Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 86

Thread: Have Franchitti and Kanaan Gotten Soft?

  1. #1

    Have Franchitti and Kanaan Gotten Soft?

    Have Franchitti and Kanaan gotten soft? Have drivers on a whole gotten soft?

    I've watched, read, listened to countless comments from countless drivers.

    It is very apparent to me that the drivers of the past are handling this tragedy very differently from the younger and current generation.
    "Try some of these before or after your statements if you are not presenting them as facts. Things like - "In my opinion", or "I think that", JHMO, IMHO, IMO, JMO... Your opinions are not (necessarily) fact. That would clear things up some." - Seadog 03/25/2010 11:40am So the above is JMO.

  2. #2
    Sulli from f(x) Hitokiri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    6,406
    Quote Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
    Have Franchitti and Kanaan gotten soft? Have drivers on a whole gotten soft?

    I've watched, read, listened to countless comments from countless drivers.

    It is very apparent to me that the drivers of the past are handling this tragedy very differently from the younger and current generation.
    I don't know if they've gone soft but they are showing that they are human. They've lost their share of friends and co-drivers and have comes closer to death then many of us have. Plus now they're married, have kids, and are probably at the end of their driving careers. I'm sure if you read what TK and Dario said during Moore's death and Wheldon's death it probably sounds the same.
    "The only good horsepower is usable horsepower.."

  3. #3
    Not soft..just more safety conscious. Times have changed since Mario and AJ drove. There’s a greater expectation of safety (as there should be) and the drivers see this as a good opportunity to get their message out. In a related note remember, most of these Indycar drivers want to be F1 drivers but never got a shot to do so, thus it really shouldn’t be that surprising that they will focus a lot of their efforts into making this series a road course series with Indy as the main event. I am not saying that’s right or wrong, only that I believe that is their intention and unfortunately this tragedy helps them make their case.
    I'm gonna wiggle it at 'em, you cheap b@st@rd. Be prepared, because when I yank it out, everybody in that audience except my wife is gonna be runnin' for the exits.

  4. #4
    Insider 11rowsof3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    6,658
    I was in the pits and "involved" when Scott Brayton was killed, that's all I can compare with. It seems like Cheever, Luyendyk, Stewart, etc all took the loss pretty hard - but literally were right back out there running 240mph under the same conditions Scott had been killed. IE, if the car spun and hit the wall at the right angle - the could also die from a head injury like Scott.

    Also, Cheever seemed to take the Stan Fox crash hard, but was also pretty quick to race again seemingly blocking it out.

    I don't think Kanaan or Dario are any more "soft" than AJ or Mario honestly... but it has become more acceptable for men in general to share emotion or feelings. Just the way the world is now. I suspect things like Fox/Brayton/Moore had a huge personal impact on drivers, they just kept things close to the vest and went out and drove again.

    At the end of the day, all drivers including Danica, Ana, etc are "tough" because they know there is a chance they won't be okay at the end of the race. True... the odds aren't as bad as they were in the 50's or 60's... but still... they are very much real.
    Every race I run in is in preparation for the Indianapolis 500. Indy is the most important thing in my life. It is what I live for. - Al Unser Jr.

    Everything I ever wanted in my life, I found inside the walls of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. - Eddie Sachs.

  5. #5
    Insider Snow61's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    3,317
    Quote Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
    Have Franchitti and Kanaan gotten soft? Have drivers on a whole gotten soft?

    I've watched, read, listened to countless comments from countless drivers.

    It is very apparent to me that the drivers of the past are handling this tragedy very differently from the younger and current generation.
    Gotten soft with regards to what? What comments are you referring to? Are you talking about the death of their friend? Are you talking about safety changes? Are you talking about the fact they don't feel it's time to point fingers and lay blame?

    Pretty vague post if you ask me.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Snow61 View Post
    Gotten soft with regards to what? What comments are you referring to? Are you talking about the death of their friend? Are you talking about safety changes? Are you talking about the fact they don't feel it's time to point fingers and lay blame?

    Pretty vague post if you ask me.
    D, all of the above!

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    bradenton, fla
    Posts
    5,686
    Blog Entries
    4
    in no way is wisdom an attribute of softness,
    I love the sport more than I hate the past,

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
    D, all of the above!
    Do I think they've gone soft... no.
    How about you gonzo, do you think they've gone soft?

  9. #9
    Ellis/ IndyCar Dead to Me Swaze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2,174
    Quote Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
    Have Franchitti and Kanaan gotten soft? Have drivers on a whole gotten soft?

    I've watched, read, listened to countless comments from countless drivers.

    It is very apparent to me that the drivers of the past are handling this tragedy very differently from the younger and current generation.


    No Gonzo, they have not gone "Soft". Rather they lost one of their best friends who also just happens to be a newly married father of two very young boys. It's understandable that they would feel terrible.

    Kinda messed up on your part that you would label them "soft" for this.

    The older drivers like Mario and AJ are much more used to death in the sport because they've seen it happen first hand many more times than the younger generation like TK and Dario.

    Furthermore Mario and AJ are not good friends with Dan Wheldon like TK and Dario. It's a little different when the person that dies is someone that you really care about. Not saying that the older drivers don't care about Dan.....but let's face it, Dan means more to Dario and TK than he does to a guy like AJ.
    **** This Sport

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Sunnyvale CA
    Posts
    3,573
    I think it all comes down to $$$.

    The athlete of today is practically secure for life after his first signed paid contract,

    The athlete of yesteryear needed a summer job

  11. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    1,013
    Quote Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
    Have Franchitti and Kanaan gotten soft? Have drivers on a whole gotten soft?

    I've watched, read, listened to countless comments from countless drivers.

    It is very apparent to me that the drivers of the past are handling this tragedy very differently from the younger and current generation.
    I think they are a product of our times. Everyone has gotten soft and politicaly correct. You cant be a rough tough smoke a cigarette, rolled up T-shirt and jeans uniform, banging on the engine with a hammer driver anymore. Its all about image, tweets, and selling your image as a clean cut good guy to the sponsors. Just my opinion but the sport and the fans have all changed. Not saying its a bad thing just a product of the times. Go getem open wheelers.

  12. #12
    Administrative Fool doitagain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    DaveL for IndyCar Czar
    Posts
    27,933
    Quote Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
    Have Franchitti and Kanaan gotten soft? Have drivers on a whole gotten soft?

    I've watched, read, listened to countless comments from countless drivers.

    It is very apparent to me that the drivers of the past are handling this tragedy very differently from the younger and current generation.
    I think that's because the degree and type of risk has changed - it's a different equation now. Especially compared to the rest of the racing world.
    "The series may be hesitant to say it, but the day is here for everybody that loves IndyCar racing to link arms and help each other out. Anybody who doesn’t want to do that needs to find something else to do with their time.”

    -- Eddie Gossage, President, Texas Motor Speedway, ICONIC Advisory Committee & TrackForum member

  13. #13
    Administrative Fool doitagain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    DaveL for IndyCar Czar
    Posts
    27,933
    Quote Originally Posted by paper View Post
    in no way is wisdom an attribute of softness,
    It was a hard rain gonna falll... and it fell.

  14. #14
    Insider FTHurley's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    10,419
    People born during or in the immediate aftermath of a world war have a fundamentally different view of risk and death than people born during a period of relative global peace and prosperity.

    Hay bales around a tree next to the course may have seemed safe to someone because the hay wasn't shooting at them.

    I recently read "One Bullet Away: The Making of a Marine Corps Officer," by Nate Fick (Dartmouth '99, GO GREEN! ), and he describes crouching beside his Humvee with Evan Wright (the reporter who wrote Generation Kill, which is about Fick's platoon) and talking about safety while taking fire. He told Wright that his family and friends would consider crouching beside a Humvee while taking fire to be very dangerous - among the most dangerous things one could do. To him, it felt safe compared to standing in the middle of the road while the fire came in. He was safe where he was, in relative terms.

    Mario Andretti was born just after the onset of World War II, and lived for part of his youth in a refugee camp. That existence is so far removed from anything most of today's drivers have experienced that their risk assessments are at best difficult to compare. For Mario, since the dirt tracks around PA weren't shooting at him and weren't being commandeered by fascists as military assets, they were pretty darn safe. For Dario, not having sufficient run-off room in a corner is an unreasonable risk.

    They're both right.

    So have drivers gotten softer? Yeah.

    And as a way of taking society's temperature, that's probably a good thing, unless one is a fan of massive wars.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by martyrothrules View Post
    Do I think they've gone soft... no.
    How about you gonzo, do you think they've gone soft?
    I think they have. I think there is a definite bravado that is missing amongst the current drivers, especially the veteran ones.

    I have no problem with grown men crying. That isn't what I am talking about. I'm just talking about the general reactions that I have seen since the race.

    I remember a bad crash Villeneuve had one year trying to take Eau Rouge flat out. It was a horrific wreck and destroyed the car. Villeneuve laughed it off and got right back in the car and tried it again.

    I'm not expecting anybody to laugh off the death of Wheldon, but the attitudes from many of the current drivers are not in keeping with the personalities that I associate with a race car driver. Tough, fearless, grizzled, brave, adventurous, courageous, gutsy, valiant, etc.

    Those aren't exactly the words I would be using to describe Kanaan right now.

    I listen to what some of the retired drivers say and the way they carry themselves and I think to myself goddamn, I bet given the opportunity these guys would still hop in a car and try and race it, and conversely I wonder to myself how many of today's drivers will retire over this.

  16. #16
    Reset your fuel,Go Go Go Z28's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Crystal Lake,IL
    Posts
    11,497
    Drivers from generations past lost friends and comrades in on track incidents as they came up through the ranks to get to Indycars and then lost some at that level. They are the ones who began speaking up for safety to remedy how their friends were killed. Speeds weren't as high in the 50's and 60's so crashes didn't kill as many as fire so methanol and fuels cells instead of gasoline and metal tanks. AJ and Mario had friends and teammates they knew for many years die.

    Much of the current driver lineup came up through the road racing ranks, many in Europe, lower formula OW cars aren't as fast as F-1 or Indycars and these guys didn't see very many of their friends and competitors die on the track. For some this might be the first time someone died in a race they were in. Some guys were friends of Greg Moore but like Greg they were in their early 20's and while they were friends they hadn't known him for 10 years like Dan and since that time they've survived what they thought were bad crashes.

    Many of these drivers aren't reacting like some self educated internet racing expert analysts think they should. And what intelligent people know is that the usual suspects over think their mental capacity.
    "You can't arrest those guys, they're folk heroes"
    "They're criminals"
    "Well most folk heroes started out as criminals"

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Swaze View Post
    Kinda messed up on your part that you would label them "soft" for this.

    The older drivers like Mario and AJ are much more used to death in the sport because they've seen it happen first hand many more times than the younger generation like TK and Dario.
    Then you acknowledge that through their past experiences Mario and AJ are a bit tougher.

    Hence my question, are the current drivers a bit soft?

  18. #18
    Insider FTHurley's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    10,419
    Quote Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
    I think they have. I think there is a definite bravado that is missing amongst the current drivers, especially the veteran ones.
    So do you and Tom Brokaw just sit in a bar on the weekends and reminisce?

  19. #19
    Insider Snow61's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    3,317
    Quote Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
    I think they have. I think there is a definite bravado that is missing amongst the current drivers, especially the veteran ones.

    I have no problem with grown men crying. That isn't what I am talking about. I'm just talking about the general reactions that I have seen since the race.

    I remember a bad crash Villeneuve had one year trying to take Eau Rouge flat out. It was a horrific wreck and destroyed the car. Villeneuve laughed it off and got right back in the car and tried it again.

    I'm not expecting anybody to laugh off the death of Wheldon, but the attitudes from many of the current drivers are not in keeping with the personalities that I associate with a race car driver. Tough, fearless, grizzled, brave, adventurous, courageous, gutsy, valiant, etc.

    Those aren't exactly the words I would be using to describe Kanaan right now.

    I listen to what some of the retired drivers say and the way they carry themselves and I think to myself goddamn, I bet given the opportunity these guys would still hop in a car and try and race it, and conversely I wonder to myself how many of today's drivers will retire over this.

    Many of the drivers have experienced a horrific crash; TK, Dario, Conway, Briscoe, Simona, Vitor, Marco......they've all climbed right back in the car just as soon as they could.

  20. #20
    Sulli from f(x) Hitokiri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    6,406
    Quote Originally Posted by Snow61 View Post
    Many of the drivers have experienced a horrific crash; TK, Dario, Conway, Briscoe, Simona, Vitor, Marco......they've all climbed right back in the car just as soon as they could.
    +1

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Snow61 View Post
    Many of the drivers have experienced a horrific crash; TK, Dario, Conway, Briscoe, Simona, Vitor, Marco......they've all climbed right back in the car just as soon as they could.
    Then you think they are as tough as some of the past legends?

  22. #22
    Imagine an event happened that affected your job, your family and your personal life. That's enough to make any man falter. Knowing TK and Dario, they'll bounce back and make a difference in open-wheel racing.

  23. #23
    Is Bat Boy KevMcNJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    South Carolina, USA :10 hours from Indy, 80 minutes from Darlington, & 7 hours from Disney World
    Posts
    21,602
    Theres been a few posters here that Ive come oh so close to putting on my ignore list since last Sunday

    But I dont because I like seeing how they will top their previous posts
    I was racing when racing wasnt cool

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by KevMcNJ View Post
    Theres been a few posters here that Ive come oh so close to putting on my ignore list since last Sunday

    But I dont because I like seeing how they will top their previous posts
    What's the problem?

  25. #25
    Insider sean26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Naperville, Il
    Posts
    1,393
    Quote Originally Posted by rodneyh View Post
    I think it all comes down to $$$.

    The athlete of today is practically secure for life after his first signed paid contract,

    The athlete of yesteryear needed a summer job
    Tony Kannan Raced this year for free...
    "when you no longer go for the gap, you are no longer a racing driver" Ayrton Senna

  26. #26
    Indy/Ovalcentric SactoIndyFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Sacramento, California
    Posts
    4,955
    The thing that really is going to make this hurt for a while is that it happened during the last race of the season. The sport has to stew on the incident for 6 months! That's a tough pill to swallow. Usually it is easier for to get back to work quickly to quell some of the emotions, but this won't be the case this year, new car testing notwithstanding.
    RIP Dan Wheldon :(

    "Anybody who says the IndyCar Series is not the best championship in the world is a complete idiot in my book." ~Dan Wheldon

  27. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    bradenton, fla
    Posts
    5,686
    Blog Entries
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
    I think they have. I think there is a definite bravado that is missing amongst the current drivers, especially the veteran ones.

    I have no problem with grown men crying. That isn't what I am talking about. I'm just talking about the general reactions that I have seen since the race.

    I remember a bad crash Villeneuve had one year trying to take Eau Rouge flat out. It was a horrific wreck and destroyed the car. Villeneuve laughed it off and got right back in the car and tried it again.

    I'm not expecting anybody to laugh off the death of Wheldon, but the attitudes from many of the current drivers are not in keeping with the personalities that I associate with a race car driver. Tough, fearless, grizzled, brave, adventurous, courageous, gutsy, valiant, etc.

    Those aren't exactly the words I would be using to describe Kanaan right now.

    I listen to what some of the retired drivers say and the way they carry themselves and I think to myself goddamn, I bet given the opportunity these guys would still hop in a car and try and race it, and conversely I wonder to myself how many of today's drivers will retire over this.

    bravado missing?? anyone who got in their car in vegas aint missing any bravado,,

  28. #28
    I don't know if they've gotten soft, but they are softer than this:



    I do think that everybody tends to get less reckless as they get older, but it's also a matter of what your expectations are. Ongais raced into his fifties, continuing to compete at Indy for years after that crash.
    My guardian angel, she wears a hard hat.

  29. #29
    Is Bat Boy KevMcNJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    South Carolina, USA :10 hours from Indy, 80 minutes from Darlington, & 7 hours from Disney World
    Posts
    21,602
    Quote Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
    What's the problem?
    Never mind,
    If you have to ask...

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by paper View Post
    bravado missing?? anyone who got in their car in vegas aint missing any bravado,,
    What about those that don't get in the car for the next race?

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •