"Only a fool fights in a burning house."-Kang
"If you listen to fools....The Maaahhhhb Ruuuules....."-Ronnie James Dio
Yeah, 217 running alone nearly caused a riot here and the cabs boast about 210 in a draft.
Congratulations to RHR, & all the winning drivers & teams in the fantastic 2012 season. Looking forward to 2013!
We are all together now. Goal 22-24 races per year split 50:50 oval:RC/SC
Why? 200mph is still plenty fast.. Plus most of the series races will be around 100mph..
Because some of us are still Indy car fans first and foremost.Originally Posted by Chris Paff
At this point Paff probably believes that NASCAR invented the concept of speed and auto racing in general.
If you ask NASCAR they'll already tell you they invented the safer barrier, they have the most diverse schedule in the world, they have the safest tires in the world, etc.
It's a NASCAR world and we're all just living in it......boogity boogity boogity
**** This Sport
Nascar cars without the plates would run at what speed? 230?
"Aye...and if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon."-Montgomery Scott
Threads like this sicken and embarrass me. It reinforces the perception that most hardcore Indy fans are like Star Trek fans and just makes all of us seem like arrogant, elitist, aging bigots who "don't get it".
NASCAR limited their speed on the Super Speedways to not have a 3500 lb car fly into the stands and kill fans. Before the 1987 crash, Bill Elliott was running 212.809 mph at Talladega in May and Mario Andretti was on the pole at Indy at 215.389. Not that much difference.
I love the Indy 500 (first and foremost) and IndyCar, I love foreign drivers and diversity - but why can't you enjoy Le Mans, NASCAR, USAC, Grand Am, ALMS, V8 etc as well? It just makes you look jealous, bitter and very small...
Every race I run in is in preparation for the Indianapolis 500. Indy is the most important thing in my life. It is what I live for. - Al Unser Jr.
Everything I ever wanted in my life, I found inside the walls of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. - Eddie Sachs.
I dont care what speed the taxi cabs run, all I know is some out of shape drivers as well as drivers 45+ in age can handle the cars plenty well enough to be competitive. You dont see that in Indycar. The last time we did, Mario Andretti almost killed himself. James Hylton, 72 years old drove a Cup car damn well trying to make Daytona a couple years back and ran well. Coming up short 1 position on the final lap to make the field in the Duel race.
Someone asked me today if I thought Danica would receive the Dale Jr treatment from NAscar (Which is some rules dont apply to him as they do to others) and I said: You think Nascar wants a driver who couldnt do anything in Indycar running well in their cars? What would that say about the degree of difficulty of their series. They dont want her running 35th, but they dont want her running up front.
Nascar bragging about 210 is very laughable. At many tracks they are peddle to the floor just like Indycar at many ovals and nobody ever says anything about them. Plus most drivers in nascar (not all) use their front bumpers to pass people instead of skill. Combine that with some out of shape drivers, 40/50/60 yr old drivers not having any issues driving them and they say best in the world? Toughest series? Really? People arent stupid enough to believe that load of crap (some atleast). There is perception and then there is reality. Nascar is perceived to have the best in the world, in reality they do not.
Sorry if reality hurts your feelings, Paff.
You know nothing about Star Trek or its fans, that's for sure.
Show me another TV show that has that kind of cultural resonance after almost half a century.
Don't lump those other series in with NASCAR. You have listed 6 legitimate racing series and 1 wrasslin' show on wheels.
Yup, they would.
The reason why you dont hear a hoopla of emotion and wide spread media about the new car is because it was only doing 215 at Indy. And dont even tell me 215 is fast. OW cars were capable 240+. But I guess as long as AOW is a few MPH faster then NASCAR, all is good in the minds of OW fans.
I'm not. Top fuelers are way over 300+ even after shortening the track, so are the Funny Cars.
I can see nearly 200 mph in a specific braking zone at RA. Watching cars drone around in the sub 200mph at Indy? Please get these cars over the 230 mark. IndyCar was always about engineering and speed.
Even Usain Bolt started out crawling.
Newborn Indy cars can crawl faster than full-grown NASCAR machinery can run. And there's nothing to do but go faster.
Which means a stock car on those street tracks would average 50 to 60 mph.
"The series may be hesitant to say it, but the day is here for everybody that loves IndyCar racing to link arms and help each other out. Anybody who doesn’t want to do that needs to find something else to do with their time.”
-- Eddie Gossage, President, Texas Motor Speedway, ICONIC Advisory Committee & TrackForum member
Huh 100 mph. Glad you use average speeds in your way to comparing top speeds on an oval vs a RC/SC. There are breaking zones in the 190+ range on road courses, were you aware of that Chris?
And as hitting 210 in a draft at Daytona, from a NASCAR official for years, NASCAR will tweak things to bring 'um down. Watch.
Not to be a killjoy or smart aleck, but wouldn't this thread be more appropriate for the racing business forum? I know it's the off-season and there's less to talk about (but still plenty, especially this year), but it seems to me I'm seeing more and more threads started that are getting farther and farther off what I thought this forum was supposed to be focused on, to the point that all the other forums combined still don't have half as much activity as this one, yet a significant percentage of the threads would be more appropriate somewhere else. It seems that people are posting just about everything here because it's the only one everybody visits regularly.
Just my humble opinion.
"It is marvelous to go very fast!" Lisa, portrayed by Françoise Hardy, in the film [B]Grand Prix
"A big, fat, piddling weasel, yes. But not truly evil." JB
I can only speak for myself, but I absolutely HATE nascar and everything about it. I hate the way they distort information (taking credit for the SAFER barrier, etc.), the way they run their business (buying Pikes Peak only to close it, etc.), the 'circus' they put on in the name of racing (bump-n-run, competition yellows, lucky-dog, etc.), the BS they hand out for the 'masses' (nascar drivers are the best, condemning IndyCar for the Wheldon tragedy while shirking ANY blame for their own Series's deaths - instead blaming Simpson, etc.), passing off that junk they drive as a 'stock car' (when in truth it's not), pretending they have manufacturer competition (when it's more of a spec series than IndyCar, with spec, virtually identical, series-mandated cars and outdated, purpose-built, nascar-spec engines)... everything!
I will NEVER spend five cents or even five minutes on nascar. For me, it is IndyCar Series and American open wheel formula cars like Indy Lights, Star Mazda, SF2000, etc.
INDYCAR... Home of the BEST RACING on the planet!
This isn't a NASCAR bashing site. So you can knock that off right now.
That said, physical differences certainly exist.
And speed has always been a desirable, exciting component of the sport.
They don't call it the Rubbing Channel, after all.
There probably is one, in the pay-per-view channels somewhere....
LMAO
So, someone you were talking with today, brought her into the conversation? Perfect. BTW: Alphard started an "ALL Danica Patrick 2012 Nascar/Nationwide Thread"-- It's that a way~~~~~~~
"Noone can define the "IT" factor but, by God, she's got it!" quote by fan @ 2005 Indy 500 ----"You are now our new American hero." ROGER PENSKE @ Daytona 500 2013-----"She's magical!"~~~RICK HENDRICK @ Daytona 500 2013
they already have, I pointed out this in the cab forum. They increased the plates for Friday, several cars hit 205-206 with help during the session and immediately NASCAR announced they were decreasing the plate size.
UPDATE: NASCAR announced more changes for Sprint Cup Series teams after the second day of testing at Daytona International Speedway on Friday. Teams will receive a smaller restrictor plate with an opening of 29/32nd of an inch, down from 15/16ths, to decrease the amount of air intake to the engine. The radiator opening was shrunk from 3.5-by-18 inches to 2-by-20 inches, or from 63 square inches to 40. And the pressure relief valve is now 21 pounds per square inch from the 25psi they used Friday. The top speed in Friday's test session was set 90 minutes into the afternoon by Kurt Busch. He ran a 206.058-mph average lap working in tandem with his regular drafting partner, Regan Smith. Busch hit 210.9 mph down the backstretch, the fastest portion of the track.(Fox Sports)(1-13-2012
I'm not a fan of the cabs but it isn't because of snobbery. I respect the current cab crew because they are driving miserable pigs of race cars. The COT is a horrible race car so if your good and going fast in that pig your a helluva talent in my book. With that being said its a lot easier pushing the envelope when you know you can walk away when the car gets away from you (Jimmy Johnson Fall Charlotte race 2011) or you utterly lose your mind (Kyle Busch truck race fall 2011/ Carl Edward vs Brad Kesolowski Atlanta 200?) and you know for the most part you don't get hurt. Specifically most of us have seen Kyle's vehicular assault on Ron Hornaday. Its very luck we didn't see a replay of Homestead/Paul Dana 2006. But with that being said even if some rookie clobbers Hornaday, he probably will still walk away. The drivers in the cab series know this so they can push the envelope further because they don't have to fear about getting hurt. Harvick himself said getting behind the wheel of the COT is great because he doesn't feel like he would ever get hurt driving it but he was very worried about the new crops of drivers and what that feeling of invincibility would do with them. Obviously we've seen that over the last couple years.
Again let me specify anyone who can drive that pig of car fast and steady is a great driver in my book but when you know if you make a mistake its not going to hurt or to a very much lesser extent it may not even hurt the car how does that effect the standard you hold other drivers to????
Last edited by TimmyZ1; 01-14-2012 at 04:14 AM. Reason: added commentary
I'd rather have 10% of the world interested in the ICS than 50% of US that NASCAR currently has
Some of us like more then one form of racing, there is zero need to bash NASCAR.. Indycar would love to have NASCAR's problems.. Knock off the garbage
Is this the NASCAR forum...
"If you ask NASCAR they'll already tell you they invented the safer barrier..."
Simply false...try and be honest in your bashing of another series...
Bottom line is that IndyCar has had this advantage for decades and it hasn't made a difference to speak of in the popularity battle, FWIW.
No man can cause more grief than that one clinging blindly to the vices of his ancestors. - William Faulker
Thank you.
OK NASCAR Cup cars are slower. When was the last time an Indycar ran at speed around the oval at either Daytona or Talladega? Some here seem to always bring up Darlington because there was 1 Indycar race there 60 years ago, when was the last time one was on the track there?
NASCAR is not so desperate for venues that can sell enough tickets to make a profit, including the government subsidy, that they have ever had a street course race.
Just enjoy your sport for what it is and don't act like a single aspect of it is all there is to make the claim it better than something else.
"You can't arrest those guys, they're folk heroes"
"They're criminals"
"Well most folk heroes started out as criminals"
Indycars won't be hitting top speeds of 210 until their fourth race of the season some four months from now. Remind yourself of that little fact.
It is pretty tough to boast about being faster on only four of 36 weekends. The rest of the season Indycars are either idle or slower. And no, I'm not happy about it.
Thoughts on Tom Watson almost winning British Open at 50+? Or George Foreman being heavyweight champion of the world at 45 (by knockout of his 26 year old opponent).....or Bernard Hopkins being lightweight champ at 46....
"I think there's only so many people that can take care of themselves, and can take care of other people. And the rest of the people … they're useful in terms of compost for the whole planet, you know." - Bill Murray
I don't put much stock in their numbers on those tracks versus Indy because the tracks are completely different and they run in really tight drafts of two cars now. If you actually wanted to measure them look at them when they run the same track and you'll see a far greater difference in speed.
I actually am looking forward to seeing which teams and which engines coax the most speed during the Month of May. Adds a bit of the old mystery and drama back into it!
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