They don't need to, they just need to know what they like.Originally Posted by FTHurley
They don't need to, they just need to know what they like.
"Try some of these before or after your statements if you are not presenting them as facts. Things like - "In my opinion", or "I think that", JHMO, IMHO, IMO, JMO... Your opinions are not (necessarily) fact. That would clear things up some." - Seadog 03/25/2010 11:40am So the above is JMO.
Auto racing is Auto racing..
Yup, for most people that's probably true.
It's why there's a chance that no combination of product and promotion will actually help, if it can't differentiate IndyCar from the hundred-odd other big time races on TV each year.
Does anyone remember what Spike's answer was?
I think you said something about opening up the specs. And maybe replacing the management
The purpose of the thread was just to list the elements of product and promotion, and assign them a priority, if anyone still had energy left after the listing
"Each day well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness and every tomorrow a vision of hope. Look well therefore to this one day for it, and it alone, is life"
~ Sanskrit poem attributed to Kalidasa, "Salutation to the Dawn"
Brian's Wish
I guess music is music, too, to some people.
What is it about IndyCar that a NASCAR fan would like (in, say, a perfect world
Wow. The racing line is the racing line, auto racing is auto racing, and music is music.
Why is everybody so confused?
I'm in the camp that feels speed is essential. I placed "cars" and "on track action" as being among the highest priority elements of the product. I think that lends itself to promotion: "the fastest cars on ovals". The annual search for speed needs to be ongoing, even if it is redefined by smaller, lighter engines from time to time, IMO....just make the godd@mn f'ing cars faster then they were 16 years ago even if that is by a half mile an hour!
I thought that old CART "Faster" commercial was pretty good - too bad it came during the Split
I think even more importantly, the speed quest becomes part of the personal endorsement, fan to fan, fan to newbie. It used to be a big part of the buzz. Somewhere we let NASCAR redefine that - even if some of their promotion still carries the false impression that they are somehow amazingly fast, in the child-like commercials, etc. They're not. But now that's become a chip on some shoulders here, as if it shouldn't matter.
It always did. Go back and watch all the movies Mother Duck shows every week. It was the constant theme.
And it can be updated. Smaller, lighter. Fits with today's limitations and sensibilities. But it needs to be communicated and shared in a way that's understood and appreciated by new folks.
Prepare screen footage superimposing an IndyCar and a stock car at speed on the same tracks, the same streets, the same roads. Visually demonstrate what fast really is. And work on the cameras, the way they pan and crop the live footage. Emphasize the speed. The athleticism. Faster. I know it. You know it
Last edited by Turn13; 01-05-2012 at 10:26 PM.
Thanks, not much more to say to Chris on that!
He just doesn't get it. According to him Motley Crue offers the same product as Toby Keith.
They're both music, $&@" sure, I guess he also thinks all food is the same product also, McDonalds or a fine dining restaurant, sure, same product isn't it Chris??? Crappy fried egg and sausage breakfast at Denny's or a nice steak dinner at Ruth's Chris. All the same product isn't it Chris. Racing is racing.
I dont even know what to say....best to just bite my tongue and understand that Chris doesn't know what the hell he is talking about.
Hey knucklehead, if racing is racing, then shouldn't racing drivers just be racing drivers? Kinda F's with your theory that we need more Americans now doesn't it? Think about it.
T13, lots to chew on in your post, I'll hit it later when I have a full size keyboard.
If 'more' speed was the answer Cup would be out of business...
Sovereignty of God vs. free will of man anyone?
43 -- Joe Gosek -- ALTA Team Scandia -- Lola/Ford
It's a different freaking product. Speed is not part of the dynamic or essence of what NASCAR is. NASCAR isn't defined by speed, Indy Car is!!!
It's like somebody over on the NASCAR boards trying to get their point across that one of the core defining traits of the NASCAR product is that they use stock cars (or at least used to), and somebody quipping no it isn't , if that was the answer Indy Car would be out of business.
No it isn't...
Yes, its why 75% of the season in 2012 will be "defined" by races with average speeds of under 120 MPH.
If Indy Car actually is defined by "speed", they better get a new dictionary.
Prime Minister of Gackland
You find them to be radically different products. That's great for you. For most people, they're both cars going fast in a circle (yeah, yeah, road courses aren't circles, I know).
The auto racing marketplace in America is saturated, and no matter how much you want to claim that IndyCar is substantively a different product, it's still auto racing. RC Cola doesn't taste like Coke (Sprint Cup) and it doesn't taste like Pepsi (Nationwide). It's a totally different product. But it's still (for most cola shoppers) trying to scratch the same itch that Coke and Pepsi are already successfully scratching.
Right now, there is only one IndyCar event each year with the muscle in the market to break through that saturation and stand out: the Indy 500. Getting the others anywhere close to that level won't take tweaking, or even major changes. It will require a failure or significant slide by a competitor.
"Right now, there is only one IndyCar event each year with the muscle in the market to break through that saturation and stand out: the Indy 500. Getting the others anywhere close to that level won't take tweaking, or even major changes. It will require a failure or significant slide by a competitor."
Yep...IndyCar goes to Indy...NASCAR says, 'yeah, we do Daytona but the baddest SOB's in the bidness also go other places'...for decades NASCAR has out performed IndyCar in the promo area...I see nothing in the future to change that...
I agree one hundred percent. And they are symbiotic (is that the right word?). With more speed track action becomes more dramatic.
I've always been of the opinion that I don't care what the cars look like, what they sound like, how the power is produced, provided they are fast, that is the cornerstone to which you build. Now sure, an aesthetically pleasing car is certainly beneficial but speed comes first. There have been many many ugly cars through the years, certainly much uglier tha the current Dallara, but that never prevented people from enjoying or following the series because as you mentioned, the "quest" for speed was a continuing evolution and if a hideously looking car was part of that journey it only made the evolution of speed that much more intriguing. It plays with our imaginations and is what builds those emotional connections.
We can all whine and complain about the importance of what these cars look like and what these cars sound like, I guarendamntee everybody that a pack of 33 cars powered by electric engines traveling at 300 mph around the speedway and the ability to accelerate from 0-100mph in 3 seconds will mesmerize everybody on this board regradless of what they look like or sound like!!!
That old campaign was brilliant and exactly the direction CART needed to be taking at the time and one that Indy Car should now follow. It's about differentiating Indy Car drivers not only from other forms of motorsport but also all the other sports. If hitting a 100mph baseball is something special, hitting your breaking points from 200mph consistently lap after lap should be even more special. There is so much to build from that gets ignored. The intricacies of the sport, time, reflexes, consistency, these all get forgotten and that commercial/campaign was simply the beginning of trying to bring that to the forefront. It was fantastic and exciting to see at the time. Instead, Indy Car got a new chant from Gene Simmons.I thought that old CART "Faster" commercial was pretty good - too bad it came during the Split
I agree, it was a driving force. It used to be something special, but when we can watch James May take a production car albeit an exotic ridiculously expensive one, but still one that in the right part of town you could pull up alongside at a stop light, drive around a track at 253mph, suddenly so called state of the art thoroughbred racing machines aren't so special any longer.
Lets' face it, over the years we have been conditioned, and two points of measure have been engrained in us when it comes to cars, cars of any sort, and its a point of reference to which we measure everything against, care to take a guess:
TOP SPEED
0-60
And those two elements are both at the essence of what Indy Car is or at least was and what it should be once again.
Cars that were faster than any other! Yes, there is Bonneville, yes, there are dragsters, but these guys don't connect the same way because they can't turn at those speeds, Indy Car drivers can, and that is why it was so intriguing to see them on city streets. There were some real world comparisons to be made and when made the differences were mesmerizing, the were captivating, and we connected emotionally.
All that has been lost and its been lost because the speed is no longer there.
There was a time when NASCAR was considered slow. When you took top speed, when you took 0-60, against Indy Car it lost badly each and every time. But like you said, NASCAR found a way to redefine it. I'm not sure how exactly they did, if they even did, or if years of CART/CHAMPCAR fans calling IRL cars crapwagons and slow pigs and 16 years of slower cars did it to ourselves.
Regardless of how it happened, an Indy Car is no longer thought of as the thoroughbred that it once was.
Top speed and 0-60 is still to this day engrained in us as performance measures when it comes to cars. While I agree that efficiency is a hot topic within society right now, I don't think it should be a driving force. You can't be all things to all people. If Indy Car can produce a more efficient engine, I think that is great and should be promoted, but that isn't in my opinion what puts somebody in a seat, its how much more power that new lighter engine produces in the quest for speed that matters.
Great idea, and I proposed something similar years ago which was for the Speedway to buy their own stock car and put together a series of videos showing the significant differences between the two cars and how much faster an Indy Car was by doing the same things you just listed.Prepare screen footage superimposing an IndyCar and a stock car at speed on the same tracks, the same streets, the same roads. Visually demonstrate what fast really is. And work on the cameras, the way they pan and crop the live footage. Emphasize the speed. The athleticism. Faster. I know it. You know it
I don't have the math in front of me but I had worked it out and there was about a six second a lap difference (50mph) between Indy Car and NASCAR at Phoenix. Ya, I know!!! Which meant about every four laps Indy Car would be lapping NASCAR. Do the math.......in a 200 lap race, the stock car would finish about 50 laps down! Staggering, and when you think about it........really pathetic.
You don't need to try and sell yourself as better than NASCAR, they are two different things, you just need to bring speed back to the forefront and you can do that quite easily by comparing yourself to something everybody knows, NASCAR.
Or, maybe we just need more Americans!
Yeeeee haaaaaaaaa
The-General-Lee-550x302.jpg
Sorry but 185mph is still fast.. big deal Indycars go 225.. Both are fast..
Sometimes. And other times it becomes a really fast, stretched out parade. Especially if the cars are really aero dependant.With more speed track action becomes more dramatic.
No you are wrong, you are defining "most people" as general public. There is an entire F1 fan base to the tune of billions that know the difference between NASCAR and F1!!! Likewise a massive fan base of NASCAR fans that know the difference between their sport and F1.
They are radically different and the fan bases of each prove that.
Yep, and tennis(ATP) is different than squash(PSA) is different than raquetball(IRT) is different that badminton(???), but they are all raquet sports, but they are each very different products being offered. Do you agree or disagree?
I agree the 500 is the muscle but I disagree entirely that one needs to fail for Indy Car to prosper.
What would a NASCAR fan be looking for in IndyCar, that they can't get more and better of right where they are?
Maybe IndyCar is almost out of business because NASCAR was just a better promoter (Win$ton's Billion$) for long enough to get the edge in popularity and thus talent. Plus the split and all
Hey Paff, who did you like better, Beaux or Luke?
What, then, would the NASCAR base that you propose to court be looking for from IndyCar?
1. Probably nothing...What would a NASCAR fan be looking for in IndyCar, that they can't get more and better of right where they are?
Maybe IndyCar is almost out of business because NASCAR was just a better promoter (Win$ton's Billion$) for long enough to get the edge in popularity and thus talent. Plus the split and all
2. I think I already addressed the promo issue...
"Yep...IndyCar goes to Indy...NASCAR says, 'yeah, we do Daytona but the baddest SOB's in the bidness also go other places'...for decades NASCAR has out performed IndyCar in the promo area...I see nothing in the future to change that...
You're missing the point. Those are all raquet sports, sure. How many of them can manage to maintain a successful TV presence and mindshare among sports fans? One. The NASCAR of raquet sports, tennis. And nothing squash can do will manage to do more than carve out a barely-staying-alive niche, especially if the raquets are ridiculously expensive.
And of course I'm defining "most people" as the general public. That's what "most people" means. You think IndyCar should limit itself to a smaller niche of the sports-watching public?
If they're into fast cars, yes... but how many of their fanbase are the housewives with the Jimmy and Jeffy bumper stickers, clogging the parking lot with Monte Carlos at the Piggly Wiggly, who are first and foremost just fans of the culture, the gossip, the tailgating, and the tattoos?
Ooh, a ******* joke! Nice! Do us a favor and post your resume so we can take shots at it.
And the answer is obviously Daisy.
EDIT: Wait, "red neck" is bleeped? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot??
Chris says they're the best target... low-hanging fruit... is that not the case?
"I don't have the math in front of me but I had worked it out and there was about a six second a lap difference (50mph) between Indy Car and NASCAR at Phoenix. Ya, I know!!! Which meant about every four laps Indy Car would be lapping NASCAR. Do the math.......in a 200 lap race, the stock car would finish about 50 laps down! Staggering, and when you think about it........really pathetic."
And that would be meaningful if both IndyCars and Cup cars went head to head at Phoenix...but, they don't...
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