Catholic Schools Win All Four Indiana Classes They Compete In.

[mikesorg]

My issue is that if the rules are changed, some schools will be much more negatively affected.
While trying to stop Cathedral from winning every year, Scecina and Ritter would face nearly impossible odds.

If you want to give everyone a fair shot, work to allow students to swap between public schools freely. This change would give major advantages to more than just the sports programs.

[Kurt Cobain]

The accusations of cheating?, past experience. Mt. Carmel, Joliet Academy and Providence Catholic pretty much caused the rule changes in Illinois due to their success. And I have seen, read and heard first hand for years the accusations of cheating, which have disappeared now that the multiplier has them playing schools much larger. (So now that thye are losing nobody cares if they cheat I guess?) So be it, the accusations have stopped for the most part, so I guess the multiplier has worked. Mt. Carmel lost the 8A championship game this year, Joliet lost in the quarters, (both to public schools) and Providence missed the playoffs. But frankly, having followed HS football pretty closely the past 15 years or so, I think it has more to do with the vastly improved suburban programs than anything else.

The privates were 1-1 outside of Chicago. Rock Island Alleman lost to Rochester (blown out is more like it) in the Class 4A finale, while Sterling Newman won again in Class 2A. I think that was Newman's second straight championship. Time to move 'em up. Alleman probably should be playing in 6A as they are the only 4A school in a conference that features 6A and 7A schools from the Quad Cities (excluding Quincy).

[Truth Detector]

My issue is that if the rules are changed, some schools will be much more negatively affected.
While trying to stop Cathedral from winning every year, Scecina and Ritter would face nearly impossible odds.

My goal isn't to give every team a championship. My goal is to have all schools playing by the same rules. Besides Ritter would be fine.

If you want to give everyone a fair shot, work to allow students to swap between public schools freely. This change would give major advantages to more than just the sports programs.

It would also give a TREMENDOUS advantage to all schools in major metropolitan areas.

[mikesorg]

I'm not sure what I would consider to be the most fair either, but I like the idea of winning two championships in a row bumps you up a class.

If you could design the formula, how would it look?

[Truth Detector]

I'm not sure what I would consider to be the most fair either, but I like the idea of winning two championships in a row bumps you up a class.

If you could design the formula, how would it look?

Private schools would be in their own league.

That won't happen so in lieu of that I like the 2-titles and you move up rule.

[Frank Capua]

I'm not Catholic, I went to public school but I have friends with a son playing for Cardinal Ritter and have attended a couple of their games and what impresses me when I do is the parent participation from the snack bar to filling up the grandstands.

[Truth Detector]

I'm not Catholic, I went to public school but I have friends with a son playing for Cardinal Ritter and have attended a couple of their games and what impresses me when I do is the parent participation from the snack bar to filling up the grandstands.

Agreed. But catholic schools don't have that market cornered.

Indian Creek kids don't have enough players to form their own league so they travel to CG's complex to play our teams every week. That's 15-20 miles each way just for an elementary rec league game. That's impressive.

[Frank Capua]

Agreed. But catholic schools don't have that market cornered.

Didn't mean to suggest there wasn't parent participation at public schools... my folks attended my games back in the day but it's the level of participation that I was impressed by.

[Truth Detector]

I see that within our own school. I coached baseball and had to beg parents to get involved. In football there are so many parents getting involved that we turn down volunteers every year. More proof that ours has become a football state IMHO.

[Kurt Cobain]

I see that within our own school. I coached baseball and had to beg parents to get involved. In football there are so many parents getting involved that we turn down volunteers every year. More proof that ours has become a football state IMHO.

Very true. When my son last played six years ago, my then wife and I were on a list of volunteers and never once got called upon to help. We were kind of disappointed, but at least we got to watch every second of him play.

[fasteddy]

The privates were 1-1 outside of Chicago. Rock Island Alleman lost to Rochester (blown out is more like it) in the Class 4A finale, while Sterling Newman won again in Class 2A. I think that was Newman's second straight championship. Time to move 'em up. Alleman probably should be playing in 6A as they are the only 4A school in a conference that features 6A and 7A schools from the Quad Cities (excluding Quincy).

But I don't understand why you think Alleman should be moved up from 4A to 6A when they got blown out in the 4A champ game?

Anyway, as you go south (and smaller) in Illinois I know less about the teams. What I have noticed is the emergence of elite public school programs like WWS, Main South, Lake Zurich, Prospect. the Naperville schools, and many others that consistently go deep into the playoffs. I doubt that the best HS football players are continually born in these towns, and it is likely they have good "programs", which proves the point (IMO) that you "work harder and get better". The offensive and defensive schemes of some of these schools is VERY impressive.

Something else I have always believed is that "affluence" was a big factor, those towns I mentioned are pretty nice places to live. TD's idea of the "derelict factor" I think holds water. What you can do about it I have no idea, but it helps some publics as well as privates IMO.

[PHJIndy]

h

[Truth Detector]

h

I love ya, PHJ. I know this hits close to home and that you've bitten your tongue. As I said earlier, I have nothing but respect for the private schools and think that Cathedral would be very competitive in 5A.

[Frank Capua]

All I know is that back when I played in little league I hated it when we had to play CYO teams... because they always hit harder than anyone else we played back then.

[indyracefan]

Kinda deviating from the topic but I am Catholic but went to Perry Twp. schools. The reason being was back in the early 1970's the athletic programs weren't as good as the public schools and even the education wasn't as broad. Roncalli was almost next door to where I grew up and almost everyone in the neighborhood was Catholic and went there except my brother, sister, myself and one other neighbor. Their athletics sucked back then, Southport owned them in baseball, basketball and football and Southport sucked. So with that said I guess that's why I kinda like seeing the Catholic schools dominate now, especially when we've seen for years Carmel, Warren Central, Ben Davis, etc. dominate with their semi-pro athletic approach.

[Truth Detector]

Kinda deviating from the topic but I am Catholic but went to Perry Twp. schools. The reason being was back in the early 1970's the athletic programs weren't as good as the public schools and even the education wasn't as broad. Roncalli was almost next door to where I grew up and almost everyone in the neighborhood was Catholic and went there except my brother, sister, myself and one other neighbor. Their athletics sucked back then, Southport owned them in baseball, basketball and football and Southport sucked.

Almost the exact opposite of our neighbors -- the Corsaros. Danny & Greg grew up playing in Center Grove's bantam football program then went on to dominate at Roncalli. Greg was Marion County athlete of the year his senior year.

So with that said I guess that's why I kinda like seeing the Catholic schools dominate now, especially when we've seen for years Carmel, Warren Central, Ben Davis, etc. dominate with their semi-pro athletic approach.

Agreed, but the Catholics haven't touched them since they're in 5A.

[MoparsRule]

New website just launched to discuss such things...

http://hoosierhighschoolsports.com/

[Kurt Cobain]

But I don't understand why you think Alleman should be moved up from 4A to 6A when they got blown out in the 4A champ game?

Anyway, as you go south (and smaller) in Illinois I know less about the teams. What I have noticed is the emergence of elite public school programs like WWS, Main South, Lake Zurich, Prospect. the Naperville schools, and many others that consistently go deep into the playoffs. I doubt that the best HS football players are continually born in these towns, and it is likely they have good "programs", which proves the point (IMO) that you "work harder and get better". The offensive and defensive schemes of some of these schools is VERY impressive.

Something else I have always believed is that "affluence" was a big factor, those towns I mentioned are pretty nice places to live. TD's idea of the "derelict factor" I think holds water. What you can do about it I have no idea, but it helps some publics as well as privates IMO.

Fast, Alleman can draw students not only from Rock Island, but Moline, East Moline, Geneseo, Milan, Silvis, and I heard a while back a couple from Davenport--despite the fact there's a Catholic school (Assumption) in the city. Rock Island High School--which has been a pretty decent power for the past several years thanks to Vic Boblett, would dominate if they could draw from that lot and not just Milan (who's students have always gone to Rocky).

Anyway, Alleman went unbeaten this year in the Western Big 6, which are either 5A, 6A or 7A.

[Truth Detector]

State Finals set:

1A: Lafayette Central Catholic vs. Indianapolis Scecina
2A: Fort Wayne Bishop Luers vs. Evansville Mater Dei
3A: South Bend St. Joseph's vs. Indianapolis Bishop Chatard
4A: South Bend Washington vs. Indianapolis Cathedral
5A: No private schools participate in 5A

The private schools are shown in red.

[mikesorg]

Glad to see my school, Scecina back fighting for a championship. If other schools can't compete, so be it.

[Truth Detector]

Glad to see my school, Scecina back fighting for a championship. If other schools can't compete, so be it.

I have seen it stated (don't know if it is a fact) that Scecina had 10 freshmen last year and 25 sophomores this year. How did that happen?

[DannyB]

State Finals set:

1A: Lafayette Central Catholic vs. Indianapolis Scecina
2A: Fort Wayne Bishop Luers vs. Evansville Mater Dei
3A: South Bend St. Joseph's vs. Indianapolis Bishop Chatard
4A: South Bend Washington vs. Indianapolis Cathedral
5A: No private schools participate in 5A

The private schools are shown in red.

A rare day when I can cheerfuly agree with TD and disagree with PHJ.

Friday night it was my town's ox that was being gored. No whining, no sour grapes. Just disappointing is all.

Cathedral 62 Columbus East 7. A monumental mismatch.

[PDC]

Cathedral 62 Columbus East 7. A monumental mismatch.

I don't follow high school football, but isn't that the team Gunner Kiel plays for? If so, is he all they have?

[Truth Detector]

I don't follow high school football, but isn't that the team Gunner Kiel plays for? If so, is he all they have?

Yes it is, but I don't know about what else they have.

[PDC]

Thanks TD. BTW, you didn't list the finalists in 5A. I'm guessing Lawrence North is not one of them.

[mikesorg]

Couldn't tell you for sure, but was that number just from the freshman team, jv or only from the varsity team? I would assume they moved up from one of these teams to varsity. when I was there, seemingly every kid came from one of the feeder schools. We don't import, we develop.

[BADGER]

I had to look it up to confirm, but IL bases their classes on enrollment and for the private schools, the have a multiplier (1.65) for enrollment. I'm not sure how well it has worked , but it seems like as fair a method as any.

[Truth Detector]

Thanks TD. BTW, you didn't list the finalists in 5A. I'm guessing Lawrence North is not one of them.

You guess correctly.

I didn't list them because there aren't any private schools in 5A but the finalists are Carmel & Penn.

[Truth Detector]

Couldn't tell you for sure, but was that number just from the freshman team, jv or only from the varsity team? I would assume they moved up from one of these teams to varsity. when I was there, seemingly every kid came from one of the feeder schools. We don't import, we develop.

Supposedly the total number of freshmen/sophomores playing.

[Truth Detector]

I had to look it up to confirm, but IL bases their classes on enrollment and for the private schools, the have a multiplier (1.65) for enrollment. I'm not sure how well it has worked , but it seems like as fair a method as any.

I have heard that and I believe Indiana considered it a couple of years ago but didn't adopt it. What I'm hearing now is that if you win back-to-back state championships you will get moved up a class.

I'm not sure what is fair but the current system isn't.