price of admission...
I suspect he'd drive the wheels off of anything he got in.
He can, he's still a little reckless at times, and if he drove a sprinter like he drives a Cup car (remember, open wheels), I have a feeling he'd find himself upside down a time or two as well.
Which would not be all that unusual for a sprnt car driver. I got my Dad's last issue of the NSSN at my mom's today. It's a little old as it has St. Pete and Texas, but one picture they had was 5 sprint cars "posed" in a pyramid.
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