IndyCar was "close" to returning to Michigan this year

[SEVista]

I'm sure the financial model that asks the track to promote the race was a problem......

Bingo.

They are not in the business of promoting anything beyond NASCAR. They do not see it as their obligation. They are track owners and promoters of NASCAR. The payment of a sanctioning fee by ISC for an IndyCar event is an investment in benign neglect: they don't promote it so they can say the product is weaker than our main product for promotion.

Before ISC and corporate track ownership, a track would clear out any semblance of the series not running there that weekend and dedicate themselves to bringing in people to see the featured series. For example, Phoenix. Before ISC, I would go there and the city would be engaged in an IndyCar event and the track owners would make a promotional week of it on local TV and radio. You knew IndyCar was in town and you might be lucky to get a mountainside seat at the last minute.

Then ISC. Then the yearly excuse why they didn't promote IndyCar. We conveniently gave them an open wheel schism...no doubt in that. However, it doesn't absolve you from the promotional aspect of the event in which they signed on to promote.

I read the ISC financials for 2011. They took advantage of major one-time loopholes to give the appearance of profitability in 2011. They still have construction notes with Charlotte-based banks that the banks refuse to refinance at a lower rate and longer term. Translation: their cash flow and credit-worthiness are at question.

They need events at their facilities to increase cash flow. They are going to dab their toe in the IndyCar pool and try to get them back at a few ISC tracks. I'd double the sanctioning fee and demand the promotional direction be handled by someone else and use their promotional staff for intern-like duties. They've proven they don't want to promote anything beyond NASCAR. Relieve them of that worry and take it over for them. They won't sign on the dotted line because benign neglect is what they provide non-NASCAR customers and that is what they want: to be the tallest midget in the room.

[red5champ]

There was something about Michigan. It was just made for indycars. You had the short ovals, then Indy and Michigan. The 500 mile races were just amazing. Its one of the very few ovals left ideal for indycar racing and no longer revamped for NASCAR.

Hey there was a reason up untill the late '90s that the place was a sell out.

They need to go back there when the opportunity arises for both parties. A 500 mile race please. As long as they bring back Phoenix then I will be happy too with the amount of ovals.

[SEVista]

Well, if one Michigan Cup race goes away as rumored then there would be a nice opening for the IICS.

Then you would know their financials at ISC are aplomb with pock marks. Read them sometime and compare the 2011 to 2010 one-time categories on the balance sheet. The totals they take advantage of on a one-time basis are staggering in order to give the appearance of profitability. By any measure, taking away a second date at a Michigan is a sign of financial detritis.

The next step will be wholesale loans from the main company (NASCAR). By 2015, at least one of their older tracks will be closed and a newer track sold at a loss. They can't sustain their long-term notes with a $51 million a year loss (the chargeoffs/tax loopholes they took in 2011) guaranteed over the next three fiscal cycles.

[red5champ]

I was driving to Michigan from Pennsylvania with three others every year to see this race, and I would do it again if it came back. I was in turn 4 for the "starts" of the US 500.

Hey I was in the the last stand heading into turn1. Later that year had a good glimpse of emmos horrifying crash with Greg Moore on the opening lap when Moore came down on him. Some of the best races I have ever seen were at Michigan.

It's funny just the other day I found my event program for the U.S. 500 in '96 and my signed Andretti cap and '94 diecast for the boy.

[BretEarl]

I did not say anything on their financials you did.all I know is they lost their title sponsor for one race and that rumors are one race from Pocono or Michigan may be taken away. We shall see , but whate everr the out come Michigan is a fine track and I enjoyed my one visit andwould go again.

[Grizzlor]

I did not say anything on their financials you did. All I know is they lost their title sponsor for one race and that rumors are one race from Pocono or Michigan may be taken away. We shall see , but whatever the outcome Michigan is a fine track and I enjoyed my one visit and would go again.

I've said this before, I don't see any chance of Pocono losing a race. They get 90K both races, and just spent a lot of money fixing the track. Michigan on the other hand could be different, but they're owned by ISC, and the question is, what other track would ISC use the date for? Chicagoland, Darlington, or Fontana draw are not super for one race, and I can't see them going to Homestead twice. I can't imagine they'd sell a date to SMI for Vegas. That really leaves Montreal Gilles Villeneuve, where I suppose they could hold a Sprint Cup event, and move Sonoma into the Chase.

[Rick Jones]

Being a huge Indy 500 fan since my childhood, when I went to Michigan for the first time to see the Indycars race in 1984, I was blown away with how competitive the race was and that I could see the entire race course from my seat. I was so taken by that race I went back for the fall race. I hated it when Indycars stopped racing there and It as well as Phoenix are the two ovals at the top on my list that Randy needs to make sure that in time they are part of the IICS schedule.

[Offy85]

If they go back to Michigan I'll be there. It would be even better if it was a 500 mile race.

[porscheman]

I'd be there for sure! I go every August for the Cup date.



porscheman

[BretEarl]

Grizz, Kansas would be the track.

[irlrules98]

"Metro" Detroit is pretty large---extending to Ann Arbor too, and MIS is like 40 miles from there. 50 miles from Toledo, same from Lansing really.

[fivehundred2go]

Would be nice - but I'm very afraid of how many people are going to have dollars to spend on "fun" things - $5 gallon gas is going to put BIG dent in cost of necessities as everything has to MOVE.

[jcmark611]

Would be nice - but I'm very afraid of how many people are going to have dollars to spend on "fun" things - $5 gallon gas is going to put BIG dent in cost of necessities as everything has to MOVE.

Hasn't hurt events in Europe.

[SEVista]

I did not say anything on their financials you did.all I know is they lost their title sponsor for one race and that rumors are one race from Pocono or Michigan may be taken away. We shall see , but whate everr the out come Michigan is a fine track and I enjoyed my one visit andwould go again.

...and I wasn't getting in your face. I was merely supporting the greater point I think you were making: Michigan may need the help. My question is, why should we buckle to support an institution (ISC) that doesn't support us?

[indywulf]

If they go back to Michigan I'll be there. It would be even better if it was a 500 mile race.

and then increase Fontana to 500 miles.Fantastic Triple Crown!

[Pelican Joe]

I went to 25 straight open wheel races at Michigan. If this were to happen, I would gladly start a new streak!

I LOVED attending open-wheel races at Michigan. I'd LOVE to go back...but I can see a lot of hurdles in the way of making that happen. I'm not saying that it cannot be done...but I think making Michigan work would be harder than making Milwaukee or Fontana work. MIS has some beautiful surroundings...but it's essentially in the middle-of-nowhere. Cup races aren't even selling out there. Still...as I said...if they could make it work...I'd be back!

[Djski442]

There's at least 5 million peopl who live within a 2 hour drive of MIS. Population isn't the issue, and neither is the economy. People just don't care for these type of things anymore. If the economy was the issue than the Tigers wouldn't be packing in 40,000 thousand people on any given day, the lions wouldn't sell out a pree season game, the wolverines wouldnt pack 110,000 fans every Saturday. Auto racing has become a niche sport, now more than ever, people need to realize this. I think it's time for the sport and the tracks to start scaling back a little.

[Z28]

Grizz, Kansas would be the track.

What I believe you are saying is that Kansas would be in line to take a date from MIS? This would be on the impossible list and I have no sources or links to support that. Except that Kansas, with their new casino opening, already has two NASCAR weekends. Truck/Cup and Nationwide/Cup.


I have never looked at the ISC financials but. I can't identify an older track that they would shut down, Darlington is down to one date but it sells tickets. They're spending money at Watkins Glen, just paved MIS, Phoenix. They come close to selling out Richmond twice a year. Will repave Kansas between the races this year and installed lights, plus the casino. They couldn't survive the criticism of closing Talladega. As for Martinsville they have construction going on

The project includes demolition of all the restrooms under the Richard Petty Tower on the fourth-turn end of the front stretch and construction of larger, modern restrooms. The new restrooms are being built about 30 feet further back, allowing for a much wider concourse area to help improve pedestrian traffic. In fact, the width of the concourse in that area will be almost doubled. The new restrooms will be almost twice as large as the present ones and contain amenities comparable with any large entertainment venue. Fans will also notice a refurbished ticket office when they return for the Goody’s Fast Relief weekend this spring, which includes a new façade and redesigned and refurbished interior

As for selling a track, to who? If ISC can't make money at a place with the sweetheart deal they no doubt get from NASCAR how can anyone else do better? I know there's this hatred for ISC and NASCAR and it's fun to blame them for much of what ails INDYCAR but it just doesn't add up.

[BretEarl]

Z28 shows you how close I watch NASCAR.If not that maybe they mentioned running another Road Course.I read this on Auotextremist .com

[indyrox@lith]

Z28 shows you how close I watch NASCAR.If not that maybe they mentioned running another Road Course.I read this on Auotextremist .com

Z28 probably wears tube sox. LOL.

[Grizzlor]

Z28 shows you how close I watch NASCAR.If not that maybe they mentioned running another Road Course.I read this on Auotextremist .com

Yes, Montreal, that's what I've been wondering about.

[Bullitt73]

The MIS cup races may not sell out anymore but they are a far cry from not drawing great. The fact of the matter is when the economy was good they put too many seats in to think they could maintain that level of ticket buyers in the long run.

Two reasons I still don't see it. One, MIS draws not so great for NASCAR, and will draw flies for IICS. We can't get the gomers to drive up to Milwaukee, they're going to drive to MIS? Two, dates. Dates are just way too difficult to find for MIS, like Pocono, due to the weather, and having two NASCAR dates.

I personally don't think Belle Isle matters, because they're not really the same fans, and in the past they often were close to each other on the schedule.

[Neshaminy]

Bingo.

They are not in the business of promoting anything beyond NASCAR. They do not see it as their obligation. They are track owners and promoters of NASCAR. The payment of a sanctioning fee by ISC for an IndyCar event is an investment in benign neglect: they don't promote it so they can say the product is weaker than our main product for promotion.

Before ISC and corporate track ownership, a track would clear out any semblance of the series not running there that weekend and dedicate themselves to bringing in people to see the featured series. For example, Phoenix. Before ISC, I would go there and the city would be engaged in an IndyCar event and the track owners would make a promotional week of it on local TV and radio. You knew IndyCar was in town and you might be lucky to get a mountainside seat at the last minute.

Then ISC. Then the yearly excuse why they didn't promote IndyCar. We conveniently gave them an open wheel schism...no doubt in that. However, it doesn't absolve you from the promotional aspect of the event in which they signed on to promote.

I read the ISC financials for 2011. They took advantage of major one-time loopholes to give the appearance of profitability in 2011. They still have construction notes with Charlotte-based banks that the banks refuse to refinance at a lower rate and longer term. Translation: their cash flow and credit-worthiness are at question.

They need events at their facilities to increase cash flow. They are going to dab their toe in the IndyCar pool and try to get them back at a few ISC tracks. I'd double the sanctioning fee and demand the promotional direction be handled by someone else and use their promotional staff for intern-like duties. They've proven they don't want to promote anything beyond NASCAR. Relieve them of that worry and take it over for them. They won't sign on the dotted line because benign neglect is what they provide non-NASCAR customers and that is what they want: to be the tallest midget in the room.

I believe in short, they are lazy. They would rather not have anyone in the stands rather than doing a little work and having an overflow crowd whereby they would make more money......once you have the local connections (which they should have done decades ago) how hard is promotion for an event? 40 phone calls and a few visits by news crews? Sadly if they did even a little more work and encouraged a little city to be built the night before, the carnies could set up their rides, the sponsors could built a temporary encampment, a local brewpub, rock band(s), BarBQ setup(s), a fireworks show, and flea market for the downtime........bringing in the attractions to bring in the people is not hard, except if you're lazy.

[BrakeEarly]

I believe in short, they are lazy. They would rather not have anyone in the stands rather than doing a little work and having an overflow crowd whereby they would make more money......once you have the local connections (which they should have done decades ago) how hard is promotion for an event? 40 phone calls and a few visits by news crews? Sadly if they did even a little more work and encouraged a little city to be built the night before, the carnies could set up their rides, the sponsors could built a temporary encampment, a local brewpub, rock band(s), BarBQ setup(s), a fireworks show, and flea market for the downtime........bringing in the attractions to bring in the people is not hard, except if you're lazy.

The problem is not promotion. That can be accomplished with the checkbook.

The problem is return on promotional investment. Spending a fortune to bring in attractions is not going to guarantee attendance. Before the start of 2011, Randy was bashing ISC for the lack of promotion and implying that Milwaukee and Vegas would prove the theory that the only issue was having insufficient or incorrectly targeted promotion. He proved to be wrong and admitted it after the season when he stated that he doesn't know what's wrong with oval attendance, but it isn't the promotion.

If Promotion is so easy, why doesn't IMS promote time trials and put 100k in the stands this year?

Michigan is a great track that has been missed from the schedule... but the sport needs to increase it's built in audience before asking tracks to do it for them.

[Turn13]

Randy was bashing ISC for the lack of promotion and implying that Milwaukee and Vegas would prove the theory that the only issue was having insufficient or incorrectly targeted promotion.

You think Milwaukee was properly promoted?

Vegas didn't manifest much to brag of in attendance, but it was just the first year, too. Plus, though tickets were ostensibly "free", that's not the biggest expense for a road trip race. It still required a trip commitment. There are far fewer oval-racing people within 200 miles of Vegas than there are for Milwaukee, plus TV ratings were far above average, even before the accident.

Not sure there's the same market for that kind of racing in California as there might be in Texas or Chicago, either, though. But I'd say the marketing and promotion had a positive effect on Vegas - right up until the product failed.

[bikermick]

I'm sure the financial model that asks the track to promote the race was a problem......

You got that right.I've seen some of ISC's prior work at Nazareth and Phoenix.

[BrakeEarly]

You think Milwaukee was properly promoted?

Vegas didn't manifest much to brag of in attendance, but it was just the first year, too. Plus, though tickets were ostensibly "free", that's not the biggest expense for a road trip race. It still required a trip commitment. There are far fewer oval-racing people within 200 miles of Vegas than there are for Milwaukee, plus TV ratings were far above average, even before the accident.

Not sure there's the same market for that kind of racing in California as there might be in Texas or Chicago, either, though. But I'd say the marketing and promotion had a positive effect on Vegas - right up until the product failed.

I'd hope that a season finale, with free tickets, a million dollar promotion, deciding a championship in the final race for the cars had a positive effect. But you're talking about the no-holds-barred version of race promotion... not something that will never be recreated for Michigan or Milwaukee. Randy pulled every stop he could and still the result wasn't worth bragging of. That is exactly why Randy had to concede that promotion isn't the issue.

Milwaukee was promoted by Randy's hand picked man... what else do you think should have been done? Lets face it. Milwaukee is on the schedule this year only because the rental was cheap enough and the incremental payment from IZOD for holding the minimum number of races was enough to allow the series to all but eliminate the sanction fee altogether. I've seen no shortage of hope and anticipation of better crowds this year... yet I've seen no evidence to support the notion that there will be any more promotion than last year.

[Neshaminy]

The problem is not promotion. That can be accomplished with the checkbook.

The problem is return on promotional investment. Spending a fortune to bring in attractions is not going to guarantee attendance. Before the start of 2011, Randy was bashing ISC for the lack of promotion and implying that Milwaukee and Vegas would prove the theory that the only issue was having insufficient or incorrectly targeted promotion. He proved to be wrong and admitted it after the season when he stated that he doesn't know what's wrong with oval attendance, but it isn't the promotion.

If Promotion is so easy, why doesn't IMS promote time trials and put 100k in the stands this year?

Michigan is a great track that has been missed from the schedule... but the sport needs to increase it's built in audience before asking tracks to do it for them.

IMS doesn't need the money, the people will come, it is an anomaly much like LeMans and Nürburgring.......if you see them promoting time trials it may mean something's up.

Street courses have an advantage, the city attractions. It's not like the old days where the cars were scary fast because they were at the limit of mechanical technology. Not so today. The cars are no longer the limit but at a comfortable limit, if not they'd be doing 280mph at Indy with the rules of 1990......so since you've lost the technology interested folks you have to attract a different crowd......the best way is to use the op-SC plan, bring the city services to the people. That is promotion via other services.....the brewpub will be advertising and being advertised for by race promotion, same with the steak house, the coffee shop, Fuzzy's......and establishments who will move to the speedway for the weekend.....and on and on.

It's simple to sit back, put up some ads on radio to people 100 miles away about a race and nothing else......but if there's more to offer than just the race and those folks can advertise too you are getting the masses and the local interest........but that is work, not signing a check, and should (I repeat should if done well) put more in the speedway and expand exposure. One shot races are not a cure, they have to establish a base of fans over years which will soon be a generation away from watching at Michigan in short time, and they may be a different type of fan looking for a weekend away. They need commitment from a speedway willing to work to make it all successful. It didn't sound like Michigan was willing to work.

[BrakeEarly]

IMS doesn't need the money, the people will come, it is an anomaly much like LeMans and Nürburgring.......if you see them promoting time trials it may mean something's up.

Street courses have an advantage, the city attractions. It's not like the old days where the cars were scary fast because they were at the limit of mechanical technology. Not so today. The cars are no longer the limit but at a comfortable limit, if not they'd be doing 280mph at Indy with the rules of 1990......so since you've lost the technology interested folks you have to attract a different crowd......the best way is to use the op-SC plan, bring the city services to the people. That is promotion via other services.....the brewpub will be advertising and being advertised for by race promotion, same with the steak house, the coffee shop, Fuzzy's......and establishments who will move to the speedway for the weekend.....and on and on.

It's simple to sit back, put up some ads on radio to people 100 miles away about a race and nothing else......but if there's more to offer than just the race and those folks can advertise too you are getting the masses and the local interest........but that is work, not signing a check, and should (I repeat should if done well) put more in the speedway and expand exposure. One shot races are not a cure, they have to establish a base of fans over years which will soon be a generation away from watching at Michigan in short time, and they may be a different type of fan looking for a weekend away. They need commitment from a speedway willing to work to make it all successful. It didn't sound like Michigan was willing to work.

IMS doesn't need money? That is a pretty poor excuse... especially if you want anybody to believe that that IMS could attract 50-100K for time trials by promoting the event, but chooses not to because they have no use for cold hard cash.

You've got the economic process backwards in your head if you believe that bringing brewpubs, steak houses, coffee shops, and carnivals to the track is the way to attract people. You cannot expect to attract people to the middle of nowhere in Michigan to get coffee, steak and a beer. If that's what they wanted, they could stay home. Don't expect to attract a carnival away from the strip malls to an empty race track. The carnival will stay in the busy strip mall because that is where the people are. Those ancillary activities are brought to events that have established crowds in order to extract existing consumer surplus. You don't set up a zip line outside a Butler Football game in hopes of attracting people to the stands to watch the game. You put up a zip line in the middle of a massive crowd and take their money. No crowd, no zip line.

Street courses have an advantage... and how many on the Indycar schedule attract more than the rib-america festival in Indianapolis last year? Even with all of the built in entertainment and eatery options to blow cash on, people don't flock to urban areas to watch a race any more than they do to just eat ribs. Yet somehow, these same attractions are miraculously going to attract people by the thousand to a track in the boonies... I got it. I hope you will be willing to step up and run such a remote promotion. I'm sure it will only require work on your part... not a check.

[atrackforumfan]

Switching an ISC date to Kansas is a hard choice, however it happens. There are plenty of races in the NC/VA/TN area, but the extra capacity is at SMI tracks; if ISC reduces its events, that's mostly money it won't get back at another of its tracks.

OTOH, Dover Motorsports has a market cap of $50M as of last Friday. Buy it for the dates, sell the property to Dover Downs Entertainment (or sell the property to someone who wants to jack DDE around).