Product / Promotion

[Turn13]

We often seem to split arguments on what's more important - product, or promotion?

I think they both are, and I suspect we'd all agree, product has to come first.

But what are the finite elements of each, and how important is each one?

Product consists of the drivers (talent), the teams (professionalism), the cars (specifications), tracks (venues), and the on-track action (the rules, as well as how all the other parts come together).

There's also the fan experience, which I think includes "the buzz" among the crowd, the spectacles / traditions, and the access, periphery, and surrounding environment of the venue. And there's how the media portray all of this, which is part of the product, but also part of the promotion.

Let me know if there's something else related to "product" that isn't "promotion".

As for promotion, specifically, there's the basic info: websites, pamphlets, media guides, and PR by the series; there's the TV and radio ads, the print media, the billboards and signage; there's the special deals (from sponsors, etc., including special group activations); there's the sports coverage; and there's the "buzz", again - the word-of-mouth from the public, including the public at large, the consumers, and the hardcore fan base, and the social media.

Anything else?

So, what's most important? What's least? How would you apportion your resources to add up to 100%?

Is there anything that doesn't cost more money per unit ? Anything that doesn't fall within the "better - faster - cheaper" tug-of-war?

[honesty]

We couldn't agree more

Signed,

Research in Motion's product development department.

[Turn13]

Here's a list to paste into your spreadsheet

Product			
	drivers		
		talent	
		personality	
	teams		
	cars		
	tracks		
	action		
		rules	
		composite (all the above)	
	fan experience		
		access	
		buzz	
Promotion			
	news and info		
		sports coverage	
		media guides, pamphlets, pdf's	
		PR - phone, etc.	
		Websites	
	advertising		
		Personal appearances	
		TV & Radio ads	
		Print media ads	
		Billboards	
		Signage	
		Sponsor activation	
	buzz		
		general public discussion	
		fans: word-of-mouth personal endorsement	
		social media

And here's how I ranked them:

Product (82.5% total)						
	drivers					
		talent			30
		personality		3
	teams				2
	cars		        	10
	tracks				7.5
	action				20
		rules				
		composite (all the above)				
	fan experience					
		access			5
		buzz			5
Promotion	(17.5% total)				
	news and info					
		sports coverage	4
		media guides, pamphlets, pdf's	0.25
		PR - phone, etc.	0.25
		Websites				1
	advertising					
		Personal appearances		1
		TV & Radio ads			1
		Print media ads			1
		Billboards			1
		Signage				1
		Sponsor activation		1
	buzz					
		general public discussion	1
		fans: word-of-mouth personal endorsement	3
		social media			2

Something I didn't consider: the impact of calendars and scheduling - is that product, or promotion?

[Turn13]

We couldn't agree more

Signed,

Research in Motion's product development department.

"For every product that failed, we had awesome-looking spreadsheets" - Scott Cook, Founder & CEO, Intuit

[Rommey]

Failing all that:

1. Find some sucker with more money than sense willing to spend untold amounts of money.
2. Find a P.T. Barnum-type that could sell ice cubes to the eskimos to be in charge of marketing.

Seriously,
No matter the product, if no one sees it, then its harder to sell it. When you are competing with several 400-lb. gorillas (Nascar, and to some extent the big 4 sports, especially during their playoffs) and their TV packages (excluding the NHL) you have been relegated to niche status. There are no network weekly shows, and the extra coverage of ICS only occurs during a race weekend (the 500 excluded), so there is virtually zero visibility/coverage of the ICS unless its a crash or worse. Now that the one media created person has gone, there will be even fewer eyes on the ICS.

You have virtually no big corporate involvement outside of Honda and Target (which is only there because of Ganassi, not necessarily the ICS). You have a lot of niche companies "sponsoring" the ICS teams. When Nascar has to have multiple main sponsors, then it cuts down the availability of those sponsors coming to the ICS. Even if the cost of sponsorship in the ICS is a "deal", there is little return on investment. Even the majority Nationwide Series teams are probably sponsored by the niche companies, further complicating the sponsorship pool for the ICS teams. Until you get the big company sponsorship (or at least the perception of) and have those companies help to promote the ICS (even if the ICS has to pay for that cross promotion), then its doomed to be relegated to niche status indefinitely.

[Turn13]

Until you get the big company sponsorship (or at least the perception of) and have those companies help to promote the ICS (even if the ICS has to pay for that cross promotion), then its doomed to be relegated to niche status indefinitely.

Is there a way to get big company sponsorship without increasing popularity first?

If so, then how did it get there in the first place?

[Rommey]

Is there a way to get big company sponsorship without increasing popularity first?

If so, then how did it get there in the first place?

I think the ICS might have to buy that to get it going. I'm not saying its a smart business decision, but it might be a strategic long-term necessity. In this economy, its less likely that companies are going to spend money on a relatively minor sport unless it makes sense for their business.

As for big companies...how about ATT, since they can't participate in Nascar. Why aren't they a big presence in ICS?
How about Apple? Wouldn't it make sense to get these types of companies associated, even if the ICS had to foot the bill? Of course this assumes that Apple wants its name associated with the ICS. But Apple is a relatively hot commodity now and having a perception of involvement could be the kick to get others to sponsor and promote the ICS.

[Turn13]

"having a perception of involvement could be the kick to get others to sponsor and promote the ICS."

- Not sure I get the concept you describe - if you're going to pay for promotion, wouldn't you just appeal directly to consumers?

Why would you pay to put another company's logo on your own promos, and would another company like that idea? Is that done, anywhere? Maybe it is. How much are we talking?

I just don't see Apple agreeing to say they like IndyCar, just for a fee? I guess that's sort of like getting celebrity endorsements? "Product placements"? I'd much rather have endorsements from fans - real ones, sincere ones, for free

Thanks for your thoughts

[don7031]

The product is a televised sporting event. It is the same as offered by the various professional leagues.

99.9% of promotion is the product.

[Z28]

Here's the first insurmountable problem with your boiling it all down. So much of the product is beyond the control of INDYCAR.

The series does not choose the drivers. A few teams hire the drivers they choose, most of which are in conjunction or agreement with a sponsor. Many teams do not have the sponsorship to go out and hire a driver so they must bring in the river who offers them enough money to compete for the maximum amount of the season and that may not be the most talented driver available.

The series has approval over the teams that compete, though they aren't in a position to exclude a team. And any team that wishes to compete has to at least have the resources to gather the equipment and personnel so they have to have some level of professionalism.

The series can set whatever rules they like but what we saw in the old cars and engines and still see in the current 2012 cars companies that supply chassis need to be able to make a profit for their participation. The number of chassis sold each year is limited so to recoup engineering and manufacturing costs all the well known and respected chassis manufacturers wanted exclusivity. So while it would be exciting to have every team bring whatever chassis they liked and a wide variety of looks in the field the companies that manufacture chassis aren't able to make that work.

Every track would like to have another profit making date, everybody loves profits. Every track has a pretty good idea how large a crowd they can hope to attract to an INDYCAR race in their locale and they have an idea of how high or low a ticket price they can reasonably charge. Those things are beyond the control of INDYCAR. When the tracks add in the sanctioning fee, something completely in the control of INDYCAR to the equation they cannot see how to reasonably expect to make a profit. Indycar fans want to blame the tracks for the determining factor that is actually in the hands of INDYCAR.

The on track action is normally the result of several factors. Take the races at Richmond. They were considered good until a gradual change in aero packages resulted in some races called poor. There were several aero changes made to the cars and a race shortly after at Kentucky was called great. Iowa was in the same position, the races were improved after aero package changes were made, the track remained the same. So how INDYCAR reacts to what they see is one key to the on track action.

INDYCAR brings some things to the race weekend experience but so does the venue. But each venue only has so much to work with. At Chicagoland their Champions Park has displays, vendors and attractions. Comparing the INDYCAR and NASCAR weekends, NASCAR had 10 times the amount of space filled. They had that many more sponsor related displays, their broadcast partner had a big stage and display, there were many more not racing related vendors. Much of that was due to a combination of NASCAR having more sponsor activation and drawing many more fans. It's not the fault of the track that vendors don't want to expend the money for a display for the small crowd those vendors know they can expect.

How the media portrays or chooses to cover INDYCAR is the biggest thing beyond the control of the series. In general the media is going to say they give more coverage to the things that more of their viewers or readers show interest in. The alternative is creating some kind of unusual or attention getting show that draws the media. There's a problem in wanting to showcase what your sport has to offer and doing something outside of that just to attract the media into the room.


As to promotion. I believe that's why we were told Randy Bernard was brought in. Of the myriad of things listed in the OP, has Randy done any of those things or really stepped up what had been tried in the past? Not things to serve the existing fans better, like people in the fan club who are already committed, but to expand the number of fans.

[paper]

it always extremely difficult to promote anything that appears less than it what it was ,,

[Turn13]

Here's the first insurmountable problem with your boiling it all down. So much of the product is beyond the control of INDYCAR.

I don't know if it's an insurmountable problem, but it is what it is.

To be clear, I was just "putting out there' what I thought were the main "elements" of the product and the promotion, as we know them. Just so we could maybe achieve some sort of mutual understanding of relative priorities and importance of each "thing".

You and I both zero'd in on the drivers as being the main thing. Not every one may, but that doesn't make them wrong, either - lotta different kinds of people out there, especially among new, previously unexposed future fans.

I agree, and have said it before - there is a sort of dysfunction in the overall system where teams can make short-term, self-serving decisions that ultimately have a negative impact on the longer-term, overall health of the series. That may or may not be "fixable", but the best solution will be to bring the two interests more into alignment, certainly, and with a minimum of coercion or friction (or loss).

Maybe that would mean reducing the current TEAM payments, and recycling the savings through a "driver marketability" subsidy.

The product is a televised sporting event. It is the same as offered by the various professional leagues. 99.9% of promotion is the product.

Yeah, you and I are close I said 82.5% / 17.5%, instead of 99.9% / 0.01%, because I think these days you really can improve the product through effective promotion, because promotion that works means more fans in the stands, which in turn means more revenue for the product - talent, venues, equipment, and so on.

Sometimes, for new fans you not only need to show them, you need to tell 'em what you're gonna show 'em, show 'em, and then tell 'em what you showed 'em. At least the first coupla times. Then they get it.

I'd be interested in what anyone else thinks is the "split", even without going to all the detail I did I'm just one of those guys I realize it's just an approximation of reality, and just from my "regular fan", inexpert perspective.

[Disciple]

The product, when not micromanaged, is great. Always has been. The problem in Indy Car is that regardless of how great the product is, a small group of self serving individuals associated with not only a twice failed legacy series but also many who also earn a living in the racing press (often double dipping) have spent the past sixteen years telling anyone who will listen how badly they believe things stink. That scorching of earth has had sort of a reverse promotional impact.

Therefore, it is my belief that EFFECTIVE promotion of an already worthwhile product is the most important strategy at this juncture. This is necessary for a variety of reasons, including the aforementioned scorched earth, and also because of increased fragmentation of audience and number of entertainment choices as well as the consistent failure of IMS to keep up with the times in terms of promotion outside Indy.

-The Doing What Is Necessary Disciple of INDYCAR

[PenelopePitstop]

EFFECTIVE promotion has not occurred for 16 years in the sport. Profits have followed.

[Spike]

it always extremely difficult to promote anything that appears less than it what it was ,,

And even more difficult to promote something that is much less than it used to be.

[Turn13]

And even more difficult to promote something that is much less than it used to be.

Gotta start somewhere. It's still the fastest, most exciting and popular open wheel racing on ovals, with the history and traditional setting of the Indianapolis 500

What elements of the product would you place at the highest importance, Spike? How would you go about rectifying it to its former stature?

Is there any other recommendation you would make, according to what's most important to you? Do you think that's what's most important to a potential "new" generation of fans?

[gonzo]

No matter how complicated most business seems, you can almost always boil it down to the lemonade stand.

You can be sitting outside your front yard and have the best, most yummyiest thirst quenching lemonade the world has ever known but if the town doesn't know it's for sale you aren't going to sell any.

Conversely, you can have the most horrible, bitter tasting, overpriced lemonade to sell and you could spend millions advertising to your town, you aren't going to sell any!

It always starts with the product. You need to nail down, refine and perfect your product, make sure there is a need, and then you can find ways to advertise that it is for sale.

The product of IndyCar is the collective of what we see infront of us on a Sunday afternoon. Specifically, it's fast cars, with fast drivers, on a variety of tracks or at least that is what it should be. It's those three elements that make up the product and differentiate it from other forms of motorsport.

The product however, like paper pointed out is less than what it once was.

Z28 is right, in that the series has little control of the drivers short of how they choose to expose them. But that has always been the case. It's the case of the NHL, it's the case of the NFL, it's the case of most sports. The Leagues have very little control over the "stars".

What creates the stars are their achievements, and IndyCar can control that! They can control the degree to which that is achieved.

Mears was a hero for what he achieved. Not for how he was marketed. Marketing didn't create the hero, it only made us all aware of it!

That is often lost in today's day and age of Paris Hilton's and Kardasian's!

Somewhere along the line the focus has been lost and people expect that we can just spend gobs and gobs of money shoving something down a customers throat and expect it will catch on or that they will buy it. Somehow if we mention Rahal enough times, or Marco Andretti enough times they will become special. It doesn't work that way, ESPECIALLY in sports.

IndyCar through the years, always progressively went faster and faster. Winning in a machine that few dared to drive made the accomplishment special. They risked their lives, they pushed the boundaries of what a car was capable of doing to win and that made people take notice. Done in the format particular to IndyCar, people were willing to buy.

The amount of money that Marlboro, Imperial Tobacco, Chevy or Ford were willing to spend on it didn't make the product or the accomplishment any better, it only made customers(fans) more aware of it.

Winning today in an IndyCar is nothing special. The cars are slower and the customers know they are slower. The envelope is no longer being pushed like it once was 16 years ago, and because of that the accomplishment is less.

If any of you disagree with that statement explain how winning the Iowa race this year was any more significant than winning the Nazareth race back in the early nineties. You can't because it wasn't significant at all, and that is why people aren't watching.

It's like we've been to the moon a hundred times and on the 101th time we expect people to be as excited as when we landed there the first time. The accomplishment is not near as spectacular/important/significant as it was the first time. We now need to find ways to land on Mars to create the excitement that once existed.

Speed was and always has been the barometer.

I don't care if the record, any record is beaten by a half mile an hour, the new record represents the movement of the yard stick. That yard stick represented by the record is a tangible piece that fans can grasp onto because speed is intangible.

It isn't until that yard stick once again gets pushed that the drivers will once again be special, because it will be at that point that the accomplishment once again becomes significant. With that the equipment they use will become significant also.

Until then we are simply landing on the moon for the 101th time and we are spending millions trying to convince the world that it is as special as the first time we landed.

T13, I don't know how to explain it any different then that. Winning needs to mean something, once it means something, those that win will matter, and when you then expose those winners to customers(fans) they will take interest, latch on and keep buying.

I don't think there is a problem with promotion. With IndyCar I've never felt there was a problem with promotion. I've always felt the problem was with the product. Conversely, when CART/Champ Car was in existence, I always felt they had the product but failed miserably at promoting it. IndyCar has done a relatively good job at promoting. In spite of a diminished product the 500 is still one of the most recognized events in the world, and Danica Patrick has become a household name.

Yes I agree, certain individual events need much better promotion then what they have received over the years, but on a whole, looking at the two pieces of the puzzle, it's not the promotion that is the problem, it is the product and IndyCar has complete and total control over making that better.

And guys, it's the easiest fix in the world...........just make the godd@mn f'ing cars faster then they were 16 years ago even if that is by a half mile an hour!

[Spike]

What elements of the product would you place at the highest importance, Spike? How would you go about rectifying it to its former stature?

Asked and answered - many times over.

[lkchris]

I don't think there is a problem with promotion. With IndyCar I've never felt there was a problem with promotion. I've always felt the problem was with the product.

Agree, but it's for sure a "problem with promotion" when your task is to sell a rich kid from Venezuela sponsored by the national oil company and who doesn't have a lick of talent. That situation is without question "the product" and it is unpromotable to USA racing fans.

Just look at NASCAR and the personalities there. In comparison promotion is easy and is almost automatic. Yes, a little down in this economy, but in comparison Indycar has no chance remaining where it is today. Stick a fork in it.

[gonzo]

Agree, but it's for sure a "problem with promotion" when your task is to sell a rich kid from Venezuela sponsored by the national oil company and who doesn't have a lick of talent. That situation is without question "the product" and it is unpromotable to USA racing fans.

Just look at NASCAR and the personalities there. In comparison promotion is easy and is almost automatic. Yes, a little down in this economy, but in comparison Indycar has no chance remaining where it is today. Stick a fork in it.

You can't compare the two, they are two entirely different products!!!

The reason IndyCar is tasked with selling a rich kid from Venezuela is because its gotten to the point that skill no longer matters and just about anybody with a check can show up and drive because it's easy.

That wouldn't be the case if the cars were faster, skill would once again come to the forefront, winners would be something special and that would be a hell of a lot easier to sell regardless of where you were from.

[lkchris]

You can't compare the two, they are two entirely different products!!!

Ah, but paying race fans compare them and buy tickets to NASCAR events.

As for "if the cars were faster," well that's product isn't it?

[Mindervillain]

Customers - promotion gets 'em, product keeps 'em.

[Chris Paff]

You can't compare the two, they are two entirely different products!!!

Not true, they both are American racing series.. They both pull from the same group of fans whether you want to admit it or not..

Indycar needs to learn from NASCAR and start appealing to the American race fan.. That is what smart businesses do, they learn from their competitors and use that knowledge to make their product better..

[gonzo]

Not true, they both are American racing series.. They both pull from the same group of fans whether you want to admit it or not..

Indycar needs to learn from NASCAR and start appealing to the American race fan.. That is what smart businesses do, they learn from their competitors and use that knowledge to make their product better..

So you agree then that CFL football, NCAA football and NFL football are all the same product!

You will also agree then that Aussie V8 Super cars are the same product as the FIA GT championship!

[Chris Paff]

So you agree then that CFL football, NCAA football and NFL football are all the same product!

You will also agree then that Aussie V8 Super cars are the same product as the FIA GT championship!

Yes, they all pool from the same group of fans and pretty much the same demo's..

[gonzo]

Yes, they all pool from the same group of fans and pretty much the same demo's..

They aren't the same product Chris! They are like products, but they are not the same.

You must also think that tennis, racquet ball and squash are all the same product also.

And if you did, you would be wrong again. Similar products, but not the same products.

See how silly things start to look when you want to stand firm on your belief that NASCAR and Indy Car are the same. Just because they both involve race cars and race tracks doesn't make them the same.

[Fro]

I would think a NASCAR fan is lower-hanging fruit than converting a non-racing fan into an Indycar fan. Especially since a decent number of them in the Midwest are folks who were IndyCar fans at one point.

There's certainly fans out there of other series but they don't have the numbers to really move the needle unless you can find a way to bring a chunk of all of them.

I don't think cranking up the speeds is a silver-bullet. Firstly, it's not a realistic option at this point after Dan's death and secondly I think you'd have to get up to 250 mph to even start getting casual fans talking and that's only if you get the right guy or gal going 250. Are people really going to care about Dixon and Dario going 250? I think they'll still be bored with those two black holes of personality around.

The crux of the problem with IndyCar is the star-making machine got shut off during the split, which happened to be right after AJ, Mario, Mears, etc all retired in a short stretch of time.

I think the only answer is to go outside the box on your promotion and tie that into how you develop your up-and-coming drivers (your product).

[Chris Paff]

The crux of the problem with IndyCar is the star-making machine got shut off during the split, which happened to be right after AJ, Mario, Mears, etc all retired in a short stretch of time.

Indycar was not really making stars before the split either.. Outside of Michael Andretti & Al Unser Jr who had built in fanbases due to their last name.. Who else? Rahal or Sullivan?

[gonzo]

I would think a NASCAR fan is lower-hanging fruit than converting a non-racing fan into an Indycar fan. Especially since a decent number of them in the Midwest are folks who were IndyCar fans at one point.

I agree and a great many of them are previous Indy Car fans and the evolving demographics for NASCAR over the years supports that.

There's certainly fans out there of other series but they don't have the numbers to really move the needle unless you can find a way to bring a chunk of all of them.

I agree but just as Indy Car fans gravitated to NASCAR they also gravitated to other forms, ALMS is a good example. The previous fan base just didn't up and quit following motorsports all together, they found new outlets. It's the collective that are the low hanging fruit.

I don't think cranking up the speeds is a silver-bullet.

I don't think it is a silver bullet either but I do think it is at the core of turning things around.

Firstly, it's not a realistic option at this point after Dan's death

I disagree, I think it is only not a realistic option because those in charge prevent it. At the end of the day the only thing preventing these cars from going faster is one man (or old lady) saying we need to go faster.

and secondly I think you'd have to get up to 250 mph to even start getting casual fans talking and that's only if you get the right guy or gal going 250.

Then we need to go 250! It's an arbitrary number but a number you thought about before typing it out and you came to the conclusion that a fast enough number would move the needle. That's proof to my argument. Will it attract hordes of fans? No, not at first, but it will start moving the needle and moving the needle is a good thing. It snowballs and gains steam from there.

Are people really going to care about Dixon and Dario going 250? I think they'll still be bored with those two black holes of personality around.

I agree, boring people going 250 is not going to be as exciting as more personable people going 250, but at least winning once again becomes recognized as an accomplishment. It's gotta be, because you just said people will take notice at 250. What are they taking notice of? The speed, the danger, the bravado, the risk, all those things makes them say damn, 250 is crazy, so therefore winning at 250 must mean something.

The crux of the problem with IndyCar is the star-making machine got shut off during the split, which happened to be right after AJ, Mario, Mears, etc all retired in a short stretch of time.

What exactly was that star making machine......what has changed Fro? That's right, the speeds! The accomplishment. The accomplishment was weakened over the last 16 years because the accomplishment wasn't as great, in part because the talent was depleted, in part because it was a spec series, in part because of a whole bunch of other things, but in great part because the speeds were stunted and reduced.

I think the only answer is to go outside the box on your promotion and tie that into how you develop your up-and-coming drivers (your product).

They have been doing that. Danica is a household name! You can't market nobodies. You need to create somebodies first and then market those somebodies.

Izod plastered Ryan Hunter Reay all over the place. The fame did not follow because they were marketing a nobody instead of marketing a somebody. You create those somebodies by making their accomplishments worthwhile. There is nothing worthwhile about their current accomplishment. Return an element of speed, you improve the product, the bi-product is a more significant accomplishment, your star making machine returns and you then market them which is a fancy word for exposing, and ideally new and current fans latch on.

[FTHurley]

You can't compare the two, they are two entirely different products!!!

I don't think the public sees the products as being as different as you do.