What's this guy got against Katherine Legge to make him trash her so?

[JimmyB10]

Norris McDonald takes a vicious and cheap shot at Kat (in my opinion):

http://thestar.blogs.com/autoracing/...r-indycar.html

We could (probably have and probably will) debate Legge's relative merits as a driver, but McDonald explicitly compares her to Milka Duno and Marty Roth. I mean, really?

Her record in Champ Car wasn't that bad when you look at it. She deserves a shot in IIRS. My comment on his column explains why. Please read that first before you begin arguing with me.

And regardless of whether his opinion is defensible, this is not the kind of press Indycar needs. If you agree, please go give him a piece of your mind, too.

[milliesdad]

Norris McDonald takes a vicious and cheap shot at Kat (in my opinion):

http://thestar.blogs.com/autoracing/...r-indycar.html

We could (probably have and probably will) debate Legge's relative merits as a driver, but McDonald explicitly compares her to Milka Duno and Marty Roth. I mean, really?

Her record in Champ Car wasn't that bad when you look at it. She deserves a shot in IIRS. My comment on his column explains why. Please read that first before you begin arguing with me.

And regardless of whether his opinion is defensible, this is not the kind of press Indycar needs. If you agree, please go give him a piece of your mind, too.

No body "deserves" a ride in the highest levels of motorsports, it is earned.

And, yes, Katherine Legge has earned a shot in IndyCar.

Maybe this McDonald fellow should go back to stick-and-ball coverage. Or do more research before sitting down to write.

[indyrox@lith]

I got an email the other day from a guy who writes me frequently, and this is what he said: "Now that Danica’s gone, who is going to replace her?"
So I wrote back and said: "I hope whoever it is turns out to be is a really good racing driver – as good a driver as she’s been."

I stopped there.

[Racing Steward]

I stopped there.

I see why you stopped there. That right there disqualifies the bonehead who wrote that so called article. The only thing Danica did good in her career was take care of her cars. She didnt tear up alot of equipment after her first couple of years. But she had NO work ethic, she knew nothing about the race cars and therefore could not help her team, she did nothing but scream at her strategist instead of giving proper driver feedback (which is something you do when you dont know anything about the machine you are driving).

She had no accountability for anything. Always played the blame game. Did nothing but complain about road-streets (which is what the lesser drivers who arent any good on them do) NOTE: Micheal tried to get her to go and do A1-GP with Marco to help get better on twisties and she declined because she wasnt getting paid to do it. She was great for Indycar in terms of marketing and she kept some eyes on Indycar but as a driver she was nothing special at all. Just another average joe. She was a perfect of example of what over-promotion does to the image of her as a driver. She, like many Nascar drivers are portayed by the over-promotion to be way better drivers than they really are.

Besides the fact that nobody in the paddock could stand her and it wont take long in Nascar for her to get on the nerves of her competitors. Im not saying she wont have success in Nascar, I can actually see her winning there. Most nascar races are crap shoots. Hang around for 400 miles, make a few pit stops, have a last car standing crash-fest in the final 75 miles. The cars arent that tough, otherwise out of shape drivers and 40, 50 and 60 year olds wouldnt be driving them without issues. I can really see her winning Daytona or Talladega. Absolutely zero talent required. Despite my disliking of Danica, I will stay true to open wheel and root for her in taxi cabs.

[Aeron]

Well here's the two things all the detractors can't ignore. Supposedly Kat went out and got herself a sponsor willing to sign her to a multi-year contract something that other "More deserving" drivers haven't done. The other thing is if Kat leads a few laps and finishes third in the Indy 500 the mainstream sports press will pick that story up, where as unless Graham Rahal wins two or three races in a row this year his name won't be mentioned on ESPN for more that a few seconds. Thems the facts, don't have to like them, but they are what they are.

[Foxracer]

Mc Donald is an idiot. Kat is a racer and a driver not afraid to bump wheels. Anyone who actually watched a Champ car race can tell you that. I have seen with my own eyes this woman race cars more powerful than the current one or the old one. Was she brought up to early? Maybe. Did she make some bold moves that maybe she shouldn't have? Sure. Will she be rusty after being out of single seaters since 08? Maybe. However there is no doubt in my mind she belongs in Indycar. I can also tell you that the last team she race for was not that good. Hell her Dale Coyne machine wasn't even painted the first half of CC's last season. RANT OFF

[JimmyB10]

Her stats indicate that if someone compared her to Milka Duno and Marty Roth, they would be correct.

Okay, since you refuse to read it, I'll lay a few out for you. My point is that plain summary stats don't necessarily tell the story.

Legge: 6 top ten finishes in 2 years, 22 races (would've been 7 if not for her wing failure at Road America with 6 laps to go while battling for 5th)
Roth & Duno: No top tens, EVER in a combined 60-some races.

Legge led 12 laps at Milwaukee.
Roth & Duno: No laps led, EVER.

Legge: Even when not top 10, she finished on the lead lap many times.
Roth & Duno: Not 100% certain, but I don't think either one of them EVER finished on the lead lap, not even once. Roth & Duno were routinely retired by race officials because they were so far off the pace they were a hazard.

Legge won 3 races in Atlantics in 1 season.
Duno skipped feeder series altogether somehow, and Roth never won a single race in TEN YEARS in the various versions of the Indy Lights series.

Legge had a big learning curve her first year, and spun or made contact too many times, but lots of drivers do and considering her lack of experience she got up to speed pretty quickly. And she showed more cojones than many seasoned male drivers after her Road America crash; when half the crowd were sure she was probably dead or crippled, minutes later she smiled for the cameras and declared she'd like to get back in a car and finish the race. That's a racer.

Her second year, she had SEVEN DNFs due to mechanical failures, and 3 retirements due to contact (some her fault, some not), so her point total is NOT good evidence of how far she had come since her first year. In the rest of the 2007 races she had 2 top tens, and every other race she finished on the lead lap.

So, when you look past simple numbers, there's absolutely no comparison at all.

I said all of this (and more) elsewhere, and wouldn't have had to type it up again if you'd have just followed the bloody link. But there you go.

[pitwall3]

Mc Donald is an idiot. Kat is a racer and a driver not afraid to bump wheels. Anyone who actually watched a Champ car race can tell you that. I have seen with my own eyes this woman race cars more powerful than the current one or the old one. Was she brought up to early? Maybe. Did she make some bold moves that maybe she shouldn't have? Sure. Will she be rusty after being out of single seaters since 08? Maybe. However there is no doubt in my mind she belongs in Indycar. I can also tell you that the last team she race for was not that good. Hell her Dale Coyne machine wasn't even painted the first half of CC's last season. RANT OFF

JUst starting to read through this **** storm based on Macdonald's article. What do you expect when he writes for a rag based in Hog Town. Having seen Legge race in both the Atlantics and Champ I would have to agree with you on "she belongs in Indycar.

[JimmyB10]

The only thing Danica did good in her career was....

Oh wait, the thread's not about Danica...again.

[#7batmobile]

I'll bet that feels good to finally get all that off your chest, as I'm sure you've been holding in your feelings and opinions about Danica for so long, just waiting for somewhere appropriate to express them.

Oh wait, the thread's not about Danica...again.

Heh,heh. Maybe there should be an "ALL Danica Patrick thread for 2012," after all.

[JimmyB10]

Doitagain, I think you're getting really carried away with censoring posts, IMO. What was wrong with my posts? or any of them, really, that they need to be eliminated altogether? The only thing I think anyone said that's really out of line is calling me a jerk and ignorant and insulting my hometown. It was obvious they hadn't bothered to read the article or my comments (and as a matter of fact emphatically refused to) and their only intention was to tell me my opinion couldn't possibly be valid, using arguments I had already addressed if they had read them. I think a bit of indignation and sarcasm is perfectly understandable. I didn't escalate and things seemed under control. Are we adults here, or what?

[goldie19]

I see why you stopped there. That right there disqualifies the bonehead who wrote that so called article. The only thing Danica did good in her career was take care of her cars. She didnt tear up alot of equipment after her first couple of years. But she had NO work ethic, she knew nothing about the race cars and therefore could not help her team, she did nothing but scream at her strategist instead of giving proper driver feedback (which is something you do when you dont know anything about the machine you are driving).

She had no accountability for anything. Always played the blame game. Did nothing but complain about road-streets (which is what the lesser drivers who arent any good on them do) NOTE: Micheal tried to get her to go and do A1-GP with Marco to help get better on twisties and she declined because she wasnt getting paid to do it. She was great for Indycar in terms of marketing and she kept some eyes on Indycar but as a driver she was nothing special at all. Just another average joe. She was a perfect of example of what over-promotion does to the image of her as a driver. She, like many Nascar drivers are portayed by the over-promotion to be way better drivers than they really are.

Besides the fact that nobody in the paddock could stand her and it wont take long in Nascar for her to get on the nerves of her competitors. Im not saying she wont have success in Nascar, I can actually see her winning there. Most nascar races are crap shoots. Hang around for 400 miles, make a few pit stops, have a last car standing crash-fest in the final 75 miles. The cars arent that tough, otherwise out of shape drivers and 40, 50 and 60 year olds wouldnt be driving them without issues. I can really see her winning Daytona or Talladega. Absolutely zero talent required. Despite my disliking of Danica, I will stay true to open wheel and root for her in taxi cabs.

She finished top ten in points every year I the series.....she led laps by pass Dan Wheldon at Indy....she would risk her life for free in A1GP.....she didn't tear up gear, which is kinda a reason many drivers we want to see can't get rides now....she made 1 comment her whole career about it being someone else's fault....no talent to needed to win Daytona or Talladega? I'm sure Foyt, Andretti, Jimmie Johnson, Tony Stewart and many other legends might wonder what the heck you mean by that!

As far as what the paddock thinks about her....I side with Sam Hornish....I'm not here to make friends!

Not sure what a Katherine Legge thread has to do with Danica, but you are more wrong about DP than the author is about Kat....IMO

[Racing Steward]

She finished top ten in points every year I the series.....she led laps by pass Dan Wheldon at Indy....she would risk her life for free in A1GP.....she didn't tear up gear, which is kinda a reason many drivers we want to see can't get rides now....she made 1 comment her whole career about it being someone else's fault....no talent to needed to win Daytona or Talladega? I'm sure Foyt, Andretti, Jimmie Johnson, Tony Stewart and many other legends might wonder what the heck you mean by that!

As far as what the paddock thinks about her....I side with Sam Hornish....I'm not here to make friends!

Not sure what a Katherine Legge thread has to do with Danica, but you are more wrong about DP than the author is about Kat....IMO

Ignorance as usual. I gave you a fact about her A1-GP deal, just ask Robin Miller who said it one of his mailbags 2 or 3 years back. Its not a debate. Its a fact. She wouldnt do it unless she got paid, which means she cared nothing about improving as a driver which is not a work ethic.

Are you saying winning Daytona in the 70's is the same as winning Daytona now? All those legends you mentioned would wonder what the heck you are saying. Restrictor plates and holding on to the wheel and gas pedal while your partner pushes you. No talent required. Its not real racing like it was back then. Its an entertainment platform now.

Not there to make friends, fair enough. Just pointing out that multiple drivers have had issues with her and that will be the case in Nascar as well.

Her first 3 years: 12th, 9th, 7th in a field of 16 full timers. Wow! I grant her that she took care of her equipment pretty well over her career and stayed out of trouble and in most cases lucked into her finishing positions. She had a handful of races where she ran really well, but they were all ovals and you could throw almost every driver out there into AA equipment or RLR equipment at the time and they would have a couple good runs. She was decent on ovals but no good on R-S, could not help her team at all with the cars, knew nothing about them and she drove for top teams her entire career and comes up with One fuel milage win in 7 years of competitions which equals a very average driver at the very best.

The writer brought up Danica when talking about Katherine, hoping the next female driver could be as good a driver as she was and I pointed out how incorrect he was. So I think the post was quite relevant.

[9rows]

two races in...

[JimmyB10]

McDonald "...she has no business racing an Indy car on the same track as Dario Franchitti, Will Power, Scott Dixon and the rest (including currently unemployed drivers James Hinchcliffe, Oriol Servia, Justin Wilson and Paul Tracy).

This is a series whose president boasts that it wants to feature the best drivers in the world. It already put the boots to Marty Roth and Milka Duno because of safety concerns and I'm sure there are now some others on their "discourage list." If Katherine Legge isn't on it, she should be."

RS2: I know you can read and I know you know what it says. I quote for the benefit of those who might believe you are being serious and honest.

[RS2]

the article that started the whole thread said she shouldn't be given a license and allowed on the track at all, for safety reasons

It is pretty safe to say that we are not going to get far with Jimmy.

I think the real loser in this thread is poor Kat. Nobody was making such a fuss about her.

[Josh Knight]

At least she gets out of the way for the leaders

[Freddy1285]

Can't wait to hear Jimmy's excuse this time around... "Kat's results this week-end were good, aside from hitting that wall due to bad luck during the race, she ran a good time on the top half of lap #27 in practice."

[Formula Indy]

Although he does interject his opinion, he does back it up with some facts. I personally like her and hope she does get a shot in the dw12 but that doesn't mean that she did not get her opportunities because of her sex. Danica used that to make her a superstar. IMHO, it isn't how you get there, it is what you do once you arrive. She will have a season to prove all these people wrong..if she doesn't, that's ok too. She will always be a nice person.

[Buellboy]

Legge has been out of Champcar/Indycar for a long time and she didn't race at all in 2011. That makes me nervous. I hope the new BB takes a hard look at the skills of every driver who is new to Indycar or has limited experience at this level. Indycar can't choose who the teams hire but they should have final say over who is and isn't qualtified to race.

[Tree0404]

Her record in Champ Car wasn't that bad when you look at it.

Finishing last in points of all full-time drivers in consecutive years (her only years) against a field where only P1- about P9 or 10 could be considered quality drivers is pretty bad. (Granted had Alex Figge made one more start in '07 he probably would have been the worst, but still)

[Grizzlor]

I personally don't expect much more than back marking from Legge in 2012, if she gets a ride. She's simply too far removed from major OWR competition, and was fairly lost in Champ Car, a series in which Allmendinger, Wilson, Pagenaud, Bourdais, etc., all stepped in and were instantly fast during that time. So on that regard, Norris is right, she will not be a contender as Danica was early on. I'll also dispute his slur on Simona de Silvestro though, who has actually been pretty good on road courses.

Now, I don't believe it's the fans' place to determine who is FIT to be on a race track in the IICS. That's up to the officials. This in my opinion was the one area that Brian Barnhart failed in terms of safety. While I think he was trying to do right by the owners, he allowed clearly unqualified drivers like Roth, Duno, Foyt IV, Dr. Jack, etc. on the track when they shouldn't have been. Is Legge going to get somebody hurt out there? I don't think so, but she's not going to compete for the top 10.

But I think Norris is well within his rights as a writer to question the process, which is what he's doing. I mean, sure people like Pippa Mann, but she didn't belong in series last year. She proved it again and again, and I hate to pick on her, but it's the best example I can think of. Perhaps with more testing or something, but that wasn't going to happen. Again, I think you wind up with these kind of diverging ride buyers. On one hand you have those who have competed a ton at lower levels with so-so results but often due to being with lousy teams. On the other, you have those who did well in those levels. Third, you have the people who barely ever raced at those levels, and when they did, were not good. Legge is in that group.

[crispy]

He's right.

She's adorable.

She's got no business in IndyCars.

[Indy-hp]

I like her, both as a person and as a racer.

Though her big car OW record is indeed dismal, I don't think we've yet seen what she's really capable of. Her rookie season was with a good team, but she was brought up from the little cars too soon, and her second season was with a shoestring team.

She earned my respect with her post-crash comments at Road America, and I think she has earned a place in the IICS for a season or two before we dismiss her out of hand.

[paper]

after what I saw her endure at sebring in a full race test ,, I doubt most men drivers could have posted her results while being subjected to firable BS from some of her teams supposed wonder boys. go kate,

[9rows]

He's right.

She's adorable.

She's got no business in IndyCars.

^^^^ this

[Vic Mackey]

Norris McDonald

As soon as I saw this I knew I wouldn't have to read any further, because it's not like anything reasoned or intelligent will come from him.

[INDY500FAN13]

We could (probably have and probably will) debate Legge's relative merits as a driver, but McDonald explicitly compares her to Milka Duno and Marty Roth. I mean, really?.

Her record in Champ Car wasn't that bad when you look at it. .

I want you to look at what you just wrote and then look at this.

2006 Stats: (PKV Racing) (14 races)

Wins - 0
Top 5s - 0
Top 10s - 4
Final Point Standings - 16th *LAST of all Full Time Drivers*

2007 Stats (Dale Coyne Racing) (14 Races)

Wins - 0
Top 5s - 0
Top 10s - 1
Final Point Standings - 15th *Finished 2nd to last in Full Time Drivers*

I want your then to realize that there were only 17 Full Time Cars during that period and some were suspect at best with talent level.

[midtown]

If nothing else, we'll boost his blog's hits today.

[vintage]

Norris McDonald takes a vicious and cheap shot at Kat (in my opinion):

http://thestar.blogs.com/autoracing/...r-indycar.html

We could (probably have and probably will) debate Legge's relative merits as a driver, but McDonald explicitly compares her to Milka Duno and Marty Roth. I mean, really?

Her record in Champ Car wasn't that bad when you look at it. She deserves a shot in IIRS. My comment on his column explains why. Please read that first before you begin arguing with me.

And regardless of whether his opinion is defensible, this is not the kind of press Indycar needs. If you agree, please go give him a piece of your mind, too.

I think this article and your reply represent two different opinions analyzing the same information. Neither is crazy. While I lean more the writer's way, I guess we'll have to wait and see.