Enjoy both days at the racesOriginally Posted by PenelopePitstop
I was invited to attend my first NASCAR Cup race this morning - at Martinsville, the slowest oval course on the Cup schedule.
Coupled with my only Indycar race of the season, the Indy 500, I'm now completely confused as to which will be the faster of the two. ... Turn13, can you explain?Using your methodology, Indy is faster. Using mine, IndyCars would be faster on both
"Each day well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness and every tomorrow a vision of hope. Look well therefore to this one day for it, and it alone, is life"
~ Sanskrit poem attributed to Kalidasa, "Salutation to the Dawn"
Brian's Wish
Using your methodology, I'll need to factor in the degrees of banking, the radius of the turns and the rubber compound of the tires. Martinsville might just produce the fastest racing of them all in your world.Enjoy both days at the races
Since you finally agree that 56>55 then all of your questions have been answered: faster is faster no matter the situation. Most weekends that will be NASCAR.
Unless the IndyCars were faster, eh?
I guess your favorite car is a DODGE
In the context of racing cars, is 55 mph too fast for a flat, 90-degree downtown street corner with a radius of <75' ? Is 55 mph too slow for a superelevated highway curve with a radius of 27,000'?
Or put another way: Would you be impressed with a vehicle that could do the former? Would you think that the latter is a good example of performance?
Surely it can't hurt you to directly respond to two such straight-forward questions, as I have to all of yours.
No.
Yes.Or put another way: Would you be impressed with a vehicle that could do the former? Would you think that the latter is a good example of performance?
You have?Surely it can't hurt you to directly respond to two such straight-forward questions, as I have to all of yours.
There's no confusion, only tortured logic for the purpose or arguing for arguing's sake. Were you on CART's case when they were claiming to be the "fastest racing on the planet"? They were going mighty slow around the hairpins the very same year that DeFerran ran 242 (or whatever number he hit) at Fontana.
Are you saying that CART was inaccurate when using that slogan? Are you saying thay were not faster?
some days they were slower, some days they were not. But the overwhelming preponderance of city street courses on the Indycar schedule this year indicated a much slower season of racing from them. NASCAR races will mostly be faster.
Huh? I thought you demanded that we use turn radius and banking angles to determine the faster cars.
I'm not sure why you would infer that from anything I posted. My opinion is that both CART and IndyCar were correct. I think that CART actually trademarked the "fastest racing on the planet" deal, if I'm not mistaken.
Regardless, either way it is minimally debatable. Therefore, touting that in their marketing efforts seems like a pretty obvious approach. If someone gets bent out of shape because of that, IMO they need to get a life. Fast.
6 out of 16 races does not amount to an "overwhelming preponderance." Odd that you would resort to exaggerating considering the obsession you seem to have with the accuracy of a marketing slogan.
What type of course will Indycar most often be racing on this season?6 out of 16 races does not amount to an "overwhelming preponderance." Odd that you would resort to exaggerating considering the obsession you seem to have with the accuracy of a marketing slogan.
What?
How slow will they be racing on those weekends?
That slow?
How many weekends will they be racing faster than NASCAR this season?
That few?
Excuse me, but one of those "NASCAR is racing" weeks is on the air right now.
See you in St. Pete.
Good timing, Penelope. They are really cooking around the track now, aren't they?
Anyway Penelope, you've convinced me. IndyCar claiming to be fastest is a great affront to everyone, everywhere. Truly vile and reprehensible.
But I'm more pissed off at Disneyland for claiming to be the "Happiest Place on Earth." That's worse. There is an overwhelming preponderance of happiness elsewhere. Join me Penelope, Disney must be stopped.
The Daytona 2.5.
Yes, but the series that is faster on those same physical criteria is the faster series. IndyCar would be faster at Martinsville than is Cup, so IndyCar is faster.
Faster is faster, just like you said
To the question 'is 55 mph too fast for a flat, 90-degree downtown street corner with a radius of <75' ? you responded "No". To the question' is 55 mph too slow for a superelevated highway curve with a radius of 27,000', you also responded "No".
You also said yes, that you would you think that the latter is a good example of performance.
Why did you have to concede to these crazy, contradictory examples? Because to not do so would be to concede that sometimes 55 mph is pretty darn fast for conditions, and sometimes that same 55 mph veocity is pretty darn slow for conditions - that "faster" and "slower" as a measure of performance in racing is relative to conditions - something everyone involved with motor vehicles and motorsports would recognize as common sense, but a premise you have denied repeatedly here.
Thank you for finally allowing this ridiculous evasion to ceaseIf I have left any of your questions unanswered, I apologize for the omission. Please feel free to ask them again.
Daytona 500 - 140.256mph
St. Petersburg - 4 weeks away
I answered your questions with nonsense answers which you jumped all over to analyze. You did not disappoint.IndyCar would be faster at Martinsville than is Cup, so IndyCar is faster.
Faster is faster, just like you said
To the question 'is 55 mph too fast for a flat, 90-degree downtown street corner with a radius of <75' ? you responded "No". To the question' is 55 mph too slow for a superelevated highway curve with a radius of 27,000', you also responded "No".
You also said yes, that you would you think that the latter is a good example of performance.
Why did you have to concede to these crazy, contradictory examples? Because to not do so would be to concede that sometimes 55 mph is pretty darn fast for conditions, and sometimes that same 55 mph veocity is pretty darn slow for conditions - that "faster" and "slower" as a measure of performance in racing is relative to conditions - something everyone involved with motor vehicles and motorsports would recognize as common sense, but a premise you have denied repeatedly here.
Thank you for finally allowing this ridiculous evasion to cease
I believe that a 140.256mph race is faster than any race Indycar will hold until late May. I'm sure you'll agree. Either that or you'll babble nonsense for three months explaining why 140.256mph is not really as fast as 82mph at St. Petersburg.
Faster on race day is faster on race day. You can tell us all about it in May.
140.256 mph is slower than 194.738 mph, right?
So that means that NASCAR is slower than NASACAR, right?
Or am I missing something?
new sig pending
which daytona 500?
Yes, unless Turn13 is involved.
Both races were NASCAR races. Really for the purpose of this thread we should only count the points-paying races.So that means that NASCAR is slower than NASACAR, right?
Or am I missing something?
NASCAR has held one race at 140.256mph this year and Indycar has held 0 races this year.
...this year
I'm sure you are confused about the official stat of average speed for last night's race. Time spent under the red does not count in figuring average speed. True for Indycar as well.
Feel free to try again, then. They are pretty simple questions, that require nothing more than a "yes" or "no" in response. That would seem to be much more conservative of your time and effort here
What in particular in my response struck you as overly analytical or as nonsense? Seems the only nonsense has been introduced by you, as your response above admits.
Interested to hear you explain how something that is "too fast" is somehow slower than something that is "too slow"
you shouldn't be so sure of things that may or may not confuse me
for clarification here is something i AM confused about: your continued involvement in this thread when you have been proven ridiculously wrong time and time again
nascar has held "one" race this year?
i thought you told us they held a race earlier this month that averaged 190+mph. but now you only want to count "points paying" races.
see, there is something else i am confused about now too.
Probably because the 194 got compared to a 210 for IndyCar.
Anybody got any trap speeds from Infinenon?
Why? Are you looking to compare Indycar against the much faster racing series that officially uses trap speeds?Anybody got any trap speeds from Infinenon?
except the 194.738 mph I referred to was the pole speed for the Daytona 500.Both races were NASCAR races.
Why not?
You ready to answer yes or not to those exceedingly simple questions yet?
Yes.
Or no.
Well than you knew that you were comparing two different things. Pole speed, race average speed or fastest race lap are all valid methods of comparing the two series on race weekends because they are all official race stats used by both series. Turn13 doesn't want to use official stats because they offically support my claim.
He does wish to use unofficial trap speeds and practice speeds as acceptable criteria, though.
I don't care what stats you use. Knock yourself out like Donna Quixote
It's your methodology that is contrived to fit the narrow premise.
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