What's this guy got against Katherine Legge to make him trash her so?

[9rows]

He's right.

She's adorable.

She's got no business in IndyCars.

^^^^ this

[Mr. Bean]

People act like she's a Marty Roth or milka. She was on PKV racing, and she was 3rd driver on a team that servia, damatta, vasser all struggled to get results on. She WAS moved up a bit quick and for being tossed in a car that powerfull so fast, she did decent. After that she was thrown to the 2nd dale Coyne car. The WORST seat in openwheel racing.

I wouldnt worry too much about her pace since they made the DW12 nice and slow.

[Aeron]

Well here's the two things all the detractors can't ignore. Supposedly Kat went out and got herself a sponsor willing to sign her to a multi-year contract something that other "More deserving" drivers haven't done. The other thing is if Kat leads a few laps and finishes third in the Indy 500 the mainstream sports press will pick that story up, where as unless Graham Rahal wins two or three races in a row this year his name won't be mentioned on ESPN for more that a few seconds. Thems the facts, don't have to like them, but they are what they are.

[piercey]

Throwing her in with Roth and Duno is a bit unfair, IMO. When she gets her ride I'll think again. IMO, she is way overrated, but Champ Car is tough to go on and her equipment in DTM would make Conquest look like a race winning organization...

[Foxracer]

Mc Donald is an idiot. Kat is a racer and a driver not afraid to bump wheels. Anyone who actually watched a Champ car race can tell you that. I have seen with my own eyes this woman race cars more powerful than the current one or the old one. Was she brought up to early? Maybe. Did she make some bold moves that maybe she shouldn't have? Sure. Will she be rusty after being out of single seaters since 08? Maybe. However there is no doubt in my mind she belongs in Indycar. I can also tell you that the last team she race for was not that good. Hell her Dale Coyne machine wasn't even painted the first half of CC's last season. RANT OFF

[JimmyB10]

Her stats indicate that if someone compared her to Milka Duno and Marty Roth, they would be correct.

Okay, since you refuse to read it, I'll lay a few out for you. My point is that plain summary stats don't necessarily tell the story.

Legge: 6 top ten finishes in 2 years, 22 races (would've been 7 if not for her wing failure at Road America with 6 laps to go while battling for 5th)
Roth & Duno: No top tens, EVER in a combined 60-some races.

Legge led 12 laps at Milwaukee.
Roth & Duno: No laps led, EVER.

Legge: Even when not top 10, she finished on the lead lap many times.
Roth & Duno: Not 100% certain, but I don't think either one of them EVER finished on the lead lap, not even once. Roth & Duno were routinely retired by race officials because they were so far off the pace they were a hazard.

Legge won 3 races in Atlantics in 1 season.
Duno skipped feeder series altogether somehow, and Roth never won a single race in TEN YEARS in the various versions of the Indy Lights series.

Legge had a big learning curve her first year, and spun or made contact too many times, but lots of drivers do and considering her lack of experience she got up to speed pretty quickly. And she showed more cojones than many seasoned male drivers after her Road America crash; when half the crowd were sure she was probably dead or crippled, minutes later she smiled for the cameras and declared she'd like to get back in a car and finish the race. That's a racer.

Her second year, she had SEVEN DNFs due to mechanical failures, and 3 retirements due to contact (some her fault, some not), so her point total is NOT good evidence of how far she had come since her first year. In the rest of the 2007 races she had 2 top tens, and every other race she finished on the lead lap.

So, when you look past simple numbers, there's absolutely no comparison at all.

I said all of this (and more) elsewhere, and wouldn't have had to type it up again if you'd have just followed the bloody link. But there you go.

[JimmyB10]

The only thing Danica did good in her career was....

Oh wait, the thread's not about Danica...again.

[Mr. Bean]

Okay, since you refuse to read it, I'll lay a few out for you. My point is that plain summary stats don't necessarily tell the story.

Legge: 6 top ten finishes in 2 years, 22 races (would've been 7 if not for her wing failure at Road America with 6 laps to go while battling for 5th)
Roth & Duno: No top tens, EVER in a combined 60-some races.

Legge led 12 laps at Milwaukee.
Roth & Duno: No laps led, EVER.

Legge: Even when not top 10, she finished on the lead lap many times.
Roth & Duno: Not 100% certain, but I don't think either one of them EVER finished on the lead lap, not even once. Roth & Duno were routinely retired by race officials because they were so far off the pace they were a hazard.

Legge won 3 races in Atlantics in 1 season.
Duno skipped feeder series altogether somehow, and Roth never won a single race in TEN YEARS in the various versions of the Indy Lights series.

Legge had a big learning curve her first year, and spun or made contact too many times, but lots of drivers do and considering her lack of experience she got up to speed pretty quickly. And she showed more cojones than many seasoned male drivers after her Road America crash; when half the crowd were sure she was probably dead or crippled, minutes later she smiled for the cameras and declared she'd like to get back in a car and finish the race. That's a racer.

Her second year, she had SEVEN DNFs due to mechanical failures, and 3 retirements due to contact (some her fault, some not), so her point total is NOT good evidence of how far she had come since her first year. In the rest of the 2007 races she had 2 top tens, and every other race she finished on the lead lap.

So, when you look past simple numbers, there's absolutely no comparison at all.

I said all of this (and more) elsewhere, and wouldn't have had to type it up again if you'd have just followed the bloody link. But there you go.

[crispy]

Now do the same with these stats:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_De...Masters_season

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_De...Masters_season

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_De...Masters_season

Nevermind, I'll save you the trouble of compiling those numbers. Dead last in darn near every race she ran over three seasons with three different teams.

Dead last in the season standings amongst the drivers that ran the full season.

She can't beat the "Stars" of German Touring Cars. She's not worthy.

But she sure is cute...

[Inline]

Just put her in a car and see how she goes.
My guess is she'll be faster than Ed Carpenter on a road or street course.

[Hitokiri]

How about we give her a chance because it seems she's going to get one anyway.

[INDY500FAN13]

My point is that plain summary stats don't necessarily tell the story...

Thats an ignorant remark. Thats like saying The Indianapolis Colts showed promise this year but their record was 2-14.

The real answer = they sucked this year.

Legge had a big learning curve her first year, and spun or made contact too many times, but lots of drivers do and considering her lack of experience she got up to speed pretty quickly. And she showed more cojones than many seasoned male drivers after her Road America crash; when half the crowd were sure she was probably dead or crippled, minutes later she smiled for the cameras and declared she'd like to get back in a car and finish the race. That's a racer.

Her second year, she had SEVEN DNFs due to mechanical failures, and 3 retirements due to contact (some her fault, some not), so her point total is NOT good evidence of how far she had come since her first year. In the rest of the 2007 races she had 2 top tens, and every other race she finished on the lead lap..

Sounds like EJ Viso's same path. Tell me he is a good driver, please.

[vintage]

Just put her in a car and see how she goes.
My guess is she'll be faster than Ed Carpenter on a road or street course.

While I'll be surprised if she answers the bell for a full season, given the long time between her press release and now, I will give her recognition if she really did find a multi-year sponsor adequate to fund a ride.

My guess is that at best she's in Paul Tracy terrritory with a partial deal and either a team or her people are scrambling to shore it up.

[Sammich]

She can't be any worse than the other women in the series.

[Spike]

Driving a Lights car testing with 0-3 other cars at 185 and driving an Indycar at 220 are 2 different things. Are you saying they are the same thing?

Try to stay focused. The question at hand is about your statement in post #27:

Thats funny because I dont think any of us have seen her race at Indianapolis.

Are you saying the only way to tell if a driver is dangerous "on the track" is to have that driver race at Indianapolis?

[INDY500FAN13]

Try to stay focused. The question at hand is about your statement in post #27:

Are you saying the only way to tell if a driver is dangerous "on the track" is to have that driver race at Indianapolis?

No, a driver can be "dangerous" at any race track. I believe they can be even more so dangerous at Indianapolis with increased speeds.

[#7batmobile]

I'll bet that feels good to finally get all that off your chest, as I'm sure you've been holding in your feelings and opinions about Danica for so long, just waiting for somewhere appropriate to express them.

Oh wait, the thread's not about Danica...again.

Heh,heh. Maybe there should be an "ALL Danica Patrick thread for 2012," after all.

[goldie19]

I see why you stopped there. That right there disqualifies the bonehead who wrote that so called article. The only thing Danica did good in her career was take care of her cars. She didnt tear up alot of equipment after her first couple of years. But she had NO work ethic, she knew nothing about the race cars and therefore could not help her team, she did nothing but scream at her strategist instead of giving proper driver feedback (which is something you do when you dont know anything about the machine you are driving).

She had no accountability for anything. Always played the blame game. Did nothing but complain about road-streets (which is what the lesser drivers who arent any good on them do) NOTE: Micheal tried to get her to go and do A1-GP with Marco to help get better on twisties and she declined because she wasnt getting paid to do it. She was great for Indycar in terms of marketing and she kept some eyes on Indycar but as a driver she was nothing special at all. Just another average joe. She was a perfect of example of what over-promotion does to the image of her as a driver. She, like many Nascar drivers are portayed by the over-promotion to be way better drivers than they really are.

Besides the fact that nobody in the paddock could stand her and it wont take long in Nascar for her to get on the nerves of her competitors. Im not saying she wont have success in Nascar, I can actually see her winning there. Most nascar races are crap shoots. Hang around for 400 miles, make a few pit stops, have a last car standing crash-fest in the final 75 miles. The cars arent that tough, otherwise out of shape drivers and 40, 50 and 60 year olds wouldnt be driving them without issues. I can really see her winning Daytona or Talladega. Absolutely zero talent required. Despite my disliking of Danica, I will stay true to open wheel and root for her in taxi cabs.

She finished top ten in points every year I the series.....she led laps by pass Dan Wheldon at Indy....she would risk her life for free in A1GP.....she didn't tear up gear, which is kinda a reason many drivers we want to see can't get rides now....she made 1 comment her whole career about it being someone else's fault....no talent to needed to win Daytona or Talladega? I'm sure Foyt, Andretti, Jimmie Johnson, Tony Stewart and many other legends might wonder what the heck you mean by that!

As far as what the paddock thinks about her....I side with Sam Hornish....I'm not here to make friends!

Not sure what a Katherine Legge thread has to do with Danica, but you are more wrong about DP than the author is about Kat....IMO

[goldie19]

Okay, since you refuse to read it, I'll lay a few out for you. My point is that plain summary stats don't necessarily tell the story.

Legge: 6 top ten finishes in 2 years, 22 races (would've been 7 if not for her wing failure at Road America with 6 laps to go while battling for 5th)
Roth & Duno: No top tens, EVER in a combined 60-some races.

Legge led 12 laps at Milwaukee.
Roth & Duno: No laps led, EVER.

Legge: Even when not top 10, she finished on the lead lap many times.
Roth & Duno: Not 100% certain, but I don't think either one of them EVER finished on the lead lap, not even once. Roth & Duno were routinely retired by race officials because they were so far off the pace they were a hazard.

Legge won 3 races in Atlantics in 1 season.
Duno skipped feeder series altogether somehow, and Roth never won a single race in TEN YEARS in the various versions of the Indy Lights series.

Legge had a big learning curve her first year, and spun or made contact too many times, but lots of drivers do and considering her lack of experience she got up to speed pretty quickly. And she showed more cojones than many seasoned male drivers after her Road America crash; when half the crowd were sure she was probably dead or crippled, minutes later she smiled for the cameras and declared she'd like to get back in a car and finish the race. That's a racer.

Her second year, she had SEVEN DNFs due to mechanical failures, and 3 retirements due to contact (some her fault, some not), so her point total is NOT good evidence of how far she had come since her first year. In the rest of the 2007 races she had 2 top tens, and every other race she finished on the lead lap.

So, when you look past simple numbers, there's absolutely no comparison at all.

I said all of this (and more) elsewhere, and wouldn't have had to type it up again if you'd have just followed the bloody link. But there you go.

I don't know about all the things here, but Milka did lead laps and she did finish on the lead lap at the Indy 500....THAT is saying something (it might have been lap 199......)

[Racing Steward]

She finished top ten in points every year I the series.....she led laps by pass Dan Wheldon at Indy....she would risk her life for free in A1GP.....she didn't tear up gear, which is kinda a reason many drivers we want to see can't get rides now....she made 1 comment her whole career about it being someone else's fault....no talent to needed to win Daytona or Talladega? I'm sure Foyt, Andretti, Jimmie Johnson, Tony Stewart and many other legends might wonder what the heck you mean by that!

As far as what the paddock thinks about her....I side with Sam Hornish....I'm not here to make friends!

Not sure what a Katherine Legge thread has to do with Danica, but you are more wrong about DP than the author is about Kat....IMO

Ignorance as usual. I gave you a fact about her A1-GP deal, just ask Robin Miller who said it one of his mailbags 2 or 3 years back. Its not a debate. Its a fact. She wouldnt do it unless she got paid, which means she cared nothing about improving as a driver which is not a work ethic.

Are you saying winning Daytona in the 70's is the same as winning Daytona now? All those legends you mentioned would wonder what the heck you are saying. Restrictor plates and holding on to the wheel and gas pedal while your partner pushes you. No talent required. Its not real racing like it was back then. Its an entertainment platform now.

Not there to make friends, fair enough. Just pointing out that multiple drivers have had issues with her and that will be the case in Nascar as well.

Her first 3 years: 12th, 9th, 7th in a field of 16 full timers. Wow! I grant her that she took care of her equipment pretty well over her career and stayed out of trouble and in most cases lucked into her finishing positions. She had a handful of races where she ran really well, but they were all ovals and you could throw almost every driver out there into AA equipment or RLR equipment at the time and they would have a couple good runs. She was decent on ovals but no good on R-S, could not help her team at all with the cars, knew nothing about them and she drove for top teams her entire career and comes up with One fuel milage win in 7 years of competitions which equals a very average driver at the very best.

The writer brought up Danica when talking about Katherine, hoping the next female driver could be as good a driver as she was and I pointed out how incorrect he was. So I think the post was quite relevant.

[rrrr]

*yawn*

She'll never even sniff a top ten...

[JimmyB10]

I don't know about all the things here, but Milka did lead laps and she did finish on the lead lap at the Indy 500....THAT is saying something (it might have been lap 199......)

I'll take you word on her leading, in all those races she probably did at some point on pit stops. And, sorry, but I don't see why she should have her laps rounded up from 199 to 200 at Indy just to say she finished on the lead lap in 1 stinking race. Regardless, are you suggesting that there really is some reasonable comparison to be made between Milka Duno and Katherine Legge? That would astonish me.

EDIT: Yes, I stand corrected, she led 5 laps at Chicagoland, probably stayed out when everyone pitted (which may have been how Legge got her 12 laps). But I would be very surprised if that wasn't the only freak occurrence of Milka leading, and I think on top of everything else, leading less than half as many laps as Kat in twice as many races doesn't put Milka in the same catagory

EDIT 2: Kat's lead did start by staying out when the leaders pitted, but after 2 laps leading under yellow, she held the lead for 10 laps under green; Duno led 4 yellow flag laps and was swallowed up by the pack within 2 laps once under green, leading only 1. So even their leading in one race is no comparison.

[JimmyB10]

Thats an ignorant remark. Thats like saying The Indianapolis Colts showed promise this year but their record was 2-14.

No, it's not. It's like saying that in auto racing, plain summary stats don't always tell the story. Tell me, how do you suppose 7 DNFs for mechanical failures affect her ability to score points? Do you think teams base their driver decisions solely based on plain summary statistics like finishes and points and disregard any of the circumstances behind the stats? Of course not.

Sounds like EJ Viso's same path. Tell me he is a good driver, please.

We're not talking about EJ Viso and his career, we're talking about....

Oh, never mind.

[JimmyB10]

Now do the same with these stats:

Nevermind, I'll save you the trouble of compiling those numbers. Dead last in darn near every race she ran over three seasons with three different teams.

Dead last in the season standings amongst the drivers that ran the full season

I don't know enough about that series to make even the slightest comment, except to say that her record looks terrible. But I'm sure that if she had won in that series, you'd likely be among the people saying, "Touring Cars are completely different, just because she can win in that Mickey Mouse series doesn't mean she can driva an Indycar. And we are talking about Indycar, after all, not German Touring Cars. You can hardly get much further away from Indycar than that, so let's stick to the subject. I stand by my analysis of her career.

[JimmyB10]

Heh,heh. Maybe there should be an "ALL Danica Patrick thread for 2012," after all.

Notice the first part has been edited out of my comment? I don't see why, Racing Steward isn't thin-skinned; he is big enough to take a little good-natured ribbing, and he can certainly dish it out.

[vintage]

I don't know enough about that series to make even the slightest comment, except to say that her record looks terrible. But I'm sure that if she had won in that series, you'd likely be among the people saying, "Touring Cars are completely different, just because she can win in that Mickey Mouse series doesn't mean she can driva an Indycar. And we are talking about Indycar, after all, not German Touring Cars. You can hardly get much further away from Indycar than that, so let's stick to the subject. I stand by my analysis of her career.

Nice comeback - choose to ignore the facts, rather than try to dispute them!

[JimmyB10]

Doitagain, I think you're getting really carried away with censoring posts, IMO. What was wrong with my posts? or any of them, really, that they need to be eliminated altogether? The only thing I think anyone said that's really out of line is calling me a jerk and ignorant and insulting my hometown. It was obvious they hadn't bothered to read the article or my comments (and as a matter of fact emphatically refused to) and their only intention was to tell me my opinion couldn't possibly be valid, using arguments I had already addressed if they had read them. I think a bit of indignation and sarcasm is perfectly understandable. I didn't escalate and things seemed under control. Are we adults here, or what?

[#7batmobile]

Notice the first part has been edited out of my comment? I don't see why, Racing Steward isn't thin-skinned; he is big enough to take a little good-natured ribbing, and he can certainly dish it out.

Not really, until you pointed it out. I'm just waiting for ALPHARD to surface to post his: " The ALL Danica Patrick Post-Indycar Thread for 2012," and his "The ALL Danica Patrick NASCAR Thread for 2012."

[JimmyB10]

Nice comeback - choose to ignore the facts, rather than try to dispute them!

Oh, please! I didn't ignore any facts. I said "her record looks terrible," didn't I? But I also truly don't think her record in rally cars really means all that much in the context of Indycar, compared to her Champ Car career. You do?

You and others dissing Legge seem to be assuming that I'm saying she's a great driver, or even a good driver. I never said that. I said that she is not nearly as bad as McDonald says she is, she's no safety hazard and it's a slander to compare her to Roth and Duno, and I explained why. So, therefore I say she's earned at least a chance to prove she belongs. The Legge-bashers have not really bothered to thoughtfully counter any of the actual arguments I've made, they've basically just said "she sucks" in one way or another, without explaining why their conclusion should be accepted over mine.

[3Paige14]

I think we should wait and give Katherine a chance. Same with Pippa as well. Let them each run a full season or two and then decide whether they're good drivers or not.

Absolutely cannot stand any female driver being compared to Milka. I don't think any one of the ladies has had as little talent as her.