SamC and Billy Chin diss the IndyCar Super Bowl connection

**SamC** · 01-28-2012 09:01 AM

How much impact did having the Super Bowl last year in Dallas have in encouraging people to take more notice of the Dallas Stars?
How much impact did the year before relative to the PGA at Doral?
The year before relative to Tampa Bay Downs?
The year before that relative to Phoenix NASCAR?

The answer, of course, is zero point zero zero.

**Turn13** · 01-28-2012 09:12 AM

Yeah, run it down Sam. That's what you're good at

**Billy Chin** · 01-28-2012 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by skypigeon

How's this for a challenge, ye naysayers: what negative impact will the Super Bowl in Indy have on INDYCAR?

Any positive impact will be negligible, though I can't imagine why anyone would suggest that anything negative would come from it. Indycar isn't on the radar of anyone attending the Super Bowl, so it's really a non-event.

**doitagain** · 01-28-2012 03:13 PM

Way to go, pige

**Billy Chin** · 01-28-2012 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by Turn13

Yeah, run it down Sam. That's what you're good at

Neither of us 'ran it down', but rather gave our honest opinions on the matter. There was no criticism of the series from me at all. Sad and telling that a thread asking for opinions was nonetheless censured for opinions that didn't fit an "acceptable" view.

**skypigeon** · 01-28-2012 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by doitagain

Way to go, pige

Hey, you needed something to split out this weekend...

**Ernest Miller** · 01-28-2012 10:19 PM

Why would anyone think it would have an effect on the 500 either way? Ernest

**SamC** · 01-29-2012 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by Billy Chin

Neither of us 'ran it down', but rather gave our honest opinions on the matter. There was no criticism of the series from me at all. Sad and telling that a thread asking for opinions was nonetheless censured for opinions that didn't fit an "acceptable" view.

Dittos.

The question was silly.

So, in your world, someone just thinks up a proposition that this or that is "good for the series" and then every user on the board is supposed to hit "agree" no matter how silly the proposition. The only people that demand unanamous unanalitical agreement that I know of live in Peyouyang and Havana.

Pointing out the proposition (a football game between two teams not named Indianapolis wll be played on a field pained to the same generic NFL Super Bowl spec with Indianapolis mentioned maybe 20 times during the actual broadcast, mostly in the "here we are back in Indianapolis" after a commercial break vein, will have A N Y impact on a car race held almost 10 miles away almost four months later) is fundamentally silly and we, and others pointed it out.

Since that is not good enough for you, here goes:

Let us assume that "Indianapolis = Indy Car racing" is the mindset of most people. I'm not willing to concede that, but lets go with it.

So, the Super Bowl has been held in Los Angeles, Miami, New Orleans, Houston, Detroit, Tampa, San Francisco, San Diego, Minneapolis, Atlanta, Jacksonville, Phoenix, and Dallas.

So, just for the sake of argument, let make a list of what each city "equals" in terms of discressionary income spending in the way Indy = Indy Car. I'm willing to go with movies, gated retirement complexes, Voodoo, oil, US cars, cigars, probably shouldn't say, the Navy, snow, peaches, imported cars, fake colleges, and BBQ. Make your own substitutions if you wish.

Now lets make a list of struggling or semi-stuggling non-NFL sports in each metro. I can go with the Clippers, the Marlins, the University of New Orleans basketball team, Eastern Michigan football, the Rays, the A's, Del Mar, the Timberwolves, the Thrashers, PGA National, PGA West, and the Stars. Again make your own substitutions as you wil.

The proposition that a Super Bowl would have any effect on either list is so fundamentally silly as to not be worth the trouble to explore. And people can and should give OPINIONS on that proposition on boards dedicated to such subjects.

No one has "dissed" Indy Car. Just the silly idea that people are suddenly going to think of it any differently because a Super Bowl (and outside Indiana most people will have to look up where the Super Bowl was in 2012 five years from now, because it will just fade into memory) was played in the same city.

**Turn13** · 01-29-2012 10:11 AM

Somehow I think if IndyCar had done nothing, some of the same people would be dissing them for that.

Nahhh... they wouldn't do that...

**Billy Chin** · 01-29-2012 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Turn13

Somehow I think if IndyCar had done nothing, some of the same people would be dissing them for that.

Nahhh... they wouldn't do that...

Of course, you're welcome to tell us how the series will benefit and, more to the point, how such benefits will be measured. Thanks.

**SamC** · 01-29-2012 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Billy Chin

Of course, you're welcome to tell us how the series will benefit and, more to the point, how such benefits will be measured. Thanks.

Dittos.

Please feel free to cite historical examples of previous Super Bowls and their effects on unrelated sports events held in the same area, such as the handle at Del Mar in the fall after a San Diego Super Bowl. Please also note the surveyed opinions of people outside Indiana and how much having a football game held in Indiana has change their perceptions of a car race also held in Indiana. You can also cover the effect that the NCAA Final Four being held in Indiana had on the car race,

Also you might cover how success of Notre Dame, Purdue, or IU in football and basketball has boosted the car race. For example, should Purdue go to the Rose Bowl and IU win the Final Four, exactly how much more would the rating or live gate for the 500, or on Long Beach or whatever race you care to cite. You might also want to cover the measurable effects of a school from Alabama winning the last three national championships has had on Talladega, or the effects of a Canadians Stanley Cup might have on the Canadian Grand Prix, or perhaps how a good year out of the Longhorns might affect the USGP.

I mean, when I see a football game, the first thing that comes to my mind is "what other sports are held in that same state?"

The concept is silly.

**skypigeon** · 01-29-2012 01:37 PM

Well, hold on. Seeing there are some--not necessarily either of you, but some--who claim for the "average" fan the party is as important if not more so than the actual event, and if ever there was an excuse to party it's hosting a Super Bowl, and if the large crowds from out of state who inevitably are just there for the party can be exposed to what a huge party the Indianapolis 500 is, how does at least the 500 not not benefit from that?

**Indyknut** · 01-29-2012 01:51 PM

I'm thinking they're going to say .... "what measurable positive effects will the super bowl have"...

there probably aren't any.

Then again, what positive effects could be seen if the series actually ADVERTISED ITSELF during the game with some of those witty, watercooler commercials that many, many folks tune into the super bowl to watch? I'm betting that would be measurable.

**Jim Wilke** · 01-29-2012 02:05 PM

The Pro Bowl will be played today in Hawaii. I'm sure no viewers will think, 'Boy, that looks like a place I might want to visit.'

**skypigeon** · 01-29-2012 02:12 PM

Seems the IMS Museum is getting race-weekend crowds lately. Wonder why.

**Billy Chin** · 01-29-2012 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by skypigeon

Well, hold on. Seeing there are some--not necessarily either of you, but some--who claim for the "average" fan the party is as important if not more so than the actual event, and if ever there was an excuse to party it's hosting a Super Bowl, and if the large crowds from out of state who inevitably are just there for the party can be exposed to what a huge party the Indianapolis 500 is, how does at least the 500 not not benefit from that?

How will fans be exposed to what a large party the Indy 500 is without actually attending the Indy 500? For people who have seen the race on television, I tell them that the only way to really appreciate it is to actually go. Not sure why a football game in early February suddenly changes that dynamic.

**Billy Chin** · 01-29-2012 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by skypigeon

Seems the IMS Museum is getting race-weekend crowds lately. Wonder why.

So you're suggesting that people are already coming into Indianapolis a full week ahead of the Super Bowl and heading out to the museum? Interesting. Even the warm weather Super Bowl cities typically get the vast majority of incoming fans in the few days prior to the game. Who knew Indy would have such a big inflow of guests so far in advance.

**Billy Chin** · 01-29-2012 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by Jim Wilke

The Pro Bowl will be played today in Hawaii. I'm sure no viewers will think, 'Boy, that looks like a place I might want to visit.'

How many vacationers do you think will now consider Indianapolis as a prime destination for their next family holiday, a la Hawaii?

**SamC** · 01-29-2012 07:30 PM

Hey the NHL All-Star Game was just finished in Ottawa.

The VERY FIRST thing that it brought to mind to me was that I simply cannot wait for the Ottawa Renegades to restart in 2013 and to see some horse racing at Rideau Carlton. I mean, the VERY FIRST thing that comes to mind when a national sporting event comes to a place, to me, is what other events are held there.

Silly.

**Jim Wilke** · 01-29-2012 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by Billy Chin

How many vacationers do you think will now consider Indianapolis as a prime destination for their next family holiday, a la Hawaii?

111 million Americans watched the Super Bowl last year, millions more overseas and the audience this year will be even bigger. Anyone who thinks this will have no impact is just being obstinate.

'Hey, sweetie, we've talked about going to the Indy 500 for years but we always wait too late. I just saw an overhead view of the track while watching the Super Bowl; let's make plans right now.'

Will it bring hundreds of thousands of new fans? Of course not. But it will bring some.

**Billy Chin** · 01-29-2012 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by Jim Wilke

111 million Americans watched the Super Bowl last year, millions more overseas and the audience this year will be even bigger. Anyone who thinks this will have no impact is just being obstinate.

'Hey, sweetie, we've talked about going to the Indy 500 for years but we always wait too late. I just saw an overhead view of the track while watching the Super Bowl; let's make plans right now.'

Will it bring hundreds of thousands of new fans? Of course not. But it will bring some.

The title of the thread wondered about the impact on the series, rather than the Indy 500. But, if the topic is going to (understandably) narrow, I can't disagree that there might be a few people who come to or watch the Super Bowl who then choose to come back for the race. I would submit that the likelihood of that happening would be much greater if someone were to actually watch the race on television and then get the itch to go. Again, will it make someone buy tickets for St. Pete or Fontana? That seems wishful. And your notion that the game will suddenly attract tourists to Indy seems similarly unrealistic, but we'll see.

Hopefully, someone will have access to data that demonstrates the impact to the race and the series.

**Disciple** · 01-29-2012 08:45 PM

Economic impact to central Indiana from the Indianapolis 500: Around $350 million. Every year. (Throw in the Brickyard 400 and MotoGP and you've got another Super Bowl-level economic impact every year).

Economic impact to central Indiana from the OTO Super Bowl: Around $350 million. Once.

Those dismissing the value of cross promotion of IMS at the Super Bowl:

-Do not understand enough about the Indianapolis 500 or IMS to comment with any degree of intelligence.
-Seem intent on denigrating the institution, even if it's a reach.

-The Notices The Green Hue of Those So Obsessed Disciple of INDYCAR

**Turn13** · 01-29-2012 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by Billy Chin

Hopefully, someone will have access to data that demonstrates the impact to the race and the series.

People are talking about the cars, in a positive way. This is happening not just in Indy, but, for example, many of the forums in other NFL towns dedicated to their own teams are taking positive note. News organizations across the country are using it as a unique lead-in with appeal to their markets. Not sure it's a measurable impact, but in general it's a lot of notoriety in a good way. Plus it's all over the social media.

http://arrowheadaddict.com/2012/01/2...-chiefs-style/
Kansas City Chiefs

http://www.autoweek.com/article/2012...WS01/120129917
Autoweek

http://www.nowpublic.com/culture/ind...r-bowl-display
Los Angeles

http://www.gowaynecounty.com/blog/ri...-bowl-weekend/
Richmond, IN

http://www.examiner.com/historic-des...012-super-bowl
Wherever this is

http://www.wwlp.com/dpp/sports/super...tions-revealed
Chicopee, Ma

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS_7P4VEy5c
Youtube

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/2...rts/701209775/
Indy cars drive home NFL connection (Chicago)

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ycn-10878501
Super Bowl XLVI Super Cars Locations Announced

http://my.speedtv.com/go/thread/view...t_id=515581343
33 Super Bowl Indy cars

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...2171326&type=1
NFL Indy cars taken by my friend Josh Morris

http://www.seahawkshuddle.com/thread...per-bowl.7058/
Seahawks IndyCar at the Super Bowl - Sehawks Huddle

http://www.carolinahuddle.com/forum/...superbowl.html
Panthers indy car at superbowl - Carolina Huddle

http://www.chacha.com/question/for-s...d-nfl-temas-be
For Super Bowl 2012, Where will the 33 Indy Car Painted for Nfl teams be?

http://www.chiefscoalition.com/Chief...efs-style.html
Super Bowl Indy Cars: KC Chiefs Style

http://www.patriots.com/media-center...a-89e4b9cb4c92
Opening shots from Indy - Patriots.com

Source: http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/griz...#ixzz1kslfWwLd
At Least the Bears Car Will Go to the Super Bowl - NBC Chicago

http://superbowl.tweetmeme.com/page/4
#SuperBowl #IndyCar

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ycn-10884575
General Observations of Super Bowl XLVI Festivities in Indianapolis: Fan Experience

http://www.motorperformance.biz/2012...city-autoweek/
Super Bowl ‘Super Cars’: NFL-liveried Indy cars to dot city – AutoWeek

http://boltbeat.com/2012/01/26/charg...bowl-practice/
Super Bowl Indy Cars - San Diego Chargers

http://wcsi.whiterivernews.com/templ...4429&storyno=2
Indy Cars on Display

http://www.onecrazyfan.com/team.php?teamid=6
Arizona Cardinals

http://www.redgage.com/photos/sheryl...fl-colors.html
IndyCars in NFL Colors

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bradywh...l-83901175@N00
Flickr

https://twitter.com/#!/waskradio/sta...615552/photo/1
Twitter

http://www.indianapolissuperbowl.com...-releases/154/
Super Bowl Press Releases

**nascarnation** · 01-29-2012 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by Jim Wilke

The Pro Bowl will be played today in Hawaii. I'm sure no viewers will think, 'Boy, that looks like a place I might want to visit.'

Didn't it provide a huge boost to the Hawaii Super Prix back in 99?

**Billy Chin** · 01-29-2012 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by Disciple

Economic impact to central Indiana from the Indianapolis 500: Around $350 million. Every year. (Throw in the Brickyard 400 and MotoGP and you've got another Super Bowl-level economic impact every year).

Economic impact to central Indiana from the OTO Super Bowl: Around $350 million. Once.

Those dismissing the value of cross promotion of IMS at the Super Bowl:

-Do not understand enough about the Indianapolis 500 or IMS to comment with any degree of intelligence.
-Seem intent on denigrating the institution, even if it's a reach.

-The Notices The Green Hue of Those So Obsessed Disciple of INDYCAR

Plenty of intelligence, thank you, and it's nothing personal. Unfortunately, no one has been able to make a case that the Indy Super Bowl will have a positive impact on the Indy car series. Would very much like to see an argument supporting it that reflects a degree of intelligence, as you said. In the absence of such an argument, it sure seems like it's a reach.

**Billy Chin** · 01-29-2012 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by Turn13

People are talking about the cars, in a positive way. This is happening not just in Indy, but, for example, many of the forums in other NFL towns dedicated to their own teams are taking positive note. News organizations across the country are using it as a unique lead-in with appeal to their markets. Not sure it's a measurable impact, but in general it's a lot of notoriety in a good way. Plus it's all over the social media.

http://arrowheadaddict.com/2012/01/2...-chiefs-style/
Kansas City Chiefs

http://www.autoweek.com/article/2012...WS01/120129917
Autoweek

http://www.nowpublic.com/culture/ind...r-bowl-display
Los Angeles

http://www.gowaynecounty.com/blog/ri...-bowl-weekend/
Richmond, IN

http://www.examiner.com/historic-des...012-super-bowl
Wherever this is

http://www.wwlp.com/dpp/sports/super...tions-revealed
Chicopee, Ma

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS_7P4VEy5c
Youtube

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/2...rts/701209775/
Indy cars drive home NFL connection (Chicago)

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ycn-10878501
Super Bowl XLVI Super Cars Locations Announced

http://my.speedtv.com/go/thread/view...t_id=515581343
33 Super Bowl Indy cars

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...2171326&type=1
NFL Indy cars taken by my friend Josh Morris

http://www.seahawkshuddle.com/thread...per-bowl.7058/
Seahawks IndyCar at the Super Bowl - Sehawks Huddle

http://www.carolinahuddle.com/forum/...superbowl.html
Panthers indy car at superbowl - Carolina Huddle

http://www.chacha.com/question/for-s...d-nfl-temas-be
For Super Bowl 2012, Where will the 33 Indy Car Painted for Nfl teams be?

http://www.chiefscoalition.com/Chief...efs-style.html
Super Bowl Indy Cars: KC Chiefs Style

http://www.patriots.com/media-center...a-89e4b9cb4c92
Opening shots from Indy - Patriots.com

Source: http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/griz...#ixzz1kslfWwLd
At Least the Bears Car Will Go to the Super Bowl - NBC Chicago

http://superbowl.tweetmeme.com/page/4
#SuperBowl #IndyCar

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ycn-10884575
General Observations of Super Bowl XLVI Festivities in Indianapolis: Fan Experience

http://www.motorperformance.biz/2012...city-autoweek/
Super Bowl ‘Super Cars’: NFL-liveried Indy cars to dot city – AutoWeek

http://boltbeat.com/2012/01/26/charg...bowl-practice/
Super Bowl Indy Cars - San Diego Chargers

http://wcsi.whiterivernews.com/templ...4429&storyno=2
Indy Cars on Display

http://www.onecrazyfan.com/team.php?teamid=6
Arizona Cardinals

http://www.redgage.com/photos/sheryl...fl-colors.html
IndyCars in NFL Colors

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bradywh...l-83901175@N00
Flickr

https://twitter.com/#!/waskradio/sta...615552/photo/1
Twitter

http://www.indianapolissuperbowl.com...-releases/154/
Super Bowl Press Releases

In what ways will the series be collecting and analyzing data in an effort to demonstrate the link between the game and the measurable impact to the series (attendance, ratings, sponsorship, and memorabilia sales)? What estimates do you have concerning the likely increases in each of those categories? Thanks.

**Turn13** · 01-29-2012 09:03 PM

Beats me, dude. All I know is that at some point, positive mentions in the press generate goodwill, and word-of-mouth personal endorsements are the most effective form of promotion. If any visitors have a positive experience at the Super Bowl, then some percentage of them will be more likely to return for something else. And satisfied customers typically tell six other people about their experience, or something like that

Of course, it ain't over 'til it's over, so there's possible future negativity you can hope for

**Billy Chin** · 01-29-2012 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by Turn13

Beats me, dude. All I know is that at some point, positive mentions in the press generate goodwill, and word-of-mouth personal endorsements are the most effective form of promotion. If any visitors have a positive experience at the Super Bowl, then some percentage of them will be more likely to return for something else. And satisfied customers typically tell six other people about their experience, or something like that

Of course, it ain't over 'til it's over, so there's possible future negativity you can hope for

So, "beats me, dude" is the best, most detailed answer you can provide? And you go further by ridiculously alleging that I'm hoping for something negative, even as you acknowledge that you can't prove or even conceive of how you would prove that which you have asserted? Interesting, to say the least.