"Try some of these before or after your statements if you are not presenting them as facts. Things like - "In my opinion", or "I think that", JHMO, IMHO, IMO, JMO... Your opinions are not (necessarily) fact. That would clear things up some." - Seadog 03/25/2010 11:40am So the above is JMO.
And, check back when Al Unser won his national championships. Pretty much Indy was the only big track they raced on and for sure some of the "indycar" races were on dirt.
No, I think the only "essence" of indycar racing you can successfully reference is American drivers. Big Al wasn't racing Brazilians on American dirt back in the day when the "essence" was established. Sure, you can say that isn't how indycar is today but in saying that you've described the problem.
Sounds like time for a poll
"The series may be hesitant to say it, but the day is here for everybody that loves IndyCar racing to link arms and help each other out. Anybody who doesn’t want to do that needs to find something else to do with their time.”
-- Eddie Gossage, President, Texas Motor Speedway, ICONIC Advisory Committee & TrackForum member
I say speed matters and you think I'm talking about standing there with a radar gun. I'm not.
It's all intangibles. Its visceral experiences. Its the surreal.
Poll any fan and you likely wouldn't get speed as the reason to watch. Get the cars doing 300 mph and the stands would be packed and the atmosphere electric. Dial them back to 200 mph and nobody would want to watch or care.
Speed matters. Are you going to suggest it doesn't matter ilkris? I'm talking INdy Car here, no other series, just Indy Car, does speed matter in Indy Car or does it not matter? Cause you are sitting here trying to convince me that it doesn't matter.
For example if you asked a question like what is more important, how fast the cars go, what the cars look like or what the cars sound like, I don't know that speed would win out in that poll.
But ask a question like, what excites you more, watching an Indy Car at full song, or watching an Indy Car on a cool down lap is going to give you a very different picture and better illustrate the point I am trying to make.
Speed excites. ilkchris seems to disagree, but that isn't surprising cause ilkchris makes it a point to disagree with the muppet. So be it, I've come to learn that speed just doesn't matter to ilkchris.
Most people react to the noise more than anything and noisy means fast. I've seen both NASCAR and Indycar at Texas Motor Speedway and think most are like me in thinking we don't much see the speed difference. We can read about it of course, that's that's just techno-nerd stuff.
Here's what I think's most important to the average fan. At last summer's snoozefest indycar race at TMS, about the only thing I could continuously see was the electric-green go-daddy car. The rest was just a couple clumps of indistinguishable cars and nobody ever passed for the lead. Simona and Davey going by every few seconds nose-to-tail wasn't real exciting although it's nice Davey was back.
No, I think the average fan at TMS is going to think the NASCAR cars are faster because ...
there are more of them
they are bigger
they are noiser
IIRC correctly, lap times/speeds aren't posted regularly anyway. It's just simply not a tech exercise for racing nerds--it's a show. It's great to be a racing junkie, but nobody in the racing business is looking to you as a sponsorship target because you're a REALLY small minority.
Its about DRIVERS. Always has been and always will be. And the top stock car series far and away has got more of the types of drivers you can get folks in this country to care about and watch on TV or in person. Whether they are going 190 MPH at Texas or 225 MPH at Texas.
One day, the folks in the IC world will figure this out....maybe.
Prime Minister of Gackland
"Its about DRIVERS. Always has been and always will be. And the top stock car series far and away has got more of the types of drivers you can get folks in this country to care about and watch on TV or in person. Whether they are going 190 MPH at Texas or 225 MPH at Texas."
So what 'type' of driver would assist the IC series in popularity...
What does it take to attract and retain talent (American or not)?
You can curse the darkness, or you can light a candle.
"Each day well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness and every tomorrow a vision of hope. Look well therefore to this one day for it, and it alone, is life"
~ Sanskrit poem attributed to Kalidasa, "Salutation to the Dawn"
How do explain The Beatles, The Who, AC/DC, The Rolling Stones, U2, Led Zeppelin, and Pink Floyd being among the best selling rock bands of all time?
How do explain the Toyota Camry, Nissan Altima, Toyota Corrolla, Honda Civic, Honda Accord, Hyundai Sonata and Toyota Prius all outselling the best selling American passenger car in December 2011?
How do you explain that the top grossing movie in 2011 had zero to do with the USA or Americans?
I ranked talent most important, and I always have:
What works to attract and retain American talent is what works everywhere, always has, and is in fact the only thing that does: popularity.Code:Product (82.5% total) drivers talent 30 personality 3 teams 2 cars 10 tracks 7.5 action 20 rules composite (all the above) fan experience access 5 buzz 5 Promotion (17.5% total) news and info sports coverage 4 media guides, pamphlets, pdf's 0.25 PR - phone, etc. 0.25 Websites 1 advertising Personal appearances 1 TV & Radio ads 1 Print media ads 1 Billboards 1 Signage 1 Sponsor activation 1 buzz general public discussion 1 fans: word-of-mouth personal endorsement 3 social media 2
You either help light the candle with new fan encouragement, or continue to help keep it dark with the bitching.
It's maybe 5% of the overall picture, but it's 95% of what we do here
Word of mouth endorsements are the most powerful form of promotion. Bitching and whining irrationally is about the worst thing fans can do to increase popuarity.
It's not like the powers that be (aka poo bahs) don't know - they have much more info than we do, and much more riding on the outcome.
Last edited by Turn13; 01-14-2012 at 10:43 AM.
Those 4 get signed to a "Red Bull Scholarship"-type deal that fully funds their racing up to the big cars and as a condition they sign a 10-year no-compete agreement (that takes effect once they debut in the big cars) that bans them from competiting in NASCAR races without permission from IndyCar.
How does that all get paid for? Still working on nailing that part down but the nature of the competition should lead to a lot of sponsors being interested in helping fund these drivers.
I'm attending just such a shootout right now, but it won't be on TV until April, on CBS. That's what the sponsors think, based on the sub-20K crowds (75K for five-days)and sub 0.9 ratings.
It's always all pretty straight-forward except for the part about paying for it
It can ONLY be paid for by popular demand. Neither KK nor TG nor RP nor CG - or anybody, anything - has that kind of payola anymore.
Get any American driver in a top car and have him win races and titles and he/she will be more popular then Franchitti, Dixon, Kanaan, Power, etc..
Proably true, Chris.
The second paragraph, anyway
So we really don't know what 'type' of driver is needed to gain the popularity of Cup...BTW: I seriously doubt if what goes on in thee forums has any noticeable effect on the general public and it's attitude towards racing...just a guess...
And you are right that to the majority of the mass population, what's said here doesn't effect anything one-iota.
However what you say to friends & relatives can play a small part. If the attitude reflected by some here are how they really talk and act to friends & relatives about a certain subject, there's an impact.
People will listen to those they know & respect and hear what they say. And if one is continually casting a negative light on something, many will assume that attitude without knowing or seeing for themselves first-hand. And then they may tell others what was said to them and then you get a trickle-effect....just sayin'.
I'm not suggesting that the malcontents are responsible for the shape IndyCar is in, not by a long-shot. Unquestionably though by routinely knocking something they're doing nothing to really help it either.
Constructive criticism is good. There's plenty wrong with the series. Some of what you say has merit. I can agree with you on many things but your delivery and realistic rational expectations needs polishing. However a lot of what you say is hyperbole and just belly-aching...and you say it almost daily.
My first Indy 500 was 1973, haven't missed one since 1981. To date I have attended 35 Indy 500's, and probably 100 or so other IndyCar races (CART & IRL).
There was no reason why I was banned from the Indycar forum today.. I was stating facts.. I did not bash anyone or anything.. I was stating my opinion based on facts..
Trust me I am a fan just frustrated.. Hell I am listening to the Talk of Gasoline Alley as I type this..
Keep dreaming Chris. The IRL itself, the entire premise is what you long for yet it failed. Your theories are proven wrong time and again.
Sam Hornish fits my example and he was more popular then Kanaan is currently when Hornish was in the IRL..
But you are absolutely right, speed doesn't matter.
Superspeedways play absolutely zero significance in the popularity or mystique of the sport. You are 100% right.
Lets just do away with Indy Cars all together, its gotten far to fast, dangerous and costly. Lets just take Indy Lights fill the seats full of American drivers and all the problems will be solved cause speed has nothing to do with things. You are so right Gack.
Why don't you talk about F1? Why is it always NASCAR as the comparison with you?
You could take Jimmie Johnson, put him in an Indy Car and watch him win and his popularity would shrink because winning in an Indy Car right now means nothing.
Indy Car used to generate its own stars.