News flash Chris.......the IRL failed! It failed miserably.Originally Posted by Chris Paff
News flash Chris.......the IRL failed! It failed miserably.
"Try some of these before or after your statements if you are not presenting them as facts. Things like - "In my opinion", or "I think that", JHMO, IMHO, IMO, JMO... Your opinions are not (necessarily) fact. That would clear things up some." - Seadog 03/25/2010 11:40am So the above is JMO.
"Why don't you talk about F1? Why is it always NASCAR as the comparison with you?"
Why not...NASCAR is the major American series...there is a lengthy NASCAR bash on the IC forum telling the world how slow Cup cars are and how fast IndyCars are...if speed was the deciding factor NASCAR wouldn't exist...
And exactly how well off is the current AOW series...the one with the CART/CC leadership/ownership...what both sides of this ongoing pissing contest eminating from the split fails to recognize is this...the American sports fan, generally speaking, no longer cares about formula open wheel racing in this country...and all the brick throwing at the other side ain't gonna change that fact...IMS is mostly an event, not unlike the Derby...in the past 15 yrs AOW has had one, count 'em, one individual who scratched the surface of popularity and face recognition in the general populace...she's gone...
Speed is important within Indy Car, you are the one trying to make it a comparison between the two. This has nothing to do with any other series. Speed is important to the makeup of what Indy Car is. It isn't as important an element in NASCAR. Racing so called stock equipment is what is important to the makeup of NASCAR.
What makes NASCAR popular is not what makes Indy Car popular and vice versa. They have different elements that makes each of them popular in their own regard.
Who cares dolan, Chris thinks the answer is American drivers, the IRL was full of American drivers and it didn't work!!! If you want to make it about splitsville, knock yourself out.
Randy would love to have the attendance the IRL had at many events..
So would USAC or any other non-NASCAR series.
"Each day well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness and every tomorrow a vision of hope. Look well therefore to this one day for it, and it alone, is life"
~ Sanskrit poem attributed to Kalidasa, "Salutation to the Dawn"
Brian's Wish
He'd likely like to have attendance circa 1994 even more.
Haha!
...and fans, sponsors, television ratings and worldwide recognition, interest & respect, circa 1994. Not to mention having the series financially successful & standing on it's own and not dependent on one race or checkbook...circa 1994.
My first Indy 500 was 1973, haven't missed one since 1981. To date I have attended 35 Indy 500's, and probably 100 or so other IndyCar races (CART & IRL).
That's why you need to generate a whole group of stars at once to jumpstart the whole thing.
That's what the UFC did with the Ultimate Fighter. They brought in a whole group of guys and built a reality show around them and had two of their existing stars coach the teams (which made them even bigger stars). They were smart enough to get the show on in cushy timeslot with a lead-in from a large, compatible audience (WWE Raw).
About 6-7 of those guys from the original show are still some of the most popular guys in the UFC. There have been several who have gotten title shots and one (Forest Griffin) was UFC Light-Heavyweight Champion.
What I've been brainstorming on is how to do the same thing with IndyCar. If you can get a whole group from the show up to the big cars and put your thumb on the scale a bit to make sure that at least a couple are very successful, then you're in business.
No doubt.
"I think of Indianapolis every day of the year, every
hour of the day, and when I sleep, too. Everything I
ever wanted in my life, I found inside the walls of
the Indianapolis Motor Speedway."
- Eddie Sachs.
...and fans, sponsors, television ratings and worldwide recognition, interest & respect, circa 1994. Not to mention having the series financially successful & standing on it's own and not dependent on one race or checkbook...circa 1994.
Not to mention a series strong enough that the 1992 WORLD CHAMPION saw enough to leave F1 for.
Not totally accurate. Mansell was using CART as leverage and was caught off guard when his bluff didn't work and Williams let him leave.
You've got zip to prove these claims.
Since this is the business forum let's list again who has sponsorship.
En help me out: Why have Buddy Lazier, Buddy Rice, Eddie Cheever, Sam Hornish, Marco Andretti, and Graham Rahal (among others) failed to generate any popularity or profile for the series? To the vast majority of sports fans, they are completely unknown. And if you checked their passports . . .
...or better yet, the Swindells, the Kinsers, JJ Yeley, Bryan Clauson, Dave Darland, et al... and I like those guys.
They have a strong following and lucrative deals, but their all-oval, all-American, coast to coast series doesn't get more ratings on TV or a place in mainstream media.
Must be something else that put NASCAR where it is.. hmm..
See my Sig...
"The series may be hesitant to say it, but the day is here for everybody that loves IndyCar racing to link arms and help each other out. Anybody who doesn’t want to do that needs to find something else to do with their time.”
-- Eddie Gossage, President, Texas Motor Speedway, ICONIC Advisory Committee & TrackForum member
And the same tobacco regulations from 1994 too.
Prime Minister of Gackland
Just a reminder, the topic was Product vs. Promotion, and what IndyCar could do within each category to be more popular
Sometimes people forget, it seems, and just want to get into us-vs-them pissing matches. Must be satisfying, but I sure don't get it
If you're going to talk about promotion and product, why ignore the other aspects of marketing?
Be our guest, go right ahead and expound on that.
Thanks!
id rather be living in indy or long beach instead of charlotte, NC as there hasn't been an indycar race here since 1999
I still stand by what I said in post #17.
I will add that the addition of Beaux Barfield has opened the way to improving the product.
I agree with much of post #17, but not the last sentence. Just gong .5mph faster isn't an accomplishment that will regain fan interest. Not if it isn't an earned half mph that is truly an engineering and driving feat. Nor will it be sustainable if there isn't opportunity for evolution to once again one-up the record each year.
Beau Barfield's impact on the product is minimal. He can't even manage to shorten the cautions significantly. His impact is on minimal race details, and that's about it.
He certainly can't impact the business strategy makes puts popularity and prestige secondary to cost cutting...that isn't in his hands. That is the lever that has to be moved in order to improve the product... and that's the part that makes the change difficult. There is too much agenda, too much ego, and too many signed contracts to make any move in the next several years. Until the Indycar agenda stops being to make profit for the owners and starts focusing on making racing better there will be no progress made. Race management and aerokits... too little to matter.
Not quite....Williams caved in the end but he had already made his decision.
IRL races weren't loaded with Marlboro hats/freebee tickets? Attendance wasn't also boosted tremendously by the NASCAR combo tickets many tracks required?
I wasn't sure where to put this but I thought I saw a great idea today in Cavin's star blog. A fan wrote in and said they should put numbers at the corners so the TV cameras could pick them up. Making it easier to differentiate the corners of a street race on TV.
I'd rather have 10% of the world interested in the ICS than 50% of US that NASCAR currently has
Great thread. Two promotion ideas:
Do Reachout and Marketing With KART:
http://www.trackforum.com/forums/sho...g-With-Karting
Sell Season Tickets to the RV Community:
http://www.trackforum.com/forums/sho...e-RV-Community
Dick Ralstin - Barney Oldfield - AJ Foyt - Jim Clark - Dan Gurney - IMS - IMS YT - INDYCAR - INDYCAR YT
So, to help do it again with the post count, and for permanent reference......here we go...doing it again:
What needs to be changed for Indy Car to survive long term without constantly turning to a sugar daddy (PVH this time, who spent their millions and have now disappeared) to keep the series rolling.
The cars: write a rule book. If it fits, it runs. Why do this, aside from the fact that the current car is butt ugly, not open wheel, and doesn't attract fans? Indy car attracts fans from many interests. Some come for the speed (we don't have that now), some come for the flash, some come for the engineering creativity (outlawed now), and some come for the racing You don't get much racing on a two mile oval with 25 cars). So write a rule book. Creative minds, and creative companies will come forth to build cars of interest, so you get more engineering involvement, more corporate involvement, and greater fan interest. Just like people thought might happen with the aero kits (which won't because the product is singular and not open to creativity) you will get the Boeing's, the United Technologies and others who work in a high tech, high specialist technologies, and highly engineered product world.It is pure racing of man and machines, and the fans from many perspectives will find Indy Car racing once again.
The Venues: I don't personally like street races, but they are a source of fan interest for people who like that sort of thing. Go for it. Get an equal mix of Street Events, Natural Road Courses, Dirt Events, and Oval Events. The cars do best on ovals, so maybe you have the same total of oval events and 'all others'. The current sport is not sized for big ovals. Use them as 'special events' Run regularly at smaller venues where people can get to know the series once again. Indy Car is NOT what it perceives itself to be. It is trying to be a global series when it doesn't have a local fan base. You can't build a tower on a toothpick. Start over by building a fan base at local/regional venues where the 20-30,000 fans who show up for events will get a real personal experience.
The Schedule: The series needs to run 35 or 40 times per season. The gaps in the current shoulder just kill any momentum which might be created by any one event. By the time the next even rolls around, the excitement and enthusiasm is gone. "The cars run every week. Count on it." Fans can deal with that. Run double headers. Run road and oval courses each week where they exist. Run Thursday nights at a local track, and then Sunday at a nearby venue. Use the Big Ovals as special events where many local/regional fan bases converge to see what the cars are really capable of. Imagine the excitement of seeing the cars at 220 or 230 after seeing them at 140-150 at a local track?
To me, this is the product. Pure racing.
Once you fix the product, you have something to market. Build a web site (not that current piece of puke that Indy Car has). Build a marketing department. Build a promotion department. Get a media package. Get a real series sponsor. Build on the excitement of growth. The fans will, in large part, sell it for you. Currently you can't tell someone you are an Indy Car fan--they look at you like you are a martian. "You do what?" How embarrassing is that for the sport?
Start with the product. Then it will be fun again.
Thanks... Because that's the way, uh huh, uh huh, I like it
Seriously, it is appreciated
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