My kart is faster than every racing series in the world because today I turned a lap at darn near 50mph.
Translation: this thread is stupid. Fascinating, but stupid.
My kart is faster than every racing series in the world because today I turned a lap at darn near 50mph.
Translation: this thread is stupid. Fascinating, but stupid.
I'm looking at the entire series of races as a whole, not on a track-by-track basis like you want to think. INDYCAR chooses to run on tracks that produce lap speeds that are slower than the lap speeds of the tracks that NASCAR chooses to run, therefore it is not irrational to compare the different tracks. Indycars are much faster than Cup cars, but because of the tracks that they choose to race at, the overall speeds at which they compete are slower than NASCAR's series of races. It ain't rocket science, it doesn't require any more context. It is what it is. Until INDYCAR changes the mix of tracks that comprise the series they will continue to have the slower overall product.Originally Posted by Turn13
Indycars are faster in head-to-head competition with Cup cars, but the INDYCAR series of races as a whole are run at slower speeds than the NASCAR series of races.
Oh, goody... just average all the average laps into one big lump then, THAT will be informative
What do you think is the matter with simply comparing the lap speeds to the track record?
Simple. One common standard. Doesn't ignore context. Actually measures "faster".
"Each day well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness and every tomorrow a vision of hope. Look well therefore to this one day for it, and it alone, is life"
~ Sanskrit poem attributed to Kalidasa, "Salutation to the Dawn"
Brian's Wish
What is the matter with presenting the actual speed the series' perform at to determine which is faster?Whenever I say faster is faster it means what it says.Actually measures "faster".
Whenever you say 'faster' is faster it means that 'faster' is actually slower.
NASCAR race average at Bristol: 93.037 mphWhat is the matter with presenting the actual speed the series' perform at to determine which is faster?
NASCAR race average at Texas: 160.577 mph
Please explain the large discrepancy in the series performance.
new sig pending
I'll let you solve this one on your own. I have faith in your ability to do it.
I finally realized why you treat us with such disdain and condescension, PP. You just don't know who you're dealing with here.
For example, I should probably be listed as one of the strongest men in the world. Strong men, of course, are often ranked by how much weight they can lift. Poundage. I have deadlifted 1200 pounds, putting me into the world's strongest category.
Of course, I accomplished this task by lifting 60 pounds on 20 different occasions, but that's just context. Fact is, I lifted it, and as far as I know the other top ten lifters were asleep at the time.
But 1200 > 0.
You might say, "but T13, you only lifted 5% of the all-time record". Doesn't matter. This is PP's logic - you can't touch it : )_ <<-- drooling smiley
You might notice that I am never stronger head-to-head, nor do I ever set the record. But I do lift less weight more frequently, and that's what counts. I can't help it if the competition chooses to do something else that day
Looking forward to ensuing jabberwocky excuses and insufferable context
See any parallels to your "Cup=faster series" arguments, PP?
Sorry, I don't read Jabberwocky. You, OTOH, sure do write a lot of it, don't you?
It has been solved for you a number of times. Regardless of which cars or series are 'faster', medium/large ovals have higher lap speeds than do short ovals....or road/street courses.
Too bad I don't have the same faith in your ability to understand the division by zero in your 'who races faster' equations.
Nothing, as long as one presents actual speeds in comparable conditions.What is the matter with presenting the actual speed the series' perform at to determine which is faster?
Indycars are faster than Nascars on any given track, but NASCAR (as a series) runs higher-average speeds over the course of their season than the Indycar Series (though the same would not be true with respect to IRL version 1).
Can we now put this silly thread to bed?
Lose the mega-downforce and let's separate the men from the boys!
Sure. All I wanted to do was remind people that IndyCars are faster - that they are able to be faster on every track - than the other series this season
It's part of the appeal, to me, and something I'd like to share with those who may be less aware of what it means.
I'd bet you pored over it, looking for something to exploit
Nah, you give me enough when you speak in English.I'd bet you pored over it, looking for something to exploit
'160mph is 'faster' than 180mph' is a classic that only you agree with.
Lots of things sound funny when taken out of context. Your argument fails in or out
What context makes 160mph faster than 180mph?Lots of things sound funny when taken out of context. Your argument fails in or out
No need for argument. No need for questions in your response. Just lay out a factual case for 160mph being faster than 180mph.
Yet you are claiming that the 150mph at RIR in a Cup car is faster than the 190mph is in an IndyCar at SP.
When 160 is a greater percentage of the record. When 160 is too fast for conditions, and 180 isn't.
160 on the Pikes Peak Hill Climb is too fast. 180 at Indy is too slow. Too fast is faster than too slow
I'm sorry, but how can 160mph be a greater percentage of a record than 180mph?If 160mph is too fast for conditions, 180mph is faster than too fast.When 160 is too fast for conditions, and 180 isn't.
'Too fast' does not address the issue, but if 160mph is too fast then 180mph would be faster than too fast.160 on the Pikes Peak Hill Climb is too fast.'Too slow' avoids the issue, as well. But if 180mph is too slow then 160mph is slower than too slow.180 at Indy is too slow.180mph is faster than 160mph when using your examples.Too fast is faster than too slow
I'll ask again: What context makes 160mph faster than 180mph?
No, I'm not.
I'm claiming that the lap speed for NASCAR at RIR will be faster than the lap speed for INDYCAR at Sao Paulo.
What makes lap speed the definitive standard for "faster"? Especially when you are comparing different tracks, different lengths, etc.?
Because the records, like the tracks, are different - that's how
In this case, faster or slower is relative to the record of whatever speed is the highest attained.
Going 160 on a 150 mph track is racing faster than going 180 on a 240 mph track - it takes more capability to do it. Maybe not going faster, because 180 > 160, but racing faster, because racing is a contest - sometimes against other cars, but always against the odds, the environment, physics, and the record - against the maximum potential of the fastest possible effort. Going faster or slower relative to the maximum speed possible.
Sounds like jabberwocky to me'Too fast' does not address the issue, but if 160mph is too fast then 180mph would be faster than too fast. 'Too slow' avoids the issue, as well. But if 180mph is too slow then 160mph is slower than too slow. 180mph is faster than 160mph when using your examples.
When the definition of faster is relative to top speeds attainable among different tracks.I'll ask again: What context makes 160mph faster than 180mph?
Last edited by Turn13; 04-26-2012 at 01:08 PM.
The previous post explains why we are on page 41.
160mph is slower than 180mph in any context.
You don't think there's any significance or value in being closer or farther from the record?
Ohhh... yet 190 is faster than 150.
Therefore, the IndyCars are faster this weekend by your criteria.
And 190 is faster than 150 in any context.
Two standards here (so far
There could be others within the definition of "faster" - quickest acceleration, highest trap speed, etc.
Which is the most useful or relevant?
Which ones predict performance (speed) on a given track, or, say, a new track? Which ones indicate which has the faster cars? Which ones make useful comparisons? For fans of "speed", which is more important - relative speed, or absolute speed? Highest speed, or most frequent or constant speed?
INDYCARs will have a lap speed of 190mph in Sao Paulo this weekend? I doubt it. More like 110-112mph.
You did until I pointed out that NASCAR will be closer to the record at Indianapolis Motor Speedway for that condition, that track, that car than INDYCAR will be for that condition, that track, that car.
Last week you believed 100% in that comparison. This week you don't. So if you don't put any significance in it, why should I?
On Sunday INDYCAR will be lapping the track at 112mph while NASCAR will be lapping in the 130mph range.
Don't you think that 130mph is faster than 112mph?
Which one is reported to the fans in Monday's newspaper? Why do you think that is?
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