It's not the Borg Warner Challenge. It's not the Stanley Cup Challenge. It's not the Lombardi Challenge.Originally Posted by doitagain
It's not about negativity. It's about changes that continually get made that don't fix a problem.
It's not the Borg Warner Challenge. It's not the Stanley Cup Challenge. It's not the Lombardi Challenge.
It's not about negativity. It's about changes that continually get made that don't fix a problem.
"Try some of these before or after your statements if you are not presenting them as facts. Things like - "In my opinion", or "I think that", JHMO, IMHO, IMO, JMO... Your opinions are not (necessarily) fact. That would clear things up some." - Seadog 03/25/2010 11:40am So the above is JMO.
This guy got it right. The only person would care to know the whole history of championship trophies would be someone who's already been following the sport for 20 years.
Dario I present you with the Astor Challenge Cup for being the IZOD IndyCar Series Champion. Sounds legit to me.
Do you guys know what the definition for facetious is? Get your undies out of that bunch!!! Like I am honestly going to sit there and have that conversation with somebody. Get real!
What's the point Gonzo? Have extra time to type and yer bored?
My wife couldn't tell you what any of the trophies are for, what their names are, etc....but she goes to NFL games and IndyCar races. Are seriously trying to tell us that you have introduced friends to the Indy500 by leading with the Borg-Trophy? Or that you like NFL games because of the Lombardi?
No one but us gives a **** about the trophy! No one knows who Lord Stanley is....or why Wimbledon gets served on a silver platter! This is complaining to complain! Most casual fans don't know who Vince Lombardi is ( and I'm a diehard packer fan!). No one knows who the vanderbilts were, or that they ran a race at all....or that in a lame attempt to claim American racing history that cart cloned the trophy adding to the confusion of two Vanderbilt cups!
Shouldn't you be worrying more about why Helio, Briscoe and Dixie are to blame for Dario winning the title over Will than new fans throwing up their arms in confusion over a trophy?
"I think there's only so many people that can take care of themselves, and can take care of other people. And the rest of the people … they're useful in terms of compost for the whole planet, you know." - Bill Murray
I wonder if the series suits considered a 'nude man in a tire swing' trophy.
Uncle Si for Pace Car Driver - 2013!!
Ooh! Firestone might jump all over that!I wonder if the series suits considered a 'nude man in a tire swing' trophy.
I want the trophy to have value and meaning for aspiring race car drivers the world over. That will never happen so long as the Borg Warner is more important. Does the Astor Challenge Cup threaten the stature of the Borg? I don't think it comes close. Do you?
Do I like it as a trophy or think it is better than the whacky wheeler. Hell yes, it's a beautiful looking trophy, miles ahead of the whacky wheeler or the old Cup, and for that matter I also think it looks a lot nicer then the Vanderbilt.
Randy renamed the Astor Cup to the IZOD IndyCar Series World Championship Trophy instead of calling it the Astor Cup. Can't call it the Astor Cup. Talk about a lot of confusion is right.
After the dude on the unicycle I would be surprised if they didn't consider it.I wonder if the series suits considered a 'nude man in a tire swing' trophy.
91 -- Buddy Lazier -- Delta Faucet Hemelgarn Racing -- Reynard/Ford
The Borg Warner trophy well always have more value as long as the series and its cars are known at INDYcar or Indy car.
"The only good horsepower is usable horsepower.."
That's probably because you're one of a VERY small number of people who think it's a problem.
There was a .1 in Kentucky that says there are millions that know there are problems.
No trophy ever will, unless the 500 becomes the next United State Grand Prix. The F1 World Driver's Championship is the only series trophy that could hold up to it. It'd be on par with the Sprint Cup, something the Harley Earl Trophy isn't quite on par with.
I'm sick of people looking for reasons that something sucks. Guess what? If you dissect ANYTHING finely enough, you'll find out it sucks. Oi vey!
Nope. Millions of people don't care to watch the series. They have no opinion on whether anything is wrong with that series, at least not when it comes to things like the freakin' trophy.
You want to make this trophy as desirable as the Borg-Warner? Give the champion a $10 million bonus, and then run the series for twenty years at a high and successful level. As Dan Wheldon said, there was a point in time when the Indy 500 was a really cool new race idea in a sport with a number of really cool new race ideas. A century of running is what made it so special. Just like drivers in Europe grow up dreaming of standing over the French throng or next to the Price. They don't do it because the trophy in either case is exceptional!
I'm sick of people thinking things don't suck and sticking their head in the sand hoping and trusting things will just magically get better by playing with our pom poms. Go play in Hurley World if you don't like reality. I've respected that forum and stayed out of it! So oi vey yourself.
I never said there weren't problems; I only said that the trophy isn't one of them. But if it strengthens your frankly indefensible position, please continue to misrepresent my position. It seems to work for you.
Does the new trophy fix a problem, make a problem worse, or do nothing? For a series bringing home .1 ratings you would think they would want to try and improve things. I don't see how this trophy accomplishes anything. You've simply traded one ugly looking trophy for one that looks much better. The series hasn't offered any sort of prestige to winning the title. While we have our disagreements Hurley at least you have the intelligence to see the bigger picture most times. I'm not expecting a trophy to be the magic cure for everything that ails the series and I think you know that. It's but a very tiny piece of a much larger puzzle. But don't you think if you could start getting those pieces put together we might actually start seeing some improvements in the series. There haven't been any and .1 ratings prove that! Is the right trophy going to bring 2.0 ratings? No of course not. But the right trophy could eventually HELP start attracting top talent from around the globe. Will that happen over night? No!
It's at the point where the rest of the series really doesn't matter. All that matters is the Indy 500. The fans not in the stands support that notion, the fans not watching on TV support that notion, the coverage that the series doesn't get supports that notion. The only event that gets any interest whatsoever is the Indy 500.
That isn't the case in NASCAR. The series championship is as important as winning the Harley Earl trophy. Is it as prestigious, probably not but it is as important. The ratings support that, the audience supports that, the drivers support that the coverage supports that.
It was what was at the core of the creation of CART. That no one event should be more important then the collective events that make up the series.
The right trophy has the ability to help place a greater importance on the series as a whole. This new trophy while beautiful doesn't do that. It's just a shiny piece of metal. Show me anyplace where Randy came out and said you know what, this series is the most important thing and we now have something to properly represent that.
So like I asked, does this fix a problem, make a problem worse, or do nothing to improve things?
So be sick of things all you want. I'm sick of seeing the series I love languishing and killing itself off slowly!
So here is the fundamental point that divides us: Do you think the Astor Cup is sufficiently "cool" to do everything the trophy can do to make the series seem more prestigious? I think it does. Could someone come up with a trophy that appeals to them personally more? Sure, but that's true of any piece of art. I think the Astor Cup is certainly a pretty trophy, in a classic style, and the inclusion of all past champions back to the start of AAA sanction does as much as possible to link together the sport's various periods into one coherent whole, warts and all. I think whatever improvement could be accomplished via a new championship trophy (and clearly there was at least SOME given the prior trophy) has been accomplished by the Astor Cup. Anything else would just be tinkering over paint scheme on a boat with a hole in it.
You seem to think that more could have been done with the trophy to increase the prestige of the championship, and that the Astor Cup was an insufficient solution to the problem of the prior trophy's "uniqueness." Fine. I disagree. I like the Astor Cup. But maybe ten years from now we'll all look back and realize that you were right, and that the hole in the boat mattered way less than the paint job did.
I'm not looking for cool or prestigious. I want something that helps make the series on a whole more important.
Great that explains the divide then. You want something cool, you got something cool. I agree it's cool!
Maybe you aren't smart enough to see the bigger picture and I gave you too much credit earlier. I'm not talking about a paint job! I'm talking about fixing the hole! You tell me, how does the Astor Cup fix the hole?
I think you need to look up what prestigious means.
And I'm quite bright, actually. I don't think ANY trophy would fix the hole in the boat. I'm frankly stunned that you think there was such an option open to the series. That seems like crazy fixation.
And for this I get banned from the Indy Car forum?
I had a cup when I played football. Though, I never gave it a name.
Don't argue with idiots, it only makes you look stupid and infuriates the idiots.
Presenting, distinguished TrackForum scholars, FTHurley's "Big Suck" Theory!
I was always of the impreesion that some things blow.Presenting, distinguished TrackForum scholars, FTHurley's "Big Suck" Theory!
Just more evidence of an ever-accelerating and expanding universe - Hubble data confirmed. So now we know!Presenting, distinguished TrackForum scholars, FTHurley's "Big Suck" Theory!
"Each day well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness and every tomorrow a vision of hope. Look well therefore to this one day for it, and it alone, is life"
~ Sanskrit poem attributed to Kalidasa, "Salutation to the Dawn"
Brian's Wish
Gonzo, Just realize this. The posters who complain the most about you are the same ones that seek you out every single day. They are COMPELLED to read what you write because they are unable to put their thoughts to words like you can. You and I will continue to disagree on some things but like you, I will never venture to Hurley World either. Ernest
This thread has it all...a point & a counter-point, agreement & disagreement, suggestion & criticism, members agreeing & liking one another, members disagreeing & liking one another, members disagreeing & disliking one another, personal jabs, sarcasm, humor and a revelation on which forums some will & will not go to. Where's the 'sitting back watching while eating pop-corn' emoticon at?!
To the topic, I can understand the importance of an attractive and well-named trophy. I don't really think it can or will have any impact on attracting or discouraging fans to the series...but that's just my opinion.
My first Indy 500 was 1973, haven't missed one since 1981. To date I have attended 35 Indy 500's, and probably 100 or so other IndyCar races (CART & IRL).
I've said it multiple times already, it isn't about attracting or distracting fans, its about attracting drivers.
It is a crazy thread though. Just another of my many.
I just read through this thread and I regret that I won't get the past 4 minutes back. I should have known better.
Instead of a secret decoder ring to enter Hurley Land, you just need to wear a skirt!
And I'm fresh out of skirts.
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