The long yellows

[Z28]

At one point they commented on the radio that about 28 of 89 laps of the race being under caution. The cleanup of debris needs to be done after a wreck but all of the yellows last almost that long. Sitting there I couldn't help but put the blame on a combination of the double file restarts and Firestone.

From the start one of the drivers' complaints was restarting on the outside with marbles. In response the series began sending sweepers and blowers out on every caution to make that outside lane clearer. That means even a simple spin with no debris causes a long delay for those slow sweepers to make a lap.

They wouldn't have to do that if Firestone wasn't making such soft, and grippy and fast tires that shaved off so many marbles.

The trade off appears to be, higher racing speeds with the racier tires and the closer racing competition by bunching up for double file restarts but longer caution periods while the marbles are swept up by those slow sweepers and blowers because the outside lane needs to be cleared.

After the season I think they should evaluate not how many yellows there are but how much of the racing laps they eat up to clear the marbles. Then decide if the clean up for the double file restarts makes those restarts worth the racing time lost or if Firestone should make more of an effort to have tires that give off less rubber that needs to be swept.

[TimmyZ1]

At one point they commented on the radio that about 28 of 89 laps of the race being under caution. The cleanup of debris needs to be done after a wreck but all of the yellows last almost that long. Sitting there I couldn't help but put the blame on a combination of the double file restarts and Firestone.

From the start one of the drivers' complaints was restarting on the outside with marbles. In response the series began sending sweepers and blowers out on every caution to make that outside lane clearer. That means even a simple spin with no debris causes a long delay for those slow sweepers to make a lap.

They wouldn't have to do that if Firestone wasn't making such soft, and grippy and fast tires that shaved off so many marbles.

The trade off appears to be, higher racing speeds with the racier tires and the closer racing competition by bunching up for double file restarts but longer caution periods while the marbles are swept up by those slow sweepers and blowers because the outside lane needs to be cleared.

After the season I think they should evaluate not how many yellows there are but how much of the racing laps they eat up to clear the marbles. Then decide if the clean up for the double file restarts makes those restarts worth the racing time lost or if Firestone should make more of an effort to have tires that give off less rubber that needs to be swept.

They would have had an excuse for a red flag for the Conwheezy/Beatriz wreck. Looked like a plane crash with all that shrapnel floating around. Which goes back to the orginal comment long yellow. These cars disengrate when wreck and shed a lot of parts. Much more then lets say a cup car. Lot more to clean up. It also seems they always leak a ton of fluids when they wreck but I'm assuming because stuff is stored in the side pods.

[Oben]

Firestone actually brought harder rubber to Iowa this year, which made the cars more difficult to drive, probably leading to more yellows. I think the only real difference in the length of the yellows is double file restarts.

Long yellows are a drag, but my feeling so far is that I was already irritated by sitting through yellows before double file came along, and that now at least I have something to look forward to. The restarts on ovals are a lot better this year than in years past.

I think double file restarts are here to stay, so they probably need to figure out how to clean up the marbles faster. Making the tires harder doesn't seem to make that much of a difference.

[Ydawg]

There was a high groove all night long which is what contributed to the amazing
racing.

[burbanite]

And to give them credit, they were actually attending to several possibly serious injuries during that time.

[jackinbox]

I have to say it was pretty nice watching the F1 yesterday without a single caution. 6 of the 8 F1 races this season have had ZERO. Gotta love it!

[Wang Chung]

6 of the 8 F1 races this season have had ZERO.[/QUOTE]

Cautions, or overtakes?

(I'm seriously joking).

[jcmark611]

I have to say it was pretty nice watching the F1 yesterday without a single caution. 6 of the 8 F1 races this season have had ZERO. Gotta love it!

You going to pay to upgrade all US tracks to standards and all the extra equipment for car removal?

[vintage]

Seems like they need to drive the blower and sweeper trucks faster - do they really need to drive 5 mph to work? Maybe so.

[NoviVespa]

Seems like they need to drive the blower and sweeper trucks faster - do they really need to drive 5 mph to work? Maybe so.

Maybe at 5 mph, all the debris gets blown off the track. And, maybe at faster speeds it only blows it to the middle of the track.

[Hitokiri]

I have to say it was pretty nice watching the F1 yesterday without a single caution. 6 of the 8 F1 races this season have had ZERO. Gotta love it!

Haha. This debate between American open wheel and it's long full course yellows and F1's local yellows has been raging on for ever.

We must realize that these yellows did happen on an oval course 7/8 of a mile long which isn't big at all. It would make sense to clear as much debris as possible. Plus some of those hits were not small ones and fixing and checking the walls is always a concern mostly on an oval. So yeah - boo hoo but that's American open wheel. Like it or not on oval you're going to have long yellows.

[houstonracefan]

I have to say it was pretty nice watching the F1 yesterday without a single caution. 6 of the 8 F1 races this season have had ZERO. Gotta love it!

The other 2 F1 races have been Barnhartesque Safety Car parades, most of which should have been handled under a local yellow.

I know you cannot do local yellows on ovals (MAYBE you could for off track incidents at Indy given its size), but both IndyCar and F1 need to have a look at early 1990s CART/F1 to be reminded when a safety car is needed, and when an incident can be cleared under flags

[drewdawg727]

We must realize that these yellows did happen on an oval course 7/8 of a mile long which isn't big at all. It would make sense to clear as much debris as possible. Plus some of those hits were not small ones and fixing and checking the walls is always a concern mostly on an oval. So yeah - boo hoo but that's American open wheel. Like it or not on oval you're going to have long yellows.

I agree with most of what you say...but you have to admit that sometimes Race Control gets yellow flag "trigger happy".
Bia makes light contact with the wall at Milwaukee (CC of what Briscoe did a few laps before) and we need a 10-lap yellow flag? Come on.

[Hitokiri]

I agree with most of what you say...but you have to admit that sometimes Race Control gets yellow flag "trigger happy".
Bia makes light contact with the wall at Milwaukee (CC of what Briscoe did a few laps before) and we need a 10-lap yellow flag? Come on.

I think race control took this chance to try to clear up the outside line on the oval. Indycar drivers were complaining about the slippery outside line mainly due to the rubber laid down by the other series racing on that same weekend. When you have USAC, Road to Indy, and Indycar tires intermixed each with its own compound = slipperiness unknown before to any driver. Race Control tried to clean it up but it seems with minimal results since most drivers were still lines up in that inner 1 1/2 lines (as Graham Rahal called it) when Milwaukee usually has a full 2 even 3 lines in the past. It was for the sake of good racing in other words.

[PHJIndy]

I'd rather be safe than sorry. One peice of debris can be catastrophic.
I just don't mind an extra lap or two for saftey's sake.

[houstonracefan]

I'd rather be safe than sorry. One peice of debris can be catastrophic.
I just don't mind an extra lap or two for saftey's sake.

If these are the best drivers in the world, shoudn't they be good enough to drive around debris?

[PHJIndy]

If these are the best drivers in the world, shoudn't they be good enough to drive around debris?

[rrrr]

If these are the best drivers in the world, shoudn't they be good enough to drive around debris?

Yeah, if they could see a one of hundreds of inch long pieces of black CF on the track.

[PHJIndy]

Yeah, if they could see a one of hundreds of inch long pieces of black CF on the track.

Or a 1/2" bolt.

[burbanite]

Or a 1/2" bolt.

This is a tractor race?

[ArtVandalay]

An earlier poster blames marble cleanup for long yellows and suggests that Firestone make a marble free tire. I would love that as well....the cars would be much harder to control ...at the risk of more crashes (and resultant yellows) ...but with the benefit of having the truly great drivers able to show their ability in spuirely cars. Unfortunately, neither Firestone nor any other tire maker would want drivers during every race interview complaining about crappy tires with no grip. Consequently, I'm pretty sure the marbles are staying.

[vancecooley]

I think part of the problem is that there is no direct communication from race control to the fans. I would prefer to see some system like the F1 one, that transmits what exactly is going on, rather than waiting on the yahoo's in the booth to tell me.
"Race control reports sweeping of debris and marbles on the upper groove. Green flag in three laps" Would probably be better than people sitting at home going "WTF is taking so long!!!!"

[drewdawg727]

I'd rather be safe than sorry. One peice of debris can be catastrophic.
I just don't mind an extra lap or two for saftey's sake.

It's very rare to see a caution on an oval last less than 5 laps.
Especially since they have to make at least 4 laps for those nailbiter pitstops and wave-arounds.

[Dave Long]

Stop closing the pits and then letting everyone come in at the same time under yellow and you'll shorten the yellows at least three laps.

[Littleman]

Can you imagine todays Indycar drivers racing on a rut filled mile dirt track - or the oiled dirt of Langhorne? lol Must agree, yellows are way to long and when there is a multiple car wreck, stop the darn race, don't go running useless laps under yellow. As for the double file re-starts, hell, they're double file on the original starts, aren't they? Take the freakin' wings off the cars t slow them down and put the drivers butt more into the equation. That would eliminate a lot of the dreaded "marbles", with less downforce. Did they have these problems back when the RE cars first came out - wingless? Ok, I know back then they had single file re-starts - still, the racing was as good if not better, in my opinion

[drewdawg727]

Stop closing the pits and then letting everyone come in at the same time under yellow and you'll shorten the yellows at least three laps.

Someone understands...
It is very plain to see. Potential close racing and excitement is being lost by lengthy yellows. I know it's a catch-22 with the marbles VS. the green track, but something's gotta give. I would much rather see safety trump anything, but there has to be some way to meet in the middle.

At least we haven't seen "debris on the track" yellows as of late (knock on wood)

[bascott62]

Stop closing the pits and then letting everyone come in at the same time under yellow and you'll shorten the yellows at least three laps.

+1

[burbanite]

Stop closing the pits and then letting everyone come in at the same time under yellow and you'll shorten the yellows at least three laps.

It will be the same, they still have to do what they have to do regardless of whether it is before or after the pit stops.

[StatMan]

Cautions, or overtakes?

At one point they commented on the radio that about 28 of 89 laps of the race being under caution

It didn't get much better as it went on - about 30% of the race (by laps) was caution, which means the split by time was even worse and possibly greater than 50% yellow.

[houstonracefan]

Can you imagine todays Indycar drivers racing on a rut filled mile dirt track - or the oiled dirt of Langhorne? lol Must agree, yellows are way to long and when there is a multiple car wreck, stop the darn race, don't go running useless laps under yellow. As for the double file re-starts, hell, they're double file on the original starts, aren't they? Take the freakin' wings off the cars t slow them down and put the drivers butt more into the equation. That would eliminate a lot of the dreaded "marbles", with less downforce. Did they have these problems back when the RE cars first came out - wingless? Ok, I know back then they had single file re-starts - still, the racing was as good if not better, in my opinion

the wings are here to stay. Please advance into the latter half of the 20th century