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Thread: Gonzo? You there, dude?

  1. #1
    Insider FTHurley's Avatar
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    Gonzo? You there, dude?

    Haven't heard from you following Vegas (at least not that I saw). You out there?

  2. #2
    Registered User crsfulk's Avatar
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    Here is your answer...

    Last Activity10-16-2011 03:33 PM


    He may be a PITA, but after all he is our (TF) PITA!!

  3. #3
    Insider FTHurley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crsfulk View Post
    Here is your answer...

    Last Activity10-16-2011 03:33 PM


    He may be a PITA, but after all he is our (TF) PITA!!
    Yeah, that's why I was asking if he was alright.

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    wanted to hear what Gonzo had to say since I recall him being a proponent of pretty much anything that makes the racing more risquee and death defying. I could be mischaracterizing though
    "Unfortunately, the business types who now permeate the sport don't share this same gut centered devotion. I can only hope that the truly addicted will prevail, and that the original spirit of open wheel competition will somehow manage to survive and prosper into the future."
    -Dr. Stephen Olvey

  5. #5
    Insider lotuspoweredbyford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BizzyV View Post
    wanted to hear what Gonzo had to say since I recall him being a proponent of pretty much anything that makes the racing more death defying. I could be mischaracterizing though
    Nope. You've pretty much got it.
    "I think of Indianapolis every day of the year, every
    hour of the day, and when I sleep, too. Everything I
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    - Eddie Sachs.

  6. #6
    Registered User JMFVET's Avatar
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    Still kinda odd he has not been on TF at all. We are all taking this hard, but any reason he would take it even harder? I don't know Gonz except on here, but it is a bit concerning.
    You can be a critical fan without being a Critic... Or can you? Quit your b'tchn and enjoy the racing :D

  7. #7
    Insider FTHurley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMFVET View Post
    Still kinda odd he has not been on TF at all. We are all taking this hard, but any reason he would take it even harder? I don't know Gonz except on here, but it is a bit concerning.
    Well, if you've advocated for increased speeds and not letting safety concerns dictate the schedule or the officiating, then Sunday had to be a pretty big blow. I was just hoping Gonzo was coping as well as any of us were. I think we all felt like **** Sunday night. I know it was Wednesday before I got over the shock of it all being real. Hope the G-Muppet's going OK.

  8. #8
    Registered User JMFVET's Avatar
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    Yeah, that is my concern. Hate to be overly concerned but does anyone here have ability to phone him or knock on his door?

  9. #9
    The muppet is just fine..... And hurly your comment about speed v safety is incredible wrong..... Insultingly wrong

  10. #10
    Insider FTHurley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken View Post
    The muppet is just fine..... And hurly your comment about speed v safety is incredible wrong..... Insultingly wrong
    No, it's not. But thanks.

  11. #11
    Paradoxically Sublime Fool Turn13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTHurley View Post
    No, it's not. But thanks.
    I myself was often confused by that, as were many - it was like gonz would say many things several times that definitely gave me the impression that's what he was saying, but if you called him on it outright he would say, "no, that's not what I'm saying"... never did get it resovled in my mind to understand just what he was saying...
    "Each day well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness and every tomorrow a vision of hope. Look well therefore to this one day for it, and it alone, is life"
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  12. #12
    I certainly don't wAnt to speak for the muppet... He's a big boy..

    Here's the thing, or my interpretation of where the muppet stannds..... He accepts the sport is dangerous and that everyti
    The green flies the possibility of the worst happening is very real ..... And that last Sunday it did.... Doesn't mean we/I don't grieve etc..... Just that regardless of steps taken (and they should be taken) the sport is and always be dangerous..

    Contrast that with another friend.... She was sitting next to when Greg died.... She knew Greg, not well but had ties to the 99 team..... She has never been to a race since.... The price is just too high for her, the pain to great..

    We are All different, we will grieve and accept on differt levels....

    But to suggest gonzo has has blood thirst for speed regardless of racer safety is silly .. And insulting to any of us who post on these boards
    Last edited by doitagain; 10-23-2011 at 12:37 PM.

  13. #13
    Insider FTHurley's Avatar
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    I didn't say he has a blood thirst for speed. He did, however, once ask me why I was so worried about safety. That speaks for itself.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by BizzyV View Post
    wanted to hear what Gonzo had to say since I recall him being a proponent of pretty much anything that makes the racing more risquee and death defying. I could be mischaracterizing though
    Yes you are!
    "Try some of these before or after your statements if you are not presenting them as facts. Things like - "In my opinion", or "I think that", JHMO, IMHO, IMO, JMO... Your opinions are not (necessarily) fact. That would clear things up some." - Seadog 03/25/2010 11:40am So the above is JMO.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by lotuspoweredbyford View Post
    Nope. You've pretty much got it.
    Not at all. Danger is an intrinsic dynamic of the sport. I'm a proponent of maintaining that element.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by FTHurley View Post
    Well, if you've advocated for increased speeds and not letting safety concerns dictate the schedule or the officiating, then Sunday had to be a pretty big blow. I was just hoping Gonzo was coping as well as any of us were. I think we all felt like **** Sunday night. I know it was Wednesday before I got over the shock of it all being real. Hope the G-Muppet's going OK.
    Sunday was a big blow for no other reason then I liked Dan.

    I appreciate the concerns show in this thread but I stand by my views I have always had. Racing is a dangerous sport and should and will remain a dangerous sport.

    These cars need to be faster for many reasons.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Turn13 View Post
    I myself was often confused by that, as were many - it was like gonz would say many things several times that definitely gave me the impression that's what he was saying, but if you called him on it outright he would say, "no, that's not what I'm saying"... never did get it resovled in my mind to understand just what he was saying...
    T13, I don't know how to get my point across. It is a very emotional subject. Maybe I don't do a good enough job explaining myself or maybe people are to emotional to understand my point rationally. I will try and equate it to something else.

    If you had a tight rope walker string a rope in downtown New York from one high rise to another, and he attempted to walk from one building to the other, this would be considered a death defying feat. I would watch this with extreme curiosity and intrigue. I do not want to see him fall. I do not wish to see him fall. I would pray he didn't fall. I would cheer him on in hopes of accomplishing the spectacle. I would hold him in high praise and regard for pulling it off.

    Does that make me blood thirsty, yes or no? Seriously, yes or no?

    Now you take that exact same event and add a safety net below him and it is no longer a death defying feat. You have completely lost my interest now and the interest of many.

    Why? It's not because I want to see death, or carnage, or peril, or injury. It's because the net removes the element of risk or danger which originally made it a spectacle. With the net anybody could take up the challenge. Without it only those willing to overcome their fears and conquer and control their emotions would attempt the challenge. It's an intrinsic dynamic of the challenge.

    Motor racing at the highest levels whether you or anybody cares to admit it IS a death defying sport. Danger is an important element. It is a critical part of the sport.

  18. #18
    Registered User JMFVET's Avatar
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    Gonzo, I agree with you on many things and disagree on many others but regardless of that, welcome back Muppet

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by JMFVET View Post
    Gonzo, I agree with you on many things and disagree on many others but regardless of that, welcome back Muppet
    Thanks.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by FTHurley View Post
    I didn't say he has a blood thirst for speed. He did, however, once ask me why I was so worried about safety. That speaks for itself.
    How does that speak for itself? What was the context of the conversation?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMFVET View Post
    Gonzo, I agree with you on many things and disagree on many others but regardless of that, welcome back Muppet
    Yeah, glad you're OK. When I saw the last post time and then didn't hear anything from you, I wanted to make sure you were OK.

  22. #22
    Administrative Fool doitagain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
    If you had a tight rope walker string a rope in downtown New York from one high rise to another, and he attempted to walk from one building to the other, this would be considered a death defying feat. I would watch this with extreme curiosity and intrigue. I do not want to see him fall. I do not wish to see him fall. I would pray he didn't fall. I would cheer him on in hopes of accomplishing the spectacle. I would hold him in high praise and regard for pulling it off.

    Does that make me blood thirsty, yes or no? Seriously, yes or no?
    No.

    Welll, not as long as the tight-rope walker is known to have a reasonable skill in the act, and there are no variables outside of that skill to interfere.

    It's the management of risk, not the risk itself, that's of interest to many of us, but without risk, there's nothing to manage.

    But since it is the management, and not the risk, that's of interest, then unmanageable risk is not the goal. Risk can become simply unmanageable if it is too great, or if it is simply too random.

    Sometimes the carelessness or simple errors of others can be too random to be manageable.
    "The series may be hesitant to say it, but the day is here for everybody that loves IndyCar racing to link arms and help each other out. Anybody who doesn’t want to do that needs to find something else to do with their time.”

    -- Eddie Gossage, President, Texas Motor Speedway, ICONIC Advisory Committee & TrackForum member

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by FTHurley View Post
    Yeah, glad you're OK. When I saw the last post time and then didn't hear anything from you, I wanted to make sure you were OK.
    I appreciate that thanks. I was fine really. Dan's death of course was upsetting.

    I'm an opinionated poster and I'm not afraid to share those opinions. Fellow members respond in very polarizing ways. There was absolutely no good that was going to come from me posting last week. Emotions were high, they probably still are, the only thing I stood to do was further complicate life for the mods in an already difficult situation. I figured the best thing I could do was just stay away.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by doitagain View Post
    No.

    It's the management of risk, not the risk itself, that's of interest to many of us, but without risk, there's nothing to manage.

    But since it is the management, and not the risk, that's of interest, then unmanageable risk is not the goal. Risk can become simply unmanageable if it is too great, or if it is simply too random.

    Sometimes the carelessness or simple errors of others can be too random to be manageable.
    Then we should outlaw racing! Simple. It's to dangerous.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by doitagain View Post
    No.

    It's the management of risk, not the risk itself, that's of interest to many of us, but without risk, there's nothing to manage.

    But since it is the management, and not the risk, that's of interest, then unmanageable risk is not the goal. Risk can become simply unmanageable if it is too great, or if it is simply too random.

    Sometimes the carelessness or simple errors of others can be too random to be manageable.
    This is too thought provoking for this little mind to handle, let me ponder this for a second.....

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by doitagain View Post
    No.

    It's the management of risk, not the risk itself, that's of interest to many of us, but without risk, there's nothing to manage.

    But since it is the management, and not the risk, that's of interest, then unmanageable risk is not the goal. Risk can become simply unmanageable if it is too great, or if it is simply too random.

    Sometimes the carelessness or simple errors of others can be too random to be manageable.
    I guess ultimately, I agree.

    If the risk ever becomes to unmanageable though, that is when you decide not to attempt it. Until drivers stop getting in the cockpit, then there are those that beleive they can manage it.

    It's not Indy Car's place to decide what is and isn't manageable. It's those that choose to compete.

  27. #27
    Insider FTHurley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
    It's not Indy Car's place to decide what is and isn't manageable. It's those that choose to compete.
    It is IndyCar's place, though, to make the risks manageable enough that the best drivers are willing to take them, while not sterilizing the sport so much that they make it uninteresting.

    I'm not saying that's an easy balance to achieve, or that IndyCar has been achieving it. Most of my favorite drivers are racing in other disciplines, which tells me that the cost/benefit ratio in IndyCar is all wrong. A big part of fixing that will be increasing the benefit, but I don't think reducing the cost (in terms of risk) or at least the perception of the cost, can be dismissed out of hand.

    I do fundamentally agree with Gonzo though that racing without any risk would be uninteresting to a lot of people, possibly enough to put it out of business. I'm just trying to avoid the biggest risks. For example, big heavy gearboxes that break backs were a risk. A pointless risk that didn't really improve the show. So they were changed. I would contend that cars getting airborne fall under the same category. But if you remove all the risk ... well, Gonzo's right. That wouldn't be very exciting.

  28. #28
    Insider FTHurley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doitagain View Post
    No.

    Welll, not as long as the tight-rope walker is known to have a reasonable skill in the act, and there are no variables outside of that skill to interfere.

    It's the management of risk, not the risk itself, that's of interest to many of us, but without risk, there's nothing to manage.

    But since it is the management, and not the risk, that's of interest, then unmanageable risk is not the goal. Risk can become simply unmanageable if it is too great, or if it is simply too random.

    Sometimes the carelessness or simple errors of others can be too random to be manageable.
    Substitute bonds based on bad mortgages for a tightrope, and what Gonzo described happened. It wasn't the management of risk for the possibility of gain that was the problem. It was the mischaracterization of great risk as being small that was the problem.

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by FTHurley View Post
    It is IndyCar's place, though, to make the risks manageable enough that the best drivers are willing to take them, while not sterilizing the sport so much that they make it uninteresting.
    It isn't really.....

    It's Indy Car's task to provide enough incentive to lure competitors into thinking it is manageable.

    That is the harsh reality.

    In more simpler words, all Indy Car is responsible for is dangling a carrot. Nothing more nothing less.

  30. #30
    Insider FTHurley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
    It isn't really.....

    It's Indy Car's task to provide enough incentive to lure competitors into thinking it is manageable.

    That is the harsh reality.

    In more simpler words, all Indy Car is responsible for is dangling a carrot. Nothing more nothing less.
    They're responsible for whatever it takes to succeed as a business. Part of succeeding as a business is attracting top competitors. Part of attracting top competitors is provide a risk/reward ratio that is attractive to those competitors.

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