I'm confused. Someone please tell me the difference between KB's driving style and that of Dale Sr. I just watched (for what seems like the 100th time) a NASCAR special on Sr and his "knock -em-out of the way attitude with everybody laughing and talking about how "that's just Dale." I remember Terry Labonte sliding sideways to the finish at Bristol one year as Dale roared by.
Help me out, please.......
Please visit the tribute to my longtime friend Mel Kenyon
KB's a whole lot more blatant about it. Then afterwards he's mouthy about it. Heck of a talent but he did have the pathway paved for him, whereas Dale sacrificed everything to get there.
I'll see YOU at the races!
A big difference was that Big E initiated a hit to intimidate, whereas Wild Thing does it mostly as retaliation from an on track hit and folks tear him up for that. I don't think I have seen Kyle drive aggressively dirty (such a term?) very much at all. He just feels that he can carry a car anywhere. I like goofy DW's term, "he's 3 wide all by himself!"
He gets it also because people tease him about his looks (though he has filled out a bit recently) and because they never liked Kurt. He's also continuously out-driven Little E since the Hendrick thing and that drives some folks nuts.
Ignorant men marvel at extraordinary things. Intelligent men admire simple things.
Funny thing is I couldnt stand Dale but liked Kyles style up until last Friday because he reminded me of Dale.
It makes no sense I realize.
I do not believe that rubbin' is racing' but understand its a part of NASCAR
The difference between Dale Sr and KyBu is that Senior had self-control when he was rubbin'
Faster than a bullet from a gun
He is faster than everyone
Quicker than the blinking of an eye
Like a flash you could miss him going by
No one knows quite how he does it but it's true they say
He's the master of going faster. -George Harrison
Dale Earnhardt was a self-made 7X Champion. He occasionally would bump someone out of the way. It was more rare than you think actually and rarely a blantant hit like with Waltrip in 1986, Marlin in 1987 or Labonte in 1999 at Bristol. (PS, I love Terry, but he DID bump Earnhardt 1st....)
Kyle Busch has two Top 10 Point finishes in all of his years of racing, is a mouthy, obnoxious **** that has no respect for anyone or anything. Most of his crashes are a blatant attempt to crash someone because he lost his temper and is trying to take them out of the race ON PURPOSE (or tear up their car after the race).
Get it? One is a Champion, respected universally, could hold his own with the best worldwide on any circuit including road courses and short tracks. The other is a kid that needs his azz beaten.
Sorry to be plain-spoken, but that's it in a nutshell for me.
Stuff like this is usually how the best would end a race in the 80's and 90's. I know this is IROC, but Rudd, Earnhardt and Harry Gant. Notice, no one blocks as they come three wide to the checkered? Today - that's a 10 car crash without question off of turn 4. No respect, drivers have never had to fix their own cars, etc.
Every race I run in is in preparation for the Indianapolis 500. Indy is the most important thing in my life. It is what I live for. - Al Unser Jr.
Everything I ever wanted in my life, I found inside the walls of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. - Eddie Sachs.
I may be drifting off into the land of Things Were Way Better When but often times Dale didnt need to jam the grill into the car in front of him.Originally Posted by 11rowsof3
Many times a driver saw him coming and was already convinced he was about to lose that spot.
Hence the nick-name
I did not like the man in black; I did not like his attitude nor his Intimidator moniker.
But Kyle Busch is just a punk. Maybe it's an age thing.
I agree with 11. With Earnhart it was always under green and almost always limited to a little cage rattlin'. I never saw him ram another car under yellow or in the pit after the race. Gotta say I never really liked Earnhart or his tactics either.
Shrub is out there trying to wreck other guys' cars. Already said, but he's a punk. Oh yeah, I'm old, too.
Yep. I wasn't a big fan of his either but there just isn't all that much similar between what he would do and what Kyle did. IMO, a bunch of people who didn't really watch him race that much think Dale was just out there knocking people out of the way on a regular basis.
I've also have enjoyed watching Kyle as the man can really race. But, this was just too much.
Neither did I.
Signed:
Eddie Cheever
Lesson Learned
Welcome to TrackForum - the largest gathering of Self-proclaimed Racing Experts on the intenet!
Well, I didn't see that one so my record is still clean. Still, if that had been Shrub, he would have powered up and followed Cheever and rammed him a couple more times.
The difference? To put it as simply as possible - Dale was almost always in control (of both his car and his emotions). Kyle, on the other hand.....
I'm from a place called the internet. Nothing disturbs me.
"almost always" is correct
Kyles worst offense was turning Hornaday into the outside wall. If he turns Hornaday to the inside, he would likely only get parked for the remainder of the truck race.
#3 was a fairly uneducated red neck, with some really good understanding of racing. That is, someone easier to forgive and someone harder to see losing his cool. "Aw shucks" goes a long way.
Busch is pretty educated and smart and not so in control of his emotions and is easy for many to dislike whatever he does or doesn't do. Many think the smart guy should be cut down to size.
But, the bottom line is effect, not intent, and their effects on others are pretty equal.
Bigggest difference is Busch is racing against a lot better talent (and more of it) than #3 ever did.
Yes and no.
Dale never went sloppping the hogs in an ARCA race on Cup weekends which is about as close a comparison as youre gonna find to what Kyle goes up against in the Truck races.
Im not idolizing the dead here but I think he would have felt somewhat embarrassed to stomp the field in an ARCA race on a Satruday at Talladega
He did run the bigger Busch Series races almost every season but mainly stuck to Cup and IROC for many of those years
I dont know how far back you go but it you pull up the results from any late 80s Cup race you may be surprised at the heavy lumber showing up back then
Its always the in thing to say the competition has never been better but I remember a race at N. Wilkesboro where there was not one DNF.
Dale died having never heard the phrase "Start and Park Team"
The difference with Dale Sr. and the Busch Series (and his very rare ARCA) appearances, was that he was just dabbling in it for the "big" races. He didn't try to run three entire series at the same time. Eventually he stopped all support racing outright.
Dale bumped, rubbed, and nudged every now and then, but as mentioned, it wasn't as often as we remember it.
The incident with Eddie Cheever was interesting, that was the day before he died. But at least he did it in a "harmless" way. He gave him a nudge down the backstretch in a wide open area where Eddie wouldn't hit anything. The funny thing about that one......after the race, Eddie sought out Dale and apologized profusely....Dale gave him a grim and I think gave him a noogie and the whole incident was in the past just like that. He didn't get "mad," he didn't take it personally, didn't run his mouth, he didn't disrespect Eddie, he didn't have hate and revenge in his heart about it.
Hehe...
Except when his buddy Neil Bonnett drove RCR's #31 car at Atlanta in 1993....as a start and parker....to make sure Dale didn't finish last, and thus maximize his points tally for the day...and make it easier to clinch the championship.
I beg to differ with the "uneducated *******" part, but it doesn't deserve comment so I'll leave it alone.
I saw Dale Sr. back when he was running late model sportsman. He ran his own car on his own budget, many times he went to the track having to win the feature just to pay back what he had borrowed for tires. If it took a nudge to stay out of debt, that's what happened and it wasn't uncommon on the short tracks of the day from a lot of drivers. When he came to Cup it was on a low budget entry, he earned his way to the top. That's the difference between he and many of todays hotheaded hotshots.They have had it relatively easy and don't appreciate it.
Yeah, Dale never forgot the short track mentality but as has been pointed out how many cars he "wrecked" is vastly blown out of proportion (like a certain Texan's exploits in Indycars) and like that Texan he did a lot behind the scenes to help others out and never said a word about it.
If many of todays drivers had to come up broke, working on their own stuff and sleeping eight to a room because they could only afford to rent one maybe they'd have a little more respect for others,
"Duty is the most sublime word in our language. Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more, you should never wish to do less" - R.E.Lee
Got it. I wasnt following racing as closely during the mid 90s so I do not remember that even a little bit. I do recall Rick Hendirck entering an extra car at a season finale race too. One of his drivers would clinch as long as they didnt finish dead last. The extra Hendrick car did qualify for the race and went one lap down on lap one. As long as that car was one lap behind the Points leader, he would never finish in last
As soon as there was a genuine DNF that driver was allowed to put his foot to the floor
I forget who the extra driver was now
The selective memory of Dalefan never ceases to amaze me...
If they had one car and two engines and the team would miss the next race if the car got wrecked theyd have a little more manners.
To the new breed, a $200,000 COT is just another bolt on item. If it get broken they give you a new one
True, but the $1M-to-win bonuses that GM paid to RCR/DE paved the way for the kind of budget that ends up with $200K replaceable racecars
If that were still the case, NASCAR wouldn't be on TV.
Just to be clear, I meant "coming up broke" while they were paying their dues on the short tracks before they got to "The Big time". But, when NASCAR started being carried on a weekly basis by ESPN way back when, there were still more than a few drivers who came up the hard way, running their own cars on their own dime. When you come up that way you don't treat cars as weapons or toys to be played with, broken, and discarded because someone will give you a new one.
Mark Martin
Rusty Wallace
Ken Schrader
DW
Terry Labonte
Geoff Bodine
Kulwicki
Ernie Irvan
I could go on and on
Im thinking Kulwicki in particular would not be impressed with the way the current drivers so carelessly ruin a machine that takes thousands of man hours to build. He really did know every nut bolt and fastener on all of his cars. I think he only had 2 cars one season. Remember Sirloin? Something tells me teams dont take the time to name their cars anymore. There was Sirloin, Rusty Wallace had Samson, Someone had a car named Whitney. Now they have glamorous names like 48-837
Were he still alive Id assume Kulwicki would be retired from driving by now and would have someone else behind the wheel of a car
Id be willing to bet AK would be the kind of team owner who would send the driver the repair bill if they pulled the kind of stunts we see today
Richard Petty should be on that list too. Sure he was looked at as the rich King who seemingly had bottomless coffers of money running the biggest business in the state of North Carolina...but that wasn't exactly the case. He had to keep things running, and winning race purses was a big part of that back then. If that meant hiding injuries to stay out on the track, so be it. He said when he broke his neck at Pocono, he had to keep it a secret so he could run Talladega the following weekend. He said he wanted to make sure they made payroll that week.
Yes, General Motors is nostalgic for the times before Toyota arrived in the USA (so is the UAW) but nostalgia doesn't mean much and the old days aren't coming back. Try to see the positives that exist today, especially the fact there are way more than 10 cars with a chance to win every week. That wasn't the case in the bad ol' days. It's probably likely that more sh*t happens when there's more competition.
The bad old days werent as bad as NASCAR likes to make them sound.
I did a little reading here http://racing-reference.info/yeardet/1995/W
In 1980 there was 10 winners and 20 different drivers got a top5
1985- 9 winners 22 drivers got at least one top 5. Also there was only 29 races that year and Bill Elliott won 11 of them
1990 14 winners 24 driver with a top 5 in only 29 races
1995 had 11 winners and 27 drivers with a top 5 in 31 races
2000 14 winners 28 top 5ers in 34 races
2010 17 winners 31 top 5ers in 36 Cup races
Yes theres more winners. But its not as big a gap as the Marketing Machine lets people believe and also theres also more races which of course gives all parties more chances. And Id bet there was typically fewer cautions back then too. No time right now to look into that but its do-able
Biggest difference between Kyle Busch and Dale Earnhardt is age. Dale started his first full season of Winston Cup at age 29. Kyle's first full season started when he was 19.
Dale had a reputation for a reason, but most of it was from his early days. Kyle's just so much younger that his "early days" still need more time to play out.
You can debate who's better and wins and all that stuff. That's part of the fun of being a fan. I would have liked to see them race against each other...and I'd love to know what Dale would say about KB.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks