LEN SUTTONS 1964 INDY RIDE
LEN SUTTONS 1964 INDY RIDE
SMOKEY YUNICK/CURTIS TURNER IN 1963 INDY 500
A turbo charged offy roadster made the field in 1966 (the driver escapes me at the moment) and it was swept away in the crash at the start.Originally Posted by addicted2INDY
I was watching an interview on CNN/SI with Helio Castroneves, behind him you can see a large framed photo of this car & driver right here from 1965. Can someone tell me the significance (if any) for this car/driver. Of all the pictures to have propped behind helio for an interview from Indy, I personally find this one a bit obscure....driver Jim Hurtubise, #59, finished last in the '65 "500"
My knowledge of Indy in the 60s is not up to par with 80s or 90s lol, is this the last 'roadster' car to make the "500" field?
any input would be interesting, cheers
Gav
That would be Bobby Grim in the Racing Associates Special #39. It was a Watson and driven by Johnny Rutherford in the 1964 500. Herb Porter was the chief mechanic. The last year that a roadster started the race was in 1968 - Jim Hurtubise in one of his Mallards.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/impact
Hey how do I post some pics here I have some from the 30's and 40's of Miller Fords. Thanks Mike
My baby Eagle today at the "Friends of Steve MacQueen" Concours d'Elegance in Chino Hills, California:
I am looking forward to driving her at California Speedway soon...
Just for you, T...
ZOOOM
"Doc, just set them fingers sose I can hold the wheel"
James Hurtubise, June, 1964
this is a fantastic thread...you guys have some great pictures! i have a request--does anyone have any photos of the viper pace cars from the 1991 or 1996 500s? Thanks a lot!
I stumbled across this picture I took of Mario's 71 McNamara as it now rests in "Big Daddy" Don Garlits Museum in Ocala, FL
Keith Koether http://www.kkraceshots.com
Ex ARCA, ASA and local bullring crewdog. I remember when racing was really racing and the Talladega Express!!!
The McNamara set in quite a different configuration than when run at Indy in 1971 where it had no wings at all, and the body top cowling had a large air intake for whatever cooling system. Mario started in 8th and DNF in 30th spot.
1971 was the year of the rather ungainly "square wedges" at Indy...
check your PM
http://www.flickr.com/photos/34475442@N06/
Some Indycars I've painted for rfactor, rendered in 3DSmax
If this is the MaNamara it is totally different than when it ran at Indianapolis in 1970-71. It is so different in fact it shouldn't be called a McNamara.I stumbled across this picture I took of Mario's 71 McNamara as it now rests in "Big Daddy" Don Garlits Museum in Ocala, FL
Indycars in 1971 and before didn't have bolt on wings, thank God.
"You just don't know what Indy Means" Al Unser Jr.
Look at the size of that rear wing!
Just for you, T...
ZOOOM
Faster than a bullet from a gun
He is faster than everyone
Quicker than the blinking of an eye
Like a flash you could miss him going by
No one knows quite how he does it but it's true they say
He's the master of going faster. -George Harrison
Bring em back! They had to take 50 hp to push through the air.
They were reduced from that awful size the next year, after 4 deaths USAC finally reduced the size and the racing and safety was better for it.
Last edited by kevin99; 06-10-2011 at 05:15 AM.
Kevin,
With all due respect I do not believe that either the deaths of Jim Malloy, Art Pollard or Swede Savage could be blamed on the size of the wings or excessive freedom in turbo boost that would have resulted in out of control situations. Malloy died of basal fracture, a relatively common way of dying in a racing car then regardless of speed. Swede was very unlucky to hit the pit wall in the worst possible way, that would have happened at any speed. Pollard died of flame inhalation. Both Pollard and Malloy would have survived with modern equipment (FIA-spec helmets and racing suits, HANS...) while nothing, nothing could have saved Savage.
Who was the 4th driver who died in either 1972 or 1973?
The larger wings (width up to the center of the front and rear tires) were kept for two seasons, not one.
In 1974, when the wings were reduced to the inner thread of the tires and turbo boost was reduced, the speeds were only an average of 5-6 MPH slower, absolutely negligible in terms of impact effects, and with less down force, making the cars a bit more twitchy to drive. Did it make the cars safer? I am not so sure.
The cars with the larger wings and unlimited boost provided some of the greatest races the Speedway has ever seen in my opinion. it was simply awesome to watch those cars.
Also please note that my own 1972 Eagle is fitted with 1974 wings, because that's all I had. I am still hoping to find a set of genuine 1972-1973 Eagle wings to replace them some day...
Actually, Swede was on his way to recovery during his hospital stay and was even playing jokes on the nurses when a medical mistake was made. Swede and several other patients received some contaminated plasma that killed him and the others. There was a behind the scenes settlement that went on; details of which took over thirty years to leak out. Dr. Steve Olvey wrote about some of this in his book "Rapid Response" several years ago.
I think the average speed reduction from 1974 to 1973 was almost 10 MPH which I would say is statistically significant and most definitetly had to have had an impact in terms of the reduction in the severity of injury accidents. In 1972 and 1973 these cars were in uncharted territory.
Last edited by straightup; 06-12-2011 at 11:07 AM.
Straightup
The pole speed in 1971 was in the 178 mph range, in 1972 it went to 196, the pole speed before wings of the year before would not have even made the race the very next year. With that tremendous increase in speeds, the driving style had to drastically change. Some drivers were not up to it.
A lot of drivers that were killed over the years would have survived their crashes in modern equipment, that is not an arguement.
The wing reduction was made in 1974 to increase safety and slow the cars down. It made for much better racing.
To say 1972 and especially 1973 were the "greatest racing at the Speedway" is kind of a stretch.
The fourth death was not a driver, a crewman was killed in the pits, attributed to a crash on the track.
http://www.trackforum.com/forums/sho...-Sticky-Please
"The series may be hesitant to say it, but the day is here for everybody that loves IndyCar racing to link arms and help each other out. Anybody who doesn’t want to do that needs to find something else to do with their time.”
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Ludwig Sr. or Ludwig Sr.?
Jeff Downer
Indianapolis, Indiana
.....'Either way, it seems that it would have been awfully tough for Swede to survive that accident. When the news announced his death, it was reported that he died of pneumonia. And if you've ever seen the extended video, Swede sat in a burning inferno. His lungs were seared, besides all of the other injuries (numerous broken bones). So it made total sense of the original cause of death. But, you can't argue with Dr. Steve.
.....'What never gets' mentioned is, the similarity of the wrecks of Swede Savage and Dave MacDonald. They both came off 4 and lost it and seemed to hit the inside retaining wall at almost the same pitch and angle. Both Swede and MacDonald were on full loads of fuel. Swede had just made a pit stop, taken on 75 gals. of fuel and had been leading the race. So he was obviously over-anxious to make up for lost time in the pits. And MacDonald's 'roller skate' was on the second lap of the race full of gasoline. And they say Dave was driving like a bat-out-of-hell!
.....'To blame Armando Tehran's death on Swede's wreck kind of seems like a mute point?
Indeed...
A matter of opinion I am sure, and I wrote "some of the...", not "the greatest".The wing reduction was made in 1974 to increase safety and slow the cars down. It made for much better racing.
To say 1972 and especially 1973 were the "greatest racing at the Speedway" is kind of a stretch.
I was there and attended all three "500" (1972, 73, 74) and I know which for me, were the most interesting.
I also know that the reduction in wing size and boost as well as the small reduction in speed, did not do a damned thing as far as "increasing safety". The 3 accidental deaths in 1972 and 1973 were a matter of bad luck, not of an extra 10 MPH in speed. In 1974, the ones who kissed the wall were luckier.
I guess everyone has his own opinion... let me prefer the cars with the huge wings and unlimited boost.
My take on the '72-'73 Pollard and Malloy accidents; it doesn't matter what injuries they had, or whether any modern safety devices would have saved them, but the real question is why did they both inexplicably turn right, right into the wall?
Of course it's only speculation, but the especially brutal nature of both those wrecks could very well have had something to do the new driving style required of cars going much faster in the corners with an incredible increase in downforce, like none of those drivers ever felt before. Perhaps it was a similar situation to the Smiley wreck a decade later when they simply tried to correct for a rear end that got slightly loose, perhaps something none of the films were able to catch.
Taking a hard right in the middle of a turn at Indy is fortunately quite rare, but that's what took out Art and Jim, and it could have had something to do with the big wings.
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Go right ahead, and I will prefer the no wings with the cars not smashed to the track.
To only include 1974 in the equasion is also incorrect, the rules stayed the same through 1979.
Excuse me?To only include 1974 in the equasion is also incorrect, the rules stayed the same through 1979.
Where did I say anything relating to that? I said that I attended the two years of the new regulations, then attended the year where USAC CHANGED the regulations. What has it got to do with the following years?
.....'Stick500, 'All accounts I've ever heard or read regarding Jim Malloy's accident in May of '72 were blamed on the wind. I remember how psyched out and near panicked Vuky was in interviews right after that and especially when he went out and spun! Hence: his poor qualifying effort.
But all these drivers we've mentioned, all mysteriously just "lost it." We don't recall the seasoned, professionals like Foyt, Andretti, the Unser's just flat losing it? Despite the years and thousands of miles around that place.
With Gordon Smiley, who'll ever forget the quote from a photographer that after seeing Smiley on his warmup lap through 1 and 2 saying, "he won't make it back around." And also the frustration that Gary Bettenhausen had trying to give Smiley some useful coaching.
What useful coaching are you referring to?
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- Eddie Sachs.
I agree everyone is entitled their opinion, but I think there are facts and a 10 MPH reduction in average speed in a single year is significant. I suspect the reduction in corner speeds were more than 10mph, but I do not know with 100% certainty. When ground effects came along, again cars were in uncharted territory and the impacts were severe and costly.
At the speed they run at Indy, a reduction of ten MPH does nothing for safety.
Remember Earnhart's crash at Daytona?
I swear he hit the wall at about 80 MPH head on. Sure he was going much faster down the track, but the wall impact looked relatively benign.
I'm sure that when these guys hit the wall at 180 they are VERY happy it isn't 190......
ZOOOM
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