For everyone bringing up Graham and Marco, it should be noted that Al Jr. went on to win this race, which was his first Super Speedway win. He got his first oval win just a month earlier at Milwaukee. IIRC, he was 27 at the time, so Graham and Marco still have some time.
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Back then is just the same as right now. You just need an internet bs filter. I have an extra strength one for this place.Originally Posted by Sea Fury
It was pure and uncontrived. No forced pack racing "cuz thats what works for NASCAR". No goofy looking series or iconcic comitee designed car. Just pure flat our badd ass racing cars doing what they should do, out runniung each other and sometimes by several laps. A true race fan appreciates and enjoys watching total dommonation of a race weekend, we understand what it took from that team and that driver to end the day the only car on the lead lap. A true race fans doesnt need 700 lead changes or a giant pack of cars driving around at the exact same speed cuz the series has ludicrous rules in place to make sure every one is driving around in a giant pack at the same speed.
Last edited by Andretti91; 02-26-2012 at 11:55 PM.
^^^
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No one had to badge the Offy.
You only need two drivers battling for the win for a great race. Much more than that tends to muck things up: Ward/Rathman, Johnock/Mears, Fittipaldi/Unser, Andretti/Mears, Unser/Goodyear, Hornish/Andretti. My favorite race of all time, the 1982 Indy 500. The last 100 miles of the race was the best racing IMS has ever seen - Johncock/Mears battling for those last 100 miles, caution free - and no passes for the lead, but filled with stomach-knotting drama.
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i think the answer to the op's question is that there was less access back then that created more demand. tv was crappy both from coverage and technology. no internet, no cell phones, no facebook or twitter with drivers giving updates, little real coverage from magazines - even ontrack was brief in details. to get your indycar fix, you had to be there.
This.
Put Dale Earnhard jr, Tony Stewart, Jeff Gordon and 2-3 other nascar stars in Indycars, and tv networks, fans and sponsors will show up.
The world championship karting doesn't attract a soul to its races. Michael schumacher entered one of the world championship races somewhere early in the 00's, and 20.000+ fans showed up at the race in Kerpen (and that was only because the place couldn't hold more). 20.000+ paying spectators for a kart race.
They know who the drivers are. Considering 65 out of the 79 cars that ran in trucks and Nationwide wrecked this weekend tells me it isn't about innovation or speed but maybe the wrecks where people think everyone will walk away is the appeal. I tried watching some of the racing and considering that its wreck, wreck, fuel conserve, wait to the last lap to race I can't see the appeal but then again that is why they're losing the 18-35 year old demographic.
CART was still putting more than 50k + into the stands as late as the '97 - 98 races and only a couple of those guys listed were racing along with guys like DeFerran and Zanardi. At the same time there was a competing OW racing series running completely on ovals featuring Americans throughout most of it's grid. If you think CART racing and what attracted the fans to it was about some American drivers that fans could connect with and not about the best in drivers driving an interesting mix of chassis's, engines and tire combinations than you completely misunderstand what was attracting those fans to that race (and most of the others for that matter) and the CART experience overall.
Mostly American drivers, that came up "through the ranks", and were heard of for years, most of them were not f1 washouts that had a little money.
"You just don't know what Indy Means" Al Unser Jr.
Nice when the cars aren't stuck to that white line at the bottom of the track.
To answer the original question:
1. Good announcing - those guys helped to make the race more interesting
2. The unknown - lots of blown engines that day - cars were not nearly as reliable...
3. The storyline - driving faster than they qualified - that is pretty cool....
4. THe track/cars - they were driving all over the track - not just one groove
5. No worries - I can't watch pack racing live - recorded is fine - but live it drives me nuts waiting for disaster to strike. Yes, there is danger here - but you are focused on the cars and the race not the impending "big one"....
6. The consistency - these were guys and teams were had been watching and hearing about for almost 10 years at that point - we knew the back stories and the career paths of many of the drivers involved.
7. Who on earth blows by Mario Andretti (who is running in third place and 3 laps down) like that??!!! Rahal and Unser were just plain hooked up - and that is pretty cool to see all the pieces come together like that for a team that didn't always have that kind of run....
They had a good product for many reasons, I do understand that looking backwards at one of those races might not be very interesting - but having been a part of the the series fan base for a while back then it was pretty compelling stuff....
I loved it because it was great stuff.... just didn't get any better anywhere else at the time.
Because back then it was real racing. It wasn't "made for entertainment" somewhat 'artificial' like today.
Who really cares what happens before the last green flag stint. You know they are all going to be in a pack, thus everything up to the last stint becomes meaningless.
20yrs ago every lap meant something. If a guy could open a big lead it meant something. Build a big enough lead and he could even pit without losing the lead (pre speed limit days). Get a lap on the field and then cruise to save your car. A race remained intriguing even when someone had a lap on the field because you never knew if they pushing too hard and were going to have mechanical issues.
Nowadays, no one ever blows an engine because they are de-tuned to never be stressed. Spec cars, aero rules, closing of the pits = artificially lots of cars in a pack together at the end.
I know it's that. I think what some here who were not fans, not born or had no idea there was Indycar racing refuse to understand is that it was an era when Indycar drivers were stars of the sports world even to people who weren't race fans. People who didn't follow the sport knew who these drivers were and considered them stars and great at what they did even if they didn't pay much attention to it.
Today it's different but too many Indycar fans act as though it's the same. It isn't because they've been driving cars without turbos and with airboxes, they didn't break a record at Indy every year or there were too many races that people didn't pay attention to. Back then people paid attention to races because of the drivers. Yes someone like Tony Kanaan or Scott Dixon has been at the highest level of Indycar racing for nearly a decade but they don't have the same stardom beyond the Indycar world that those 5 from 1990 and an even longer list did then. But there are those vocal Indycar fans who so want to support the sport that they live in denial and act as though every Indycar driver is a star but it's the rest of the sports world who is just being contrary and not admitting it.
Just look at that list of 5 from 1990 and their rookie years. Rahal 1982, Al jr. 1983, did run some in 82, Michael 1984 did run some in 83, Mario 1965, Mears 1978 did run in 77 I believe. Go back to a list of drivers from 2000 and look at how few remain and see how many are at the star level of those 5. Then compare 1990 to 2012 and see why things are they way they are.
When you look at the Indy winners since 1995 and how many left the sport via changing series, retirement, death or inability to get the money for a ride shortly after winning the 500 it becomes clear that where the sport stands today is in part due to a lack of Indy winning stars in the field on a regular basis. And the problem multiplies by the drivers that come and go as does their funding just aren't the marquee names that anyone notices.
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Reason is not automatic. Those who do not believe in it cannot be conquered by it. And, the trouble with being punctual is that there is nobody there to appreciate it.
Innovation.
Sea Fury hit the nail on the head with this one. Back then the only way to see the cars were either the race broadcast or the occasional picture in Indycar magazine or OnTrack. There was alot less access to the series so there was more excitement to go to a race if it were near. Now you can watch and see everything that happens on the net and youtube. In the 80's a new car would have maybe one picture and then next time you saw it was the first race. I loved the first race, when you finally got to see the new colors and paint schemes. Now something comes out and it gets reviewed and critiqued to the point your bored with it before the first race.
SC
I think a lot of you hit it on the head. I was growing up through the 80's and early 90's and went to every Indycar race at Michigan. The stars to me were definitely the cars. They were the coolest things I had ever seen. Every year there was something new and exciting about them. I can't imagine growing up when there were turbines etc. That is exactly how F1 holds my interest now.
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was trying to come up with a response of my own, but the above says it better it I could
Yeah, but those guys came in and raced versus the big american superstars and beat them. Have Andrew Luck play in the CFL next year and nobody would have cared, put him on the Indianapolis Colts and have him beat the NFL famous players and everybody either starts loving or hating the kid. Indycar's stars got old and left and were never replaced by long term stars. Mansell was to old, Villeneuve, Zanardi and Montoya left for F1, Moore got killed, Stewart left for Nascar, Robby Gordon never got a real shot at a topteam, Vasser just wasnt a true fans favourite, and to make matters worse the sport was divided with the marque event for years having a field of lesser names. In the end you'd have a podium of Robert Doornbos, Neel Jani and Oriol Servia. That isn't going to sell.
In the old days the big names didn't go anywhere, and were competitive for 15+years with their legacy being build even further each year @ indy. I am certain that if from '95 till 2005 there had been 1 serie with competitive drives for Andretti, Unser Jr., Villeneuve, Stewart, Gordon, Hornish, Moore, Zanardi, Montoya, de Ferran, and starting in the early/mid 00's opportunities for talent like Allmendinger, Hunter Reay, Mears, Patrick, Renna, Fisher, Rice, Bell, Gidley, Marco Andretti, Graham Rahal, Hilldebrand, etc. that Indycar would still have been pretty popular and the drivers would have been well known stars.
If CART was that one series, half of those drivers would have never been given a ride.
"IRL" ... what IS that anyway?
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...and, as if on cue...
Some people just ain't happy unless they ain't happy...
Some of those names also don't derserve a ride. But thank god we had people like you encouraging the formation of the IRL so now the drivers come to Indy in the hopes of progressing to NASCAR.
Yes, i agree. Not sure what your trying to say though, since i don't think i was implying otherwise.
Your welcome.
Maybe when Indycar moves away from being an underpowered mule motor spec series, where teams have to be subsidized, drivers will start looking at it as a destination, and not a stepping stone or old folks home.
You come by here any time and watch a race with me.
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Thanks - I lol'ed.
Which of those drivers would have been kept out of CART unfairly?
Of those 22, 15 actually drove in CART or CCWS. (15 of 22 is more than "half".)
Of the remainder, Patrick, Renna, and Hornish raced in the IRL for former CART team owners, so it's stupid to claim in their cases that there was a "CART team" bias against American drivers.
Marco Andretti probably would have had a Champ Car/ CART ride if he wanted it.
Gordon, Fisher, and Stewart didn't race in CART. That's 3 of 21 who didn't have CART rides and possibly might not have gotten them.
Hildebrand we can't make a conclusion on, but on the basis of the evidence it would be foolish to rely on your opinion on that.
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I think the best comment above was simple...that racing was "pure."
You were on pins and needles every lap, but not because it was a giant pack waiting to wreck. It was because those guys were on the limit. The track was rough, the engines were not de-tuned (and could pop at any minute), the speeds were fast, it was usually hot outside.
The Michigan 500 was a grueling challenge. Making it to the finish was difficult in itself. The fans were smart, they appreciated what they were watching back then. They didn't need the instant gratification of 175 lead changes and cars choked down in horsepower to artificially run side-by-side all day.
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