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Thread: Should Indycar have dirt cars races?

  1. #31
    Registered User Inline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzlor View Post
    Why not bring back the board ovals while we're at it?
    They already have, I believe they are called the cookie cutter 1.5 mile high bank ovals.

  2. #32
    Indy since '66 kevin99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzlor View Post
    Why not bring back the board ovals while we're at it?
    Sometimes you make sense, sometimes...
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  3. #33
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    someone try to post the 1968 series results, it will astonish many here who were not born yet,, the driver feild was amazing from all disciplines. 28 races,, 10 road courses,,12 ovals,, 5 dirt,, 10 differant winners,, ya had to do it all,
    I love the sport more than I hate the past,

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baulz View Post
    Could a DW12 run on dirt?
    No, it absolutely could not. For one, an INDYCAR has a very low ride height and would probably plant front nose/wing first in the dirt before the end of the 1st lap. Second, the suspensions likely wouldn't last much more than a few laps before breaking.
    "You make one **** of a caucasian Jackie." The Dude Lebowski

  5. #35
    Registered User Racewknd's Avatar
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    no dirt...antiquated racing with inadequate facilities.
    "I guess it comes down to a simple choice, really. Get busy living, or get busy dying."

  6. #36
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    DW12 dirt track kit?

    BTW, which would be better 2 new street courses, or two new dirt tracks on the schedule?




    (photo stolen from the liveries thread)

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by paper View Post
    someone try to post the 1968 series results, it will astonish many here who were not born yet,, the driver feild was amazing from all disciplines. 28 races,, 10 road courses,,12 ovals,, 5 dirt,, 10 differant winners,, ya had to do it all,
    And then CART took over, and well, you know the rest.
    I think Congressmen should wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers so we could identify their corporate sponsors.

  8. #38
    CART took over in 1968? Last I checked it was USAC that took dirt racces off the calender, but hey who needs facts.

  9. #39
    No. It won't do anything to increase the image of the sport, and increase the fanbase. In fact, to the the casual fan, it will look "lower tier" if they ran on dirt. in the end, it would probably turn more more away than it will attract.

    "Top tier" racing series are firmly and necessarily associated with paved circuits. Both USAC and NASCAR established that almost concurrently in 1971 +/-.


    In 1996, they force-fed the Indy car world a bunch of so-called "USAC stars," primarily from the dirt world. Insisting that they would explode the sport with new level of popularity. They have nothing to show for it in the end.

    The ladder for Indy car racing changed primarily from dirt cars to formula cars 30 years ago. You can't change the past.

  10. #40
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    Date Race Track Miles Type Winner
    3/17/68 California 200 Hanford 201 PO Gordon Johncock
    3/31/68 Stardust 150 Las Vegas 150 RC Bobby Unser
    4/7/68 Jimmy Bryan Memorial Phoenix 150 PO Bobby Unser
    4/21/68 Trenton 150 Trenton 150 PO Bobby Unser
    5/30/68 Indianapolis 500 Indianapolis 500 PO Bobby Unser
    6/9/68 Rex Mays Classic Milwaukee 150 PO Lloyd Ruby
    6/15/68 Telegraph Trophy 200 Heat 1 Mosport 98.36 RC Dan Gurney
    6/15/68 Telegraph Trophy 200 Heat 2 Mosport 98.36 RC Dan Gurney
    6/23/68 Langhorne 150 Langhorne 150 PO Gordon Johncock
    6/29/68 Pikes Peak Auto Hill Climb Pikes Peak 12.42 HC Bobby Unser
    7/7/68 Rocky Mountain 150 Castle Rock 151.62 RC A. J. Foyt
    7/13/68 Nazareth 100 Nazareth 100.125 DO Al Unser
    7/21/68 Indy 200 Heat 1 IRP 100 RC Al Unser
    7/21/68 Indy 200 Heat 2 IRP 100 RC Al Unser
    7/28/68 Langhorne Twin 100 #1 Langhorne 100 PO Al Unser
    7/28/68 Langhorne Twin 100 #2 Langhorne 100 PO Al Unser
    8/4/68 St. Jovite Heat 1 St. Jovite 100.7 RC Mario Andretti
    8/4/68 St. Jovite Heat 2 St. Jovite 100.7 RC Mario Andretti
    8/17/68 Tony Bettenhausen 100 Springfield 100 DO Roger McCluskey
    8/18/68 Tony Bettenhausen 200 Milwaukee 200 PO Lloyd Ruby
    9/2/68 Ted Horn Memorial DuQuoin 100 DO Mario Andretti
    9/7/68 Hoosier Hundred ISF 100 DO A. J. Foyt
    9/22/68 Trenton 200 Trenton 200 PO Mario Andretti
    9/29/68 Golden State 100 Sacramento 100 DO A. J. Foyt
    10/13/68 Michigan Inaugural 250 MIS 250 PO Ronnie Bucknum
    11/3/68 Hanford 250 Hanford 250.5 PO A. J. Foyt
    11/17/68 Bobby Ball Memorial Phoenix 200 PO Gary Bettenhausen
    12/1/68 Rex Mays 300 Riverside 301.6 RC Dan Gurney

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andretti91 View Post
    CART took over in 1968? Last I checked it was USAC that took dirt racces off the calender, but hey who needs facts.
    I said "And then" not "In 1968".

  12. #42
    Indy since '66 kevin99's Avatar
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    Yeah, all is good, no out of the box thinking or inovation allowed, everything is just so peachy that there is no reason to change anything.

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by fasteddy View Post
    I said "And then" not "In 1968".

    And your point in bringing up CART while discussing 1968 and the loss of dirt track racing was?

  14. #44
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    I've said this should happen for quite a while, though realistically I know it won't. It seems only fair and proper that oval dirt drivers must learn road courses to be successful in the top level of Indycar racing, then the foreign road course drivers should have to master a new form of racing as well. THEN INDYCAR could successfully make the claim to have the most diverse racing series in the world. Just my two cents.
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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin99 View Post
    Yeah, all is good, no out of the box thinking or inovation allowed, everything is just so peachy that there is no reason to change anything.
    Yes, that's what I MEANT to say.

  16. #46
    If dirt racing was nearly as popular as people on the internet claim it is, it would bring bigger ratings than NASCAR and the NFL... COMBINED!
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  17. #47
    Reset your fuel,Go Go Go Z28's Avatar
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    If every city with paved streets can be considered for an INDYCAR race I don't see why not. If the claim is the most diverse schedule and drivers in the world you should you want to match ARCA for diversity instead of being second.

    I don't see the DW12 or the old Dallara being used on a dirt track. Yes there's the cost issue.

    How about this? An alliance with USAC for races using Silver Crown cars at the three dirt mile tracks, Indiana and Illinois state fairgrounds and DuQuoin. The seating capacity at those tracks would make the races look well attended, maybe even full. What you do is have each INDYCAR team form an alliance with a USAC team, the USAC team provides a Silver Crown car for the INDYCAR team/driver at those three races.

    Then on the reverse take the races at Milwaukee, Iowa and another track, Phoenix, Chicagoland, Richmond who knows. The INDYCAR and the teams prepare a car, maybe the old Dallaras, for each of the USAC teams/drivers for a support race during the INDYCAR weekend. As for preparing the cars, you've got Newman Haas with skilled Indycar mechanics and a shop not working on Indycars, and probably dozens of other out of work personnel to bring in for the job.

    One maybe two short sprint races with no pit stops, to save on the expense of a crew, tires and all. The dirt races give the Indycar drivers more diversity and the USAC drivers the chance to maybe show they can driver those cars and make an impression to get some consideration for the 500.
    "You can't arrest those guys, they're folk heroes"
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  18. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by The JP View Post
    Date Race Track Miles Type Winner
    3/17/68 California 200 Hanford 201 PO Gordon Johncock
    3/31/68 Stardust 150 Las Vegas 150 RC Bobby Unser
    4/7/68 Jimmy Bryan Memorial Phoenix 150 PO Bobby Unser
    4/21/68 Trenton 150 Trenton 150 PO Bobby Unser
    5/30/68 Indianapolis 500 Indianapolis 500 PO Bobby Unser
    6/9/68 Rex Mays Classic Milwaukee 150 PO Lloyd Ruby
    6/15/68 Telegraph Trophy 200 Heat 1 Mosport 98.36 RC Dan Gurney
    6/15/68 Telegraph Trophy 200 Heat 2 Mosport 98.36 RC Dan Gurney
    6/23/68 Langhorne 150 Langhorne 150 PO Gordon Johncock
    6/29/68 Pikes Peak Auto Hill Climb Pikes Peak 12.42 HC Bobby Unser
    7/7/68 Rocky Mountain 150 Castle Rock 151.62 RC A. J. Foyt
    7/13/68 Nazareth 100 Nazareth 100.125 DO Al Unser
    7/21/68 Indy 200 Heat 1 IRP 100 RC Al Unser
    7/21/68 Indy 200 Heat 2 IRP 100 RC Al Unser
    7/28/68 Langhorne Twin 100 #1 Langhorne 100 PO Al Unser
    7/28/68 Langhorne Twin 100 #2 Langhorne 100 PO Al Unser
    8/4/68 St. Jovite Heat 1 St. Jovite 100.7 RC Mario Andretti
    8/4/68 St. Jovite Heat 2 St. Jovite 100.7 RC Mario Andretti
    8/17/68 Tony Bettenhausen 100 Springfield 100 DO Roger McCluskey
    8/18/68 Tony Bettenhausen 200 Milwaukee 200 PO Lloyd Ruby
    9/2/68 Ted Horn Memorial DuQuoin 100 DO Mario Andretti
    9/7/68 Hoosier Hundred ISF 100 DO A. J. Foyt
    9/22/68 Trenton 200 Trenton 200 PO Mario Andretti
    9/29/68 Golden State 100 Sacramento 100 DO A. J. Foyt
    10/13/68 Michigan Inaugural 250 MIS 250 PO Ronnie Bucknum
    11/3/68 Hanford 250 Hanford 250.5 PO A. J. Foyt
    11/17/68 Bobby Ball Memorial Phoenix 200 PO Gary Bettenhausen
    12/1/68 Rex Mays 300 Riverside 301.6 RC Dan Gurney
    Let's see...
    Trenton's gone, Nazareth's gone, Riverside's gone, that track in Vegas is gone, Langhorne's gone, Sacramento's gone. Pike's Peak is not appropriate for being an Indy car race. Times change.

    Only Phoenix, Indy, Milwaukee and Michigan are left from that list that are still appropriate, and all four of those are paved. Two are still on the schedule, the other two could be back someday.

  19. #49
    I had made the suggestion to Robin Miller in an email that this would work well as a charity event. Work with Tony Stewart to use his cars and track (just like the Gillette Prelude to a Dream). Proceeds go where Tony wants them....

    Award our drivers points just like a normal series race. It would not be "required" for our drivers to participate...but, the first time someone looses a championship due to a few points, I guarantee they would be back the next year.

  20. #50
    Just a race fan Vasserfan's Avatar
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    After years of fighting and a split, guess what, we are all IndyCar

    October will always be a sad racing month for me. RIP Greg and Dan. You both were great and we miss you.

  21. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z28 View Post
    If every city with paved streets can be considered for an INDYCAR race I don't see why not. If the claim is the most diverse schedule and drivers in the world you should you want to match ARCA for diversity instead of being second.

    I don't see the DW12 or the old Dallara being used on a dirt track. Yes there's the cost issue.

    How about this? An alliance with USAC for races using Silver Crown cars at the three dirt mile tracks, Indiana and Illinois state fairgrounds and DuQuoin. The seating capacity at those tracks would make the races look well attended, maybe even full. What you do is have each INDYCAR team form an alliance with a USAC team, the USAC team provides a Silver Crown car for the INDYCAR team/driver at those three races.

    Then on the reverse take the races at Milwaukee, Iowa and another track, Phoenix, Chicagoland, Richmond who knows. The INDYCAR and the teams prepare a car, maybe the old Dallaras, for each of the USAC teams/drivers for a support race during the INDYCAR weekend. As for preparing the cars, you've got Newman Haas with skilled Indycar mechanics and a shop not working on Indycars, and probably dozens of other out of work personnel to bring in for the job.

    One maybe two short sprint races with no pit stops, to save on the expense of a crew, tires and all. The dirt races give the Indycar drivers more diversity and the USAC drivers the chance to maybe show they can driver those cars and make an impression to get some consideration for the 500.


    But, but, but...you are overlooking the sack factor required to get behind the wheel of a sprint car.

    ...---...

  22. #52
    pops
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorindy View Post
    Let's see...
    Trenton's gone, Nazareth's gone, Riverside's gone, that track in Vegas is gone, Langhorne's gone, Sacramento's gone. Pike's Peak is not appropriate for being an Indy car race. Times change.

    Only Phoenix, Indy, Milwaukee and Michigan are left from that list that are still appropriate, and all four of those are paved. Two are still on the schedule, the other two could be back someday.
    Actually I was looking at more from a driver perspective. 44 years ago and every name still instantly recognizable.

    BTW: GREAT post Z28!

  23. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by The JP View Post
    Date Race Track Miles Type Winner
    3/17/68 California 200 Hanford 201 PO Gordon Johncock
    3/31/68 Stardust 150 Las Vegas 150 RC Bobby Unser
    4/7/68 Jimmy Bryan Memorial Phoenix 150 PO Bobby Unser
    4/21/68 Trenton 150 Trenton 150 PO Bobby Unser
    5/30/68 Indianapolis 500 Indianapolis 500 PO Bobby Unser
    6/9/68 Rex Mays Classic Milwaukee 150 PO Lloyd Ruby
    6/15/68 Telegraph Trophy 200 Heat 1 Mosport 98.36 RC Dan Gurney
    6/15/68 Telegraph Trophy 200 Heat 2 Mosport 98.36 RC Dan Gurney
    6/23/68 Langhorne 150 Langhorne 150 PO Gordon Johncock
    6/29/68 Pikes Peak Auto Hill Climb Pikes Peak 12.42 HC Bobby Unser
    7/7/68 Rocky Mountain 150 Castle Rock 151.62 RC A. J. Foyt
    7/13/68 Nazareth 100 Nazareth 100.125 DO Al Unser
    7/21/68 Indy 200 Heat 1 IRP 100 RC Al Unser
    7/21/68 Indy 200 Heat 2 IRP 100 RC Al Unser
    7/28/68 Langhorne Twin 100 #1 Langhorne 100 PO Al Unser
    7/28/68 Langhorne Twin 100 #2 Langhorne 100 PO Al Unser
    8/4/68 St. Jovite Heat 1 St. Jovite 100.7 RC Mario Andretti
    8/4/68 St. Jovite Heat 2 St. Jovite 100.7 RC Mario Andretti
    8/17/68 Tony Bettenhausen 100 Springfield 100 DO Roger McCluskey
    8/18/68 Tony Bettenhausen 200 Milwaukee 200 PO Lloyd Ruby
    9/2/68 Ted Horn Memorial DuQuoin 100 DO Mario Andretti
    9/7/68 Hoosier Hundred ISF 100 DO A. J. Foyt
    9/22/68 Trenton 200 Trenton 200 PO Mario Andretti
    9/29/68 Golden State 100 Sacramento 100 DO A. J. Foyt
    10/13/68 Michigan Inaugural 250 MIS 250 PO Ronnie Bucknum
    11/3/68 Hanford 250 Hanford 250.5 PO A. J. Foyt
    11/17/68 Bobby Ball Memorial Phoenix 200 PO Gary Bettenhausen
    12/1/68 Rex Mays 300 Riverside 301.6 RC Dan Gurney
    I tried to get this layed out so it was easier to read but my typesetting didn't hold. Anyway there were 13 different paved oval races on 7 different tracks, 9 different road course races on 6 different tracks, 5 dirt oval races on 5 different tracks and 1 hill climb on the 1968 schedule, which I view as the absolute pinnacle of AOWR and I consider 1970 as the last real AOWR championship. IIRC USAC split off the championship dirt races because the owners were complaining that it was too costly to maintain Indycars and Champ dirt cars. I have some of Dick Wallen's racing classics and at Duquoin and Springfield in 1965 Al Unser tried to qualify the #96 Harrison rear engined Eisert/Offy on the dirt. It looks really strange to see an rear-engined Indycar on dirt.

  24. #54
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    And I also agree that there is no way that INDYCAR could or should add dirt ovals to the series, those days are 40 years past. Today they need to be focusing on getting a good balance of the best road course, street, and oval tracks.

  25. #55
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    I would officially like to start the oval vs road course debate - OFF ROAD. I vote for an Indycar RALLY!!!! Yes, it sounds stupid, and it absolutely is! So is racing Indycars on the dirt, period. But why not anyways, right??? Oh yeah, cause it's stupid.

  26. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Field of 33 View Post
    I've said this should happen for quite a while, though realistically I know it won't. It seems only fair and proper that oval dirt drivers must learn road courses to be successful in the top level of Indycar racing, then the foreign road course drivers should have to master a new form of racing as well. THEN INDYCAR could successfully make the claim to have the most diverse racing series in the world. Just my two cents.
    A: The Most Diverse/Fastest drivers in the World claim is marketing nonsense.

    B: If you really want to watch a series that races on roac courses, paved ovals and dirt then go and watch ARCA.

  27. #57
    I respect the history of the sport and there are things best left to history in the sport. So, no...this isn't 1958 and there is a reason they don't drive on dirt anymore.

  28. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by fasteddy View Post
    And then CART took over, and well, you know the rest.
    there was no CART til 1979,, thats 11 yrs later,,

  29. #59
    Indy since '66 kevin99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moid View Post
    I would officially like to start the oval vs road course debate - OFF ROAD. I vote for an Indycar RALLY!!!! Yes, it sounds stupid, and it absolutely is! So is racing Indycars on the dirt, period. But why not anyways, right??? Oh yeah, cause it's stupid.
    Because someone has a different opinion then you, it's stupid. Ok, nice to know.

  30. #60
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    I love all the people who just say "No"

    I can't imagine anybody who enjoys Indy Car not enjoying seeing Helio, Will, Dario, Dixon, Ed, Tony K....etc battling it out on a dirt oval.

    When I was a kid I got excited about seeing Gurney, Foyt, J. Stewart, Hill battle it out with slot cars on the (I think) Ed Sullivan Show. We need more ovals and it would generate attention and besides it would be fun.
    Tara was the name of our cat.

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