Semi official cool old Indy car pics thread

[indyrjc]

This was the first time that the 500 had been won more than once by the same car. Pete DePaolo drove this same car to victory in 1925. The real car was lost decades ago and ceased to exist. However, in recent years a replica has been built around the correct engine (found at the Hershey Antique Auto Swap Meet) and has been run at several vintage race car meets in the 1925 configuration.

[KevMcNJ]

Yes, unfortunately Kathy passed away, maybe 2002 after they had been divorced for awhile. I recall Kathy being very dedicated to him and always by his side. Poor Geoff had a LT relationship after that and his then fiance died also. Geoff survives that Daytona crash but his women died young...

What happened to her? Illness? Accident?

Never knew that Geoffrey was engaged and lost her too

I just lost a friend who was engaged.

I cannot imagine what her fiance' is going thru now

[Michael Ferner]

This was the first time that the 500 had been won more than once by the same car. Pete DePaolo drove this same car to victory in 1925. The real car was lost decades ago and ceased to exist. However, in recent years a replica has been built around the correct engine (found at the Hershey Antique Auto Swap Meet) and has been run at several vintage race car meets in the 1925 configuration.

While this has never been solved to a satisfactory degree, I'm still very confident that it is not true! To wit: in 1926, Fred Smith in Pennsylvania was widely reported to have bought the 1925 Indianapolis winning Duesenberg from Pete de Paolo, and one year later Bill White in California was said to have bought the '25 Indy winner from Phil Shafer.

The Fred Smith car has a continuous history from 1926 to 1930 minimum, and the Bill White car from 1927 to 1932 (by then owned by Clarence Tarbet), so they can't be the same. The Smith car was refered to as the 1925 winner in 1926 already, and still in 1929. The White car was refered to as the 1925 winner in 1927, but not later until the claim resurfaced in the 1960s, afaik. In 1931, the car was advertised for sale as the 1927 Indy winner, not mentioning any connections to de Paolo or 1925.

While it is true that Phil Shafer was de Paolo's team mate in both 1925 and 1926, he apparently bought a Duesenberg in 1926 either directly from de Paolo, or with his help from the factory team. De Paolo was switching back and forth between his new Miller and Duesenberg(s) in 1926, so the situation is much confused! But the acid test is photographic evidence, and the 1927 Indy winner is different in almost every detail from the 1925 winner. Good pictures of the Fred Smith Duesenberg are hard to find, but the new Langhorne book by Spencer Riggs contains quite a few, and they all show a car that looks much more like the 1925 winner than the Bill White car.

There is no doubt in my mind that the two Duesenberg Indy winners from 1925 and '27 are different car entities!

[Michael Ferner]

For easy reference, here are the two cars:

Most obvious differences are the shape of the tail section, the number of cooling slits on the scuttle, the upholstery and the position of the hood straps. The markings on the frame are even more telling, but not very visible in these shots. All these changes could be explained by a rebuilt, but there is no record of an accident necessitating such. Also, the Smith Duesenberg is consistent with most of these features from the de Paolo car.

[indyrjc]

While this has never been solved to a satisfactory degree, I'm still very confident that it is not true! To wit: in 1926, Fred Smith in Pennsylvania was widely reported to have bought the 1925 Indianapolis winning Duesenberg from Pete de Paolo, and one year later Bill White in California was said to have bought the '25 Indy winner from Phil Shafer.

The Fred Smith car has a continuous history from 1926 to 1930 minimum, and the Bill White car from 1927 to 1932 (by then owned by Clarence Tarbet), so they can't be the same. The Smith car was refered to as the 1925 winner in 1926 already, and still in 1929. The White car was refered to as the 1925 winner in 1927, but not later until the claim resurfaced in the 1960s, afaik. In 1931, the car was advertised for sale as the 1927 Indy winner, not mentioning any connections to de Paolo or 1925.

While it is true that Phil Shafer was de Paolo's team mate in both 1925 and 1926, he apparently bought a Duesenberg in 1926 either directly from de Paolo, or with his help from the factory team. De Paolo was switching back and forth between his new Miller and Duesenberg(s) in 1926, so the situation is much confused! But the acid test is photographic evidence, and the 1927 Indy winner is different in almost every detail from the 1925 winner. Good pictures of the Fred Smith Duesenberg are hard to find, but the new Langhorne book by Spencer Riggs contains quite a few, and they all show a car that looks much more like the 1925 winner than the Bill White car.

There is no doubt in my mind that the two Duesenberg Indy winners from 1925 and '27 are different car entities!

I'm certainly not arguing one way or the other but George Souders always stated that he drove the 1925 winner and there were apparently other period stories stating the same. I'm not sure that I've ever seen any quotes from DePaolo on the subject. I've tried to trace a few cars myself over the years and I've come to the conclusion that it's nearly impossible to identify many race cars after they have changed hands a couple of times; especially the older ones. I personally think that you may be onto something with the new photographs but on the other hand no car owner or mechanic ever got a new race car without making their own alterations to it. That's the part that really makes it tough to follow old race cars that long ago disappeared.

BTW, I have not seen the Langhorne book but will try to look up a copy. Thanks for your information.

Also, I have to wonder if it's possible that both owners believed that they had purchased the 1925 Indianapolis winning car. This has happened in more recent years when two different owners were sold the 1979 winning car from Roger Penske. The owners of the Dick Ferguson and Ron Shuman PC-6's in 1980 both believed that they had the Rick Mears car from the previous 500.

[sneva33]

Scott Brayton (and Ron Hemelgarn) MIS 1987

[sneva33]

Fabrizzio Barbazza (spelling?) 1987 MIS

[sneva33]

Michael Andretti 1987 Mid Ohio

[sneva33]

Mario Andretti 1987 Mid Ohio

[Ovalmeister]

Hey Dudley, who is the red #36 in the photo above? I looked in the results of that race and there is no #36 listed. Maybe this was a practice photo or something? Cool shot!
David.

[Ovalmeister]

Michael Chandler

[Ovalmeister]

Steve Chassey

[Ovalmeister]

Steve Chassey

[Ovalmeister]

Chet Fillip

[mlv]

Hey Dudley, who is the red #36 in the photo above? I looked in the results of that race and there is no #36 listed. Maybe this was a practice photo or something? Cool shot! :+
David.

It`s Graham McRae in NFW Racing`s, ex-Truesports, March 86C-Cosworth. This car belonged to Georg Walther and started only once in 1987 at Road America (McRae). Also this car had couple of DNQs: at Mid-Ohio(on picture) and at season closer Miami, driven by Ludwig Heimrath jr.

[Rick Jones]

Michael Chandler

What car make is this? It looks more like the "Batmobile" than an Eagle. It could be a knock off or a modified Eagle. I like it whatever it is.

[Rick Jones]

What car make is this? It looks more like the "Batmobile" than an Eagle. It could be a knock off or a modified Eagle. I like it whatever it is.

I just looked this car up. It's a 1983 Rattlesnake Cosworth. Chandler started 30th and finished 16th. His race ended due to gearbox troubles after 153 laps.

[stpwildcat]

What car make is this? It looks more like the "Batmobile" than an Eagle. It could be a knock off or a modified Eagle. I like it whatever it is.

designed by the same guy that did the Interscope Batmobile.

[BSJracing]

designed by the same guy that did the Interscope Batmobile.

Slobojinski or something like that wasn't it?

[stpwildcat]

Slobojinski or something like that wasn't it?

yes..beautiful machines

[Super44]

Roman Slobodynsky.. then there is an Eagle connection as he did some of the Eagles.. starting with the 72 model i think

[Rick Jones]

Another view of Chandler in the '83 Rattlesnake.

[chaparral 2k]

Another view of Chandler in the '83 Rattlesnake.

I had no clue that there was a Rattlesnake car.....amazing!
We learn something new everyday

[sneva33]

Didn't Vuky Jr. or Gary B (maybe both) attempt to qual. or at least practice in one of the Rattlesnake chassis, maybe in 81 or 82?

[mlv]

Didn't Vuky Jr. or Gary B (maybe both) attempt to qual. or at least practice in one of the Rattlesnake chassis, maybe in 81 or 82?

Steve Chassey destroyed the first Rattlesnake chassis during Indy practice in 1982. This car had similar colour scheme (black with purple,red and yellow stripes) as on 83 car but wore #11 and was sponsored by Hubler Chevy. Vuky attempted to qualify for the same team (Rattlesnake Racing) in 1981 but in Watson built car.

[sneva33]

Steve Chassey destroyed the first Rattlesnake chassis during Indy practice in 1982. This car had similar colour scheme (black with purple,red and yellow stripes) as on 83 car but wore #11 and was sponsored by Hubler Chevy. Vuky attempted to qualify for the same team (Rattlesnake Racing) in 1981 but in Watson built car.

Thanks, I knew I remembered hearing his name on the PA and being listed as an R'snake. Still a few memory cells functioning!!

[j.d.c]

who owned Rattlesnake racing?

[mlv]

who owned Rattlesnake racing?

Harry Schwartz & John Martin (not driver) from Cantonment, Florida. They were builders of Rattlesnakes as well. 82 cars(they built 2) were copies of 81 March.

[Rick Jones]

I had no clue that there was a Rattlesnake car.....amazing!
We learn something new everyday

1981 to '83 I lived in Ohio. I only was at the track for pole day and the race those years. I wasn't receiving much news about Indy in Columbus, and definitely no photos in the paper. These years I do not remember the cars as well as most other years, especially the cars that were not the front runners. I do remember the "Batmobile", the Penske's, March's, and Wildcat's, but I don't remember Rattlesnakes.

[MichaelP]

Then and now (actually my photos are the Mormon Meteor III. The coolest car I've ever seen). The Meteor III is VERY significant in that not only was it a LSR car holding a 24 hour record, it was the last Duesenburg, hand built by Augie himself. Supposedly there was some talk last year about IMS acquiring this car. Also, Ab Jenkins - the driver - was the Mayor of Salt Lake City.