Time for a change?
Whenever this is brought up the private/parochial school fans call the rest of us whiners but, seriously, the current rules are crap and they put public schools at a distinct disadvantage. What have other states done to address this lack of fairness?
Center Grove Trojans
2008 5A Football State Champs
2011 Track State Champs
I don't know where to get the numbers but what is astonishing is to see the percentages of IHSAA schools that are private/parochial versus the percentages of those that win at each level.
Still, those who point it out are "whiners".
Schools that don't like parochial schools beating them should GET BETTER.
They should work harder both in season and in the off season. It's not that difficult to figure out.
You don't hear of parochial schools whining when they are beaten by public schools.
Have a very blessed day!
I don't know if it is still the case, but in New Jersey the Catholic schools played in local area conferences, but competed for the state parochial school championship. And there were South Jersey and North Jersey group champions. So there were three sets of state champions for any given year.
I wish I knew - Dennis "Cutty" Wise
When its game time, it's pain time! - Terrible Terry Tate
Because it doesn't happen very often.
I have no dog in this hunt. My team if 5A and there are no privates in 5A.
But it seems to me that those saying "get better" are allowed to bring guns to the knife fights.
Several of the athletic sections in New York booted private schools when it came out that several were recruiting purely for athletics as well as awarding athletic scholarships. In order to gain admittance to the athletic sections, they had to agree that they would not admit, recruit or give athletic scholarships out.
If they are allowed to recruit and offer scholarships, they should not be allowed to play teams than can't.
Recruiting has been around forever. I graduated from a Catholic grade school in 1961 but had to play for the Public school my 8th grade year. (Too big for the CYO League our school was in). When I graduated, I was offered a scholarship to attend one of the Catholic High Schools by a "Private Booster Group". I declined - eight years of nuns were enough!Originally Posted by Jsieczka
so long as the school qualifies to be in the division it is placed in, the ownness is on the competitors to beat 'em or join 'em. Pretty simple. And let me say this also before he "oh you know's" come flying.............
If YOU KNOW that there are kids receiving improper benefits or scholarships and you are not reporting it, then you are just as much to blame. if you have no proof, you are throwing **** to see what sticks, jus like the other whiners. (you being whoever wants to use that claim) prove it or don't use it. BEAT 'EM OR JOIN 'EM.
Everyone up and down pit lane want to ***** about Penske and Ganassi but guess where they send their resume every year? Yeup.
If you don't stand behind our troops, PLEASE, feel free to stand in front of them.
Jesus Saves! Passes to Noah.....He shoots, he scores!
Have a yearly draft for 8th. graders...
My major malfunction is...I want the people I love and respect to live forever...The problem is...Life don't work that way...
P.S. Questions, comments, death threats, invitations to a pigs bris, my number is still (317) 809-4483
I don't get too worked up about the recruiting. It happens at both private and public schools. See Warren Central in football and Lawrence North or Bloomington South in basketball. See also Trey Lyles and how he wound up at Tech. It happens.
To me the biggest disparity is what i call the derelict factor. Public schools have them by the hundreds and can't turn them away yet they still count against the enrollment even though they do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in sports or other extra curriculars. Private schools don't have to take them. Public schools do. It's actually a compliment to private schools but it clearly gives them a distinct advantage in class sports.
Illinois has a multiplier system - Private schools multiply their enrollment by 1.65 to get their adjusted enrollment. I don't really see where it has done anything except hurt the smaller private schools (which my son will attend next year). My son will go to a Lutheran High School with an enrollment of just over 200 (co-ed). The multiplier bumps them up a class or two and they have a very difficult time competing. I believe the football team has won 4 games the last three years. The larger private schools (Brother Rice, Mother McAuley, etc) already have large enrollments that put them in the top classes anyway.
6 of the 16 teams playing in this years football finals are private schools. They went 1-1 yesterday, with the rest playing today.
I don't really have a good solution, I don't think the multiplier does any good and I don't want them to split it up into Public and Private Championships. I'm still ticked off that they went to four classes in basketball!
"You see Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care."
TD, I know you aren't anti-Catholic/private schools, so no problem there. Since I don't follow HS sports, my question is honest and not provocative. Do the Catholic/privates dominate in other sports or just football?
I played football at a Catholic grade school and public hs. At least back in the 70's, I could see the difference between CYO kids and non-CYO kids when it came to fundamentals (but not in all cases).
Private schools recruiting? We were bitching about that back in the 60s but today what scares me is when a public school like Ben Davis that has the where with all to erect a 100 ft coaching tower at the edge of their practice field.
Hell my college coach would have liked one of them.
"Ride The Barrel & Get Pitted... So Pitted."
Texas has the UIL for public schools and several state associations for private and parochial schools...but the UIL recently admitted the two largest Catholic schools in the state under special circumstances and under strict guidelines.
They dominate in most class sports. Some more than others.
I've spent some time with CYO teams recently and they are similar to most youth programs in that some are better than others. The only real advantage I see to the CYO league is that they keep the kids through middle school.
The facilities advantage is clearly tilted toward the public schools -- especially among the bigger public schools.
Private schools can't touch them in Bible Verse memorization.
Sure has helped my daughter's school's football program, Lawrence North.
Thanks for answering my earlier question. With some of the outstanding athletes at some of the big schools, I kind of figured the CYO advantage disappeared years ago.
Private school football in Texas is a complete afterthought.
They play for their own championships that no one cares about.
Same for basketball.
"Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and your going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down." -- Edward Blume
Is it really that big a deal?
TD, what do you see as unfair? Is is a recruiting advantage, feeder system advantage, both, or something else?
See comment #11.
I think it is. For instance this year's Indian Creek team had a once in a lifetime collection of size, strength, speed and talent. It's team was good enough to beat any other team its size that played by the same rules. Private schools play by different rules that give them a tremendous advantage.
So today Chatard won it's 10th state championship and Indian Creek kids watched on TV. La-ti-da...
I can only speak for the Catholic School my children attended. I have first hand knowledge, but take it for WIIW.
First, we have had coaches come around with a group of kids asking for scholarships. First, we do not offer scholarships, we assist with tuition and it is based upon a formula and done by a third party. That usually results in a very short conversation. We only have so much to go around and no one gets 100%. We want the family to be invested in their education and ask they put in the effort to participate in the financing. Novel concept, but it keeps the motivated students and pushes out the dead wood.
Secondly, we only recruit to the extent we have a CYO program. The coaches all sing from the same hymnal, and the kids know how to play and how the system works when they get to high school. The good public programs do the same thing.
Third, we always struggle for money. We have no home field, practice on a field that periodically gets cleared for rocks to protect knees and elbows. It is no Taj Mahal. We work bingos to make money for the athletic programs, run suppers and reverse raffles. The school has one of the most diverse racial and socioeconomic mixes of any Catholic school in the diocese. Most kids come from poor or mmiddle income households.
Fourthly, we do not recruit. I am sure others do, but we provide a program of integrity and winning, which attracts winners and successful kids.
Lastly, they tend to win because of one trade secret - they work very hard at it. None of it is easy, but the kids give it their all and share in the common bond of Christian education, except for the occassional Middle Eastern exchange student that just wants to be part of the group and tries football. The team is not hand picked - we play with who we have. It helps that one of the coaches that lives across the street from the school has produced an endless string of good QBs. Other than that, the kids are all from the local neighborhoods and they get a foundation in life. It is a pleasure to give some of these kids a shot.
As an edit, one of the successes is now returning kicks for the Colts (up until he thought he was a linebacker, that is). http://www.archindy.org/criterion/lo...19/ritter.html
Last edited by WheelerDealer; 11-27-2010 at 09:49 PM. Reason: Update
“Jealousy is the tribute mediocrity pays to genius.” -- Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen
TD, your drum has been beat. Work harder, get the parents involved, use the talent that is in the building and win or sit and watch as the MINORITY work harder, have involved parents and use the talent they have to win.
You had me up until that line. To imply that the private schools work harder than all public schools is simply bunk.
BTW, when you mentioned your CYO program running your high school program I immediately guessed that you were referring to St. Mike's. Theirs is the most impressive CYO program I have seen.
Talk about the drum that has been beaten.
Work harder. Get better. Blah blah blah...
Yours is really an arrogant statement when you think about it.
Not saying the pubs do not work hard. I am saying the school works hard, and that is why they are successful, as did Dullaghan, for example, when he got to Ben Davis.
They do work hard. But that isn't the reason they win at such a substantially higher percentage than the publics.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks