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Thread: Barrichello = Bad Business

  1. #31
    Unregistered User pb's Avatar
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    Say what you want about Rubens but at least he has a following somewhere on planet earth. That in and of itself makes him more appealing than someone who has only access to a check book.
    No man can cause more grief than that one clinging blindly to the vices of his ancestors. - William Faulker

  2. #32
    Registered User uncommonsense52's Avatar
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    Dear God! A racecar driver with skill wants to race our cars!

    Time to panic!

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by doitagain View Post
    Can he compete or not?
    I don't know how fast he'd be, but his input for the first season or two with this new chassis would be invaluable to some teams.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Disciple View Post
    I am.

    Versus 'debacle?' LOL. That deal was years ahead of its time.


    -The Opinions Of Others May Vary Disciple of INDYCAR

  5. #35
    Insider Jim Wilke's Avatar
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    I wonder what all the experts will say when Jacques Villenueve shows up in a Truck again.

  6. #36
    Insider Jim Wilke's Avatar
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    From God's lips;

    The probable association between Jacques Villeneuve and Go Canada Racing, as reported by Le Journal de Montreal in August, has resurfaced. Villeneuve could run a dozen races (and maybe more) this year in the Nationwide Series driving a car owned by Toronto businessman Steve Meehan. Meehan declined to elaborate on the issue, while acknowledging that he had discussed with Villeneuve in recent weeks. Andrew Ranger will not drive for the team at Daytona, contrary to earlier reports. His debut will take place two weeks later at Las Vegas and possibly at Phoenix, the second week of the season. David Ragan, who has six years experience in Sprint Cup, wll take over the wheel of the Go Canada Ford at Daytona. In addition, the team has acquired a new Dodge Challenger that will be used at Phoenix

  7. #37
    Is Bat Boy KevMcNJ's Avatar
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    Is this better or worse than some 3rd tier Cup team dragging Terry Labonte off the golf course because he has a Past Champions Provosional?
    I was racing when racing wasnt cool

  8. #38
    Unregistered User pb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevMcNJ View Post
    Is this better or worse than some 3rd tier Cup team dragging Terry Labonte off the golf course because he has a Past Champions Provosional?
    Let's go with better. Next question.

  9. #39
    Is Bat Boy KevMcNJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pb View Post
    Let's go with better. Next question.
    Only half credit
    You didnt show all work

    Next question is if Trackforum was around in 1993 how long would it have been before someone claimed that Nigel Mansell showing up was a bad thing since it proved that Indy was just a dumping ground for washed up F1 jockeys ?

  10. #40
    Unregistered User pb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevMcNJ View Post
    Only half credit
    You didnt show all work

    Next question is if Trackforum was around in 1993 how long would it have been before someone claimed that Nigel Mansell showing up was a bad thing since it proved that Indy was just a dumping ground for washed up F1 jockeys ?
    Tough, but fair.

    1993...the world was less cynical then, so I'll say a full day.

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by KevMcNJ View Post
    Next question is if Trackforum was around in 1993 how long would it have been before someone claimed that Nigel Mansell showing up was a bad thing since it proved that Indy was just a dumping ground for washed up F1 jockeys ?
    Trackforum wasn't needed for that response - Tony George's reaction to Mansell's popular appearance was to fix Indycars. Good job, Tony.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disciple View Post
    While we're at it perhaps we should try to recruit Adrian Sutil. He's not afraid to slit the throat of an owner with a broken wine glass or call an actual champion a coward publicly. I'd like to see more of that in Indy Car.

    -The Seems Oddly Amusing Disciple of INDYCAR
    And you thought you were being funny, eh D? Not that it WILL happen, but it seems plausible now.
    IndyCar '13: TV Ratings stink. The product does not. How about we enjoy it?

  13. #43
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    You're right. Lets rev up the fan base with such American stars such as Dr. Miller and Marty Roth.

    Talent, or an all 'Merican field?

    I'll take a talented field, any day.

    And then, we can get American TALENT in there. One thing you can say about the Americans in Indycar- they all deserve to be there. They're all good.

    God forbid a talented driver with a big fanbase wants to come and lend our series eyeballs and credibility.

    Oh, foreign attention and credibility doesn't count, my bad.

    Growing the series at home is important. But growing it abroad makes inroads for opportunities to grow the series at home. Buzz is buzz, no matter where it is. If Rubens running in the series lends it credibility and makes it looks like a series worth shooting for and that catches the eye of the young American karter who is looking for a place to graduate to, or for a company that wants to sponsor an American driver, is it a worthwhile endeavor?

    A resounding, hell yes. Cheer up. Your American drivers now have an international star to test their mettle against.
    "Unfortunately, the business types who now permeate the sport don't share this same gut centered devotion. I can only hope that the truly addicted will prevail, and that the original spirit of open wheel competition will somehow manage to survive and prosper into the future."
    -Dr. Stephen Olvey

  14. #44
    cannot believe some do not want a world class driver in this field...

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by BizzyV View Post
    You're right. Lets rev up the fan base with such American stars such as Dr. Miller and Marty Roth.

    Talent, or an all 'Merican field?

    I'll take a talented field, any day.

    And then, we can get American TALENT in there. One thing you can say about the Americans in Indycar- they all deserve to be there. They're all good.

    God forbid a talented driver with a big fanbase wants to come and lend our series eyeballs and credibility.

    Oh, foreign attention and credibility doesn't count, my bad.

    Growing the series at home is important. But growing it abroad makes inroads for opportunities to grow the series at home. Buzz is buzz, no matter where it is. If Rubens running in the series lends it credibility and makes it looks like a series worth shooting for and that catches the eye of the young American karter who is looking for a place to graduate to, or for a company that wants to sponsor an American driver, is it a worthwhile endeavor?

    A resounding, hell yes. Cheer up. Your American drivers now have an international star to test their mettle against.

    I agree with everything you have to say but lets not get our hopes up. He holds all the cards and has plenty of money.
    I'd rather have 10% of the world interested in the ICS than 50% of US that NASCAR currently has

  16. #46
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    Ikchris = Nonsensical

    I changed your title a tad

    Barrichello is a quality driver with a racing resume that is world class. If he joins IndyCar it will be noticed by the world racing community. Not sure if he will be an addition or a replacement. As an addition I see nothing but pure benefit. But even as a replacement driver I see only benefit, as he will not be replacing a famous or popular driver.

    IndyCar has never been an All American sport. Check your history books Ikchris, the 500 has always been an International Sweepstakes. It has always been about America vs the world, about the yanks taking on all comers, especially talent, like Barrichello, known world wide from his F1 exploits.

    IMO Barrichello is exactly what IndyCar needs. He will generate world wide interest. McLaren is already in the series as an engine electronics supplier. They have expressed interest in possibly creating an Aero kit. Lotus is already in the series as an engine supplier. Hopefully companies like Fiat, Audi, Ferrari (who have already taken a look with the new car) might become involved with IndyCar. With talent like Barrichello coming in, it certainly adds to that likelyhood.

    Barrichello creates a measuring stick for the world racing community (both fans and suppliers) to measure the rest of IndyCar by. I see absolutely no down side to Barrichello coming and I hope it happens.

    I believe IndyCar needs a strong American contingent in the series, but IndyCar should never be All American, nor exclude exceptional talent from anywhere on the planet. I find your comments very nonsensical.
    Tara was the name of our cat.

  17. #47
    Registered User slkornya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BizzyV View Post
    You're right. Lets rev up the fan base with such American stars such as Dr. Miller and Marty Roth.

    Talent, or an all 'Merican field?....
    Not that they'd ever admit to it, but Marty Roth wasn't an American star...unless I didn't get the memo that Ontario is now the 51st state.

    As for the no-talent part, you're spot on there. Perhaps in future references to no-talent, 'Merican hack drivers you could remove the words 'Marty Roth' and insert 'Slick Racin' Gardner'?

    Canada thanks you.


  18. #48
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    Oh, Tara, musn't overreact.

    Nobody's lobbying for 100% Americans.

    You come in with some assumptions ...

    Indycar needs world wide interest ... why is that?

    Oh, yes I know my history--was a big rooter for Jim Clark, for example. Moreso for Dan Gurney. Did YOU know that Tony George's father is listed as having scored Formula One points?

    You assume Lotus is a viable car company--guess again. They sold 320 cars in the UK last year.

    You must assume Indycar is in pretty bad shape if an over-the-hill racer will be its salvation.

    You must assume ANY foreigner adds to the mix. Actually, Indycar hasn't had a significant foreigner since Juan Montoya, a guy who went on to win in Formula One and NASCAR. The current crop is here because they can't.

    Wonder if you can describe the demographic of an American race fan? (Not just you.) NASCAR wasn't going to jump in popularity if Kimi stayed--it wouldn't even notice Rubens. Sorry, but Indycar has to attract NASCAR fans because they are the majority of USA racing fans. Doesn't do that much for the sport in terms of sponsorship and other economic return if somebody in Venezuela is happy because one of their countrymen has an Indycar ride. Or Brazil.

    American fans like American stories best. How's your NASCAR history--did you know that NASCAR's recent 5-time champion grew up in a trailer park? That's an American story.

  19. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by lkchris View Post
    Oh, Tara, musn't overreact.

    Nobody's lobbying for 100% Americans.

    You come in with some assumptions ...

    Indycar needs world wide interest ... why is that?

    Oh, yes I know my history--was a big rooter for Jim Clark, for example. Moreso for Dan Gurney. Did YOU know that Tony George's father is listed as having scored Formula One points?

    You assume Lotus is a viable car company--guess again. They sold 320 cars in the UK last year.

    You must assume Indycar is in pretty bad shape if an over-the-hill racer will be its salvation.

    You must assume ANY foreigner adds to the mix. Actually, Indycar hasn't had a significant foreigner since Juan Montoya, a guy who went on to win in Formula One and NASCAR. The current crop is here because they can't.

    Wonder if you can describe the demographic of an American race fan? (Not just you.) NASCAR wasn't going to jump in popularity if Kimi stayed--it wouldn't even notice Rubens. Sorry, but Indycar has to attract NASCAR fans because they are the majority of USA racing fans. Doesn't do that much for the sport in terms of sponsorship and other economic return if somebody in Venezuela is happy because one of their countrymen has an Indycar ride. Or Brazil.

    American fans like American stories best. How's your NASCAR history--did you know that NASCAR's recent 5-time champion grew up in a trailer park? That's an American story.
    except that you, like many others here, fail or choose not to understand that unlike NASCAR, IndyCar has an international fan base

  20. #50
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    IndyCar has never been an All American sport. Check your history books Ikchris, the 500 has always been an International Sweepstakes.
    This is simply false.

    Check your history books and tell us how "international" the Indy 500 was from the end of WWII to the mid 1970's.

    It was an American racing event. With a FEW TOP SHELF foreign drivers competing, from time-to-time.

    This "Indy has always been a international event" line is pure BS and only repeated by those that are simply ignorant to the history of the event.
    Prime Minister of Gackland

  21. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by houstonracefan View Post
    That unlike NASCAR, IndyCar has an international fan base
    Yes, a puny one. Just like they have a puny American fan base too.

    It would be nice if Indy Cars was popular somewhere. Right now, it isn't.

  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Gack View Post
    This is simply false.

    Check your history books and tell us how "international" the Indy 500 was from the end of WWII to the mid 1970's.

    It was an American racing event. With a FEW TOP SHELF foreign drivers competing, from time-to-time.

    This "Indy has always been a international event" line is pure BS and only repeated by those that are simply ignorant to the history of the event.
    Todd, you would do as the Russian Tsars and simply make the history of the Indy 500 from 1911 to 1941 cease to exist?
    May 30, 1911: The first Indianapolis 500-Mile Race, initially named the "International Sweepstakes," was won by Ray Harroun at an average speed of 74.602 mph.

    From 1911 to 1980, the event was advertised as the "500-mile International Sweepstakes Race". From 1950–1960, the Indianapolis 500 also counted toward the World Drivers' Championship.

    Foreign driver participation? Just check here:
    http://johnsonindy500.trackforum.com...0/foreign.html

    Yes, the period between 1946 and mid 70s saw few 'foreign' drivers. And yes, I'd like to see more US born drivers in the race.
    new sig pending

  23. #53
    Registered User BadazzZ06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by houstonracefan View Post
    except that you, like many others here, fail or choose not to understand that unlike NASCAR, IndyCar has an international fan base
    Uh .... the fans of the NASCAR Canadian Tire Series might disagree with their being no "international" fan base .....

    http://hometracks.nascar.com/races/NCATS

    and the Australian SPEEDTV broadcast both NASCAR and Indycar races. NASCAR is followed in Australia because Marcos Ambrose is very popular in the land down under.

    http://www.foxsports.com.au/motor-sports

    In the UK you can watch not only the NASCAR Cup series ... they also get the Nationwide series.

    http://www.sportspromedia.com/news/m...onwide_rights/

    Sorry to burst your bubble, but NASCAR does have an international fan base. If there wasn't an audience, overseas TV companies wouldn't be paying for the broadcast rights.

  24. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevMcNJ View Post
    ...
    Next question is if Trackforum was around in 1993 how long would it have been before someone claimed that Nigel Mansell showing up was a bad thing since it proved that Indy was just a dumping ground for washed up F1 jockeys ?
    I heard that ALL THE TIME by media hacks back then. How it showed that CART's dreams of being as big league as F1 were a joke, because 'washed up' stars could still shine. How even the Indy 500 was diminished because 'washed up' stars could compete for wins. It was agenda driven.

    I'm a fan of Barrichello (never followed him intently, but I have enjoyed his style and speed when I watch F1) so I welcome him. The man can motor. Even if I wasn't a fan of his, I'd welcome him and feel it was a good thing to have top drivers trying to get in and compete. Even if they fall just outside of the world's top 20 drivers due to a little aging. What if he's only in say, the top 100 drivers? He's still extremely good and will be fast if that's the case.
    Got to watch out for those Libertarians - they want to take over the government and leave everyone alone!

  25. #55
    Insider MoparsRule's Avatar
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    Why would bringing Barrichello onboard be bad business for anyone involved?

  26. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by BadazzZ06 View Post
    Uh .... the fans of the NASCAR Canadian Tire Series might disagree with their being no "international" fan base .....

    http://hometracks.nascar.com/races/NCATS

    and the Australian SPEEDTV broadcast both NASCAR and Indycar races. NASCAR is followed in Australia because Marcos Ambrose is very popular in the land down under.

    http://www.foxsports.com.au/motor-sports

    In the UK you can watch not only the NASCAR Cup series ... they also get the Nationwide series.

    http://www.sportspromedia.com/news/m...onwide_rights/

    Sorry to burst your bubble, but NASCAR does have an international fan base. If there wasn't an audience, overseas TV companies wouldn't be paying for the broadcast rights.
    Every racing series has international interest. Personally thou ours is far more diverse due to the field we have.

  27. #57
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    Barrichello coming out of retirement to race in the ICS isn't bad for business. Unlike most of the foreign-contingent in the ICS, he's proven he's a world-class driver.

    But what is bad for business, is this engine crap that is going on. And yes, its pure crap.

    "Welcome to what a major league series looks and smells like."
    Yes, a "major league series" would stunt its growth and any future team growth by limiting participation. That is a club racing mentality. What has gone on with Sarah Fisher Hartman Racing, in particular, is a complete embarrassment to the sport. And its been going on for months now. At this point, it doesn't even matter if they get an engine lease for the first race or not. The damage to the team has already been done.

    You know who I give a ton of credit in this whole deal? Sarah Fisher. She has said nothing. She has bit her lip for a long time. What she tweeted this afternoon is the 100% truth. They have been ready to go for months and have been held hostage and likely extorted in the end. And why? Because of pure stupidity on the ICS part and backscratching good ole' boy network greed on the engine manufacturers part.

    In a sport with so few American drivers to begin with and so few teams you can actually pull for (without feeling a bit queasy in the process), this should be the poster-child team in this sport. And yet, they've been treated like the red-headed stepchild throughout this whole process.

    And don't give me the crap about "they could have had a LOTUS months ago". BS. You know how many LOTUS engines actually exist right now? 3. Only one engine has actually tested, 5 weeks before the season opener. The only teams actually using the LOTUS, are being PAID to do so. Shank isn't. Fisher wouldn't be, had they taken the deal. And these two small teams can't afford to gamble on the weaker engine, without getting any $$ for it. Not when making the Indy 500 field is so important to the survival of both. And not when you aren't in the Leader's Circle.

    Great, they sign up with LOTUS in January. They still wouldn't have an engine (because they aren't a preferred customer), still couldn't test and would likely be up a crick with no paddle for most of the year and at Indy (where Chevy and Honda will dominate).

    Rubens bad for bizness? Hell no. Read the Pruett article and listen to what IndyBail has to say here. That is what is bad for bizness.

  28. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by lkchris View Post
    Unlike Juan Montoya who came to NASCAR at the peak (or near it) of his Formula One career, it has to be recognized that Rubens will come to Indycar very much at the downside of his.

    What this says to American race fans is that Indycar cares more about itself than it does Amercian racing fans and for sure cares more about foreign drivers as opposed to young, upcoming American drivers.

    Yes, there are Indycar fans who love this, but the reality is there aren't enough of them to sustain the sport. Indycar will go unsponsored as a niche sport.

    No, so many Indycar drivers are those unable to make it in Formula One and perhaps now the move is to get one that did sort of make it but ran his course.

    No question he's a nice guy, a great guy, even, it's just that, again, this is not a positive business decision for Indycar. And, he refuses to run ovals?

    The answer is NOT more, better promotion of the wrong things, the answer is a series that has clear goals in tune with American fans and not so much its disfunctional team owners.

    It's not also about "stealing away" NASCAR fans, it's about getting NASCAR fans also interested in Indycar. Rubens doesn't do that for a nanosecond.
    Afaik Barrichello isn't getting a ride in a fully funded car, but brings sponsorship to the team.

    Obviously it isn't as good as a deal as Carlos Guerrero taking his Herdez money to Dick Simon in 1995 or King Hiro bringing Panasonic $ to Walker in '93, but those wonderfull days are long gone. But hey at least it is another car.

    If the car is fully sponsored i would like to see other drivers before Barrichello, but he is a very good driver and if he brings funds and increase the car count, then i fail to see what is bad about it at all? (Apart from the situation that there aren't 30 cars fully sponsored signing drivers without taking personal sponsorship into account but purely based on driving skills, which we havn't seen in indycar since, well, never).

  29. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by KevMcNJ View Post
    Only half credit
    You didnt show all work

    Next question is if Trackforum was around in 1993 how long would it have been before someone claimed that Nigel Mansell showing up was a bad thing since it proved that Indy was just a dumping ground for washed up F1 jockeys ?
    I can't believe I read this whole thread and it took me to post 39 to see Nigel Mansell mentioned.

  30. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by lkchris View Post
    Indycar needs world wide interest ... why is that?
    Cause they've burned all there state side fans. Besides, last time I checked there are an awful lot of Hispanics in my city, might as well try and draw them in along with the rest of the world while we build a little faith back with our U.S. fans.

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