What will we tell the next generation?

[Billy Chin]

There's a lot of reasons for the decline in popularity. Some of it is indeed the product, IMO, as I have detailed

Some of it is marketing. Some of it is because when IndyCar had bumps in the road NASCAR and F1 zoomed ahead.

None of them are permanent or ultimately debilitating. IndyCar still has much to recommend it, including its superlatives in speed, diversity, and tradition.

In addition, much of what it does need in product as well as marketing can only be improved with an increase in personal, positive endorsements first, such that any antagonists who only nitpick and antagonize are indeed much more part of the problem than they are the solution.

The general public is no more "fully cognizant" of the product than they are aware of how much the Kentucky Derby winner weighs or how many shuttle missions we had or what percentage of the Federal budget goes to foreign aid.

If you have any ideas or specifics for improvement, it would be interesting to hear them. At least as often as we hear your generalized, non-specific and chronic detractions, racefan .

Apparently like you, I've detailed my thoughts regarding an improved product a number of times, so no need to repeat it here. But to compare the public's awareness to such matters as the percentage of the federal budget that is directed to foreign aid or the weight of a Derby winner is nonsense. The sport and the series are well known. Quite well known, in fact. As you believe that personal testimonials are necessary to seeing the sport grow, I believe an honest and candid appraisal of where it is is essential. You should at least consider that approach. You might find it enlightening.

[Turn13]

Apparently like you, I've detailed my thoughts regarding an improved product a number of times, so no need to repeat it here.

A link would seem easy enough. Less trouble than explaining why you can't re-cap it here

I don't have any illusions about where the series is, as I'm usually the one grounding the discussions in actual stats rather than emotional baggage, but I find it fascinating that you can read my mind.

Tell me what I'm thinking now

[Billy Chin]

A link would seem easy enough. Less trouble than explaining why you can't re-cap it here

I don't have any illusions about where the series is, as I'm usually the one grounding the discussions in actual stats rather than emotional baggage, but I find it fascinating that you can read my mind.

Tell me what I'm thinking now

Presumably, that means you'll provide a collection of posts detailing (no generalities, please, as Ive seen those and they offer little of substance)your plan to fix the sport. Really looking forward to your in depth analysis.

Not trying to read your mind in the least. I'd simply be happy to read something of substance, if / when that's presented as an option. And it doesn't need to be now, but it would be nice if occurred sometime.

[Indyknut]

What the stats actually show is that, with the exception of spec cars, all of those things were increasing in IndyCar/CART, even as it grew in attendance and ratings and sponsorships by some 3 to 5% per year. The reason being that NASCAR and F1 had grown much larger and were growing much faster, especially in popularly-generated revenue (TV ratings and attendance) compared to the B2B and civic subsidies in CART.

CART's primary failing was a poor organizational structure. A puppet president whose strings were being pulled by self serving team owners who actually owned the franchises (later shares) in CART. The series was slowly being pulled apart due to a lack of a real leader with a set direction for the series to go.

That was the opportunity that Tony blew. Either make a legitimate offer to buy all the franchises out at the '91 Houston meetings and take control or buy into the series via a franchise and work from within. He did neither and as Racing Truth said

it needed to be far more radical than just a cheaper, oval-only version of CART.

OW racing at the time was pulling an average of 2.5 - 3.0 on network/cable TV. Not the kind of numbers that are capable of being "split" by the creation of a second, competing racing series.

In many ways, even the spec racers were a direct result of that sustained deficiency, as ChampCar determined when it was their turn to try and make the numbers work, and wound up with the DP01 and a raft of Cosworths.

By the time the DP01 came along CCWS was a dead duck. A series attempting to survive by selling a City street carnival that included a race. One need only look at the history of A-L-L the street races in the history of CART pre - 2003 to see that those type of races are very, very fragile. Their continuity is almost soley based on city politics and the acceptance of each race can change every election year. Musical chair venues are no way to build a racing series or a fanbase.

Even before 1996, there was a slow split going on, of popularity moving increasingly towards other series, even as IndyCar maintained appearances. Opinions vary, of course, but it's not that hard to look at the IRL as a misdirected attempt to recapture that popular appeal, as much or more than it was a "powergrab". And for a while, at least, it did inflate the overall number of fans through the gates and on the tube watching one or the other "IndyCar"-based series, though it went down every year and hurt the Indy 500 itself, which it was supposed to protect, more than ever.

And during that time, it was more important than ever for Indy car racing to focus on a direction in the face of that competition. Dividing the fanbase into an us vs them via the creation of a 2nd series was the last thing the sport needed. Furthermore, the transparent attempts of Tony George to appeal to the "oval racing, short track fanbase" as a means of creating a quick following for his races merely solidified that fracture in the fanbase that was not as apparent pre-split. It was the gorilla in the room nobody ever talked about. Too bad that it was all talk. It was about "opportunities" and not about the real changes needed in Indy car racing in order to reattach it to it's short track OW racing roots.

I don't have a problem with the Howards or the Paffs of the boards and their criticism of where the series has gone. The series started by telling those very type of fans that it was going to put the kind of racing on the tracks they wanted to see. It never really did and there's a lot of pizzed off posters, most who don't even bother to show and post here anymore, who have a reason to be.
Their dissatisfaction has been misdirected for years though. They're holding onto to something and wishfully wanting something that hasn't been around for many, many years. Even before the white paper was penned.
NASCAR has the advantage of having a talent pool to draw from that's almost primarily from the US. Nowhere else in the world do they run FE stock type cars on ovals. OTOH, Indy car racing has for many years now, had a talent pool to draw from that spans the entire globe. When you are running road race cars modified slightly in order to run on ovals, you're going to have a glut of talented foreign born race car drivers who couldn't get into F1 in line for rides. Many of those drivers have loads of cash in their pockets to get those rides. I guess it has to do with how foreigners in many countries view racing vs. how racing is viewed in this one. It's not going to change, ever.

The lesson we can all take from this is that when we split, we lose, and when we find ways to work it out and merge / stay together, we at least stop losing as badly Let's try to do more of what brings us together, and avoid saying / doing things that keep us apart.

For the kids of the next generation

Or, we can also learn to always very carefully look before we leap.

[Turn13]

Presumably, that means you'll provide a collection of posts detailing (no generalities, please, as Ive seen those and they offer little of substance)your plan to fix the sport. Really looking forward to your in depth analysis.

Already posted, linked in my post above:

There's a lot of reasons for the decline in popularity. Some of it is indeed the product, IMO, as I have detailed

[Turn13]

CART's primary failing was a poor organizational structure.

Actually, it was a decline in popularity, especially relative to NASCAR and F1. That accelerated with the Split. They coulda been Steve Jobs and Warren Buffet, it wasn't going to work with a Split fanbase trashing each other and turning off prospective new fans.

I don't have a problem with the Howards or the Paffs of the boards and their criticism of where the series has gone. The series started by telling those very type of fans that it was going to put the kind of racing on the tracks they wanted to see.

I do - it was those fans who advocated the Split, and it was those fans who never materialized in the promised numbers. It's also those fans who, along with their counterparts on the other side, continue to stifle growth and extend animosity by perpetuating the antagonism of the Split - from both sides.

[Billy Chin]

Already posted, linked in my post above:

As I mentioned, I've already seen the generic offerings.

[Indyknut]

Actually, it was a decline in popularity, especially relative to NASCAR and F1. That accelerated with the Split. They coulda been Steve Jobs and Warren Buffet, it wasn't going to work with a Split fanbase trashing each other and turning off prospective new fans.

And as we've seen with NASCAR's stellar growth followed by a contraction, sporting fans are fickle. What's hot, new, trendy today isn't so worthy of watching next week or next year. CART actually started hitting its stride at the time of the split and later. They achieved a near 50/50 split in venues. They had multiple manufacturers of chassis, tires and engines wanting into the series. What they lacked was the marquee race that had been in place prior to 1996. Had Indy been on the schedule along with a solid business plan to continue to grow the series, there's no telling what or where OW racing could've been right now.

IMO, Tony's creation of the IRL can be a case history for business classes for years to come, especially in the study of the sports business. It's quite possible his formation of the series along with his methodology of attempting to strong arm CART into participation in the series is one of the biggest sports business blunders of all time. And certainly would rank in the business world as well.

I do - it was those fans who advocated the Split, and it was those fans who never materialized in the promised numbers. It's also those fans who, along with their counterparts on the other side, continue to stifle growth and extend animosity by perpetuating the antagonism of the Split - from both sides.

Promised numbers??? Prior to 1996, they weren't knocking down the doors nor wearing out the turnstyles to get into the local dirt tracks to watch the USAC series nor the WoO. Certainly not the numbers needed to support a racing series that was going to run on big tracks with multiple tens of thousands of attendance needed in order to fill those tracks. That would be on Tony and a lack of research into the potential audience the racing series he was creating could reach.

Then again, just how well did the IRL meet their needs? Perhaps those fans saw nothing more than a cheap copy of CART, RE aero style road race cars modified for oval racing. The early drivers in the IRL all too often were nothing more than CART trained journeymen that couldn't cut it in CART. Too few of the short track guys ever made it to the IRL. The series never made the changes for those guys to make the leap easier, IE; going with a front engine race car. I don't think it's any stretch now to understand that it never was being geared for those fans and instead, was using them until CART capitulated.

[Chris Paff]

That is YOUR preference, Paff. Do not speak for me

And it's the preference of the large majority of American racing fans. It is proven every week.

[Turn13]

And it's the preference of the large majority of American racing fans. It is proven every week.

How do you know it's not the fenders?

USAC and WoO are all-American ovals series, and they don't draw as well as IndyCar does.

[Turn13]

Unfortunately I prefer the same thing, but it died a decade ago. I settle for the watered down version offered today as its all we've got.

Perhaps you can fill me in where there's a faster, more exciting and competitive series that races on ovals.

Guess not

[skypigeon]

What to tell the next generation?

"Enjoy what you have, as it is, while you have it; because like everything else it doesn't last forever."

And probably not too long after that: "They're just geezers with chemically-altered memories. Ignore them."

[BizzyV]

I'm just glad that the split is over and the IMS is on the same page as everyone else. Now, the further we keep those who screwed this up away from control, the better off we are. I think that's what we're arguing about here.