Austin TX F1 track want IndyCar?

[TexManZero]

1 - F1 vs IndyCar: I see this as a good comparison. Set up a straightaway "Speed Trap" and compare IndyCar and F1 times. The same with section times. Get a couple of scoreboards to project the times being turned, and post the "Competition's" best time right next to the scoreboard. It would create interest during both weekends.

2 - TMS vs Austin: Texas certainly has room for both and if Randy keeps TMS where it belongs (after Indy) and speces them apart enough, it shouldn't be a problem, but Randy wants to ditch TMS, so this probably won't be an issue anyway.

3 - Houston vs Austin. A (yawn...) parade versus a real race, I know what I would pick.

4 - Several on this board think this won't happen. I think there are two words that will decide. Red McComb.

I agree with everything except for number one. IndyCar should work in concert with Formula One, not against it. I know some people on here want to show off their package and claim that IndyCar is the pinnacle of open wheel racing when we all know it's not. IndyCar needs to be the American (continent folks; before we start flinging the word "xenophobe" around without realizing what it means) series. Besides, if we work against Formula One, we will lose no matter what. That whole package in Austin will chose F1 over IndyCar every time and twice on Sunday.

[IowaBoyinIndy]

I took this whole thread (and Robin's "report") to mean: "We spent massive amounts of $$$ on this and the ROI is going to be terrible - ie, negative. We must get out of our F1 contract pronto and try to make some of our $$$ back by finding "new investors" and telling them we have a contract with IndyCar or NASCAR or someone so they can bail us out of our stupidity."

[Cyclone]

I think that Austin COTA just wants a full dance card and that they will put out the invite to all major serires.

I know that I am not even thinking about going there for the F1 race, not with NJ annouced. Same with IndyCar, I love it, but I will head to many more IndyCar tracks before I would head to TX.

[smuff76]

You can be sure that Indycar and F1 will not be running together. Why didn't they run Fuji or Suzuka? What (not mentioning a number of CC's other issues) killed CC in China? Korea?

Bernie Ecclestone could give two flips about Red McComb. The man negotiates with heads of state's............. Red McComb is simply another guy who writes Bernie a check. Believe me this is clear to most everyone, including (now) Red McComb.

It's hard to imagine how this would come out 3 days before Roger Penske, Helio Castroneves, Randy Bernard and Shell/Pennzoil make a big announcement that there will be a Houston GP in 2013..............

IowaBoy is pretty darn close. Austin is in deep do-do. They know it. A Houston GP is simply one of a thousand cuts.

It makes no difference how far off the pace Indycar would be to F1 or any of the rest of it. A $40 Indycar ticket can't be at a track with a $250 F1 ticket. Bernie won't allow it.

3 seconds (that 1% can tell the difference in) and $300m.

[Z28]

Here's why some Indycar fans inspire such laughter. Miller says the still not completed Austin F-1 track wants an INDYCAR race and people take that and somehow get to INDYCAR needs to have special aero kits and up the horsepower to be faster than the F-1 cars, which haven't even turned a wheel at the place.

No concern about finding a title sponsor, unless these deep in debt developers of this track just want to lose some more money for an Indycar race, a date or if the thing can stay in business. Yeah the track puts out the word that they want an INDYCAR race just before a Houston race is supposed to be announced, that couldn't just be a publicity ploy some dim bulb SpeedTV bigmouth runs with, so the money troubled track developers make their investors think they have more going on and it won't take centuries for them to make their money back.

[INDY500FAN13]

Here is a "CLEAR" recap to what RM said last night on Wind Tunnel:

- Austin wants INDYCAR (not the other way around)
- Shell / Pennzoil is going to announce something Wednesday about a title sponsorship for a race in Texas somewhere
- Houston could be the 3rd Indycar race in Texas in 2013 (Austin / Houston / TMS)

[Grinder-Tank]

As long as Bernie has an arrangment with this track, IndyCar won't be allowed near it. Take a look at all of the past US Grand Prix events. How far back do you have to go to find one with staying power?

Aside from the chance of Bernie not being satisfied with hotels or restaraunts in the area, the recent history of F1 events in the USA, and the santion fee, perhas some in Texas have figured out the eventual outcome. Austin will eventually be screaming for an IndyCar race after Bernie exterminates the local economy and moves on.

[BizzyV]

While personally I'm not sure if I would be in favor of it (our product vs theirs on the same track, doesn't make us look so great, IMO. At the same time putting the product out in front of all of those fans could only be a good thing) , INDYCAR is not running with F1 on the same weekend. There is no "us vs them." We're worlds different. Also, they win.

[Vasserfan]

Not opposed to Austin in addition to Houston. What I was posting about was those who were saying we should choose Austin over Houston.

All three is fine with me. Texas Triple Crown and the Calfornia triple crown.

[smuff76]

I'm sure Austin is pissed because this is just one more thing that limits their revenue.

[Formula Indy]

COTA is going to be a world class facility. If they want an IICS event let them have one, paying the normal sanction fee. We should not adjust our cars to be more competitive to the F1 cars, we should just run a different circuit configuration to prevent the embarrassment of slower lap times.

[piercey]

Here is a "CLEAR" recap to what RM said last night on Wind Tunnel:

- Austin wants INDYCAR (not the other way around)

A permanent facility is showing interest in IndyCar. Never a bad thing. If it can be fit onto the schedule and makes since for all parties involved then why not?

- Shell / Pennzoil is going to announce something Wednesday about a title sponsorship for a race in Texas somewhere

A new title sponsor! Always a good thing. The in Texas somewhere part is a little vague, but I can't see them taking TMS considering where their US base is at. So...

- Houston could be the 3rd Indycar race in Texas in 2013 (Austin / Houston / TMS)

My opinions on parking lot tracks I've aired in other threads. However if this leads Shell to sponsoring a Texas Triple crown with an oval, permanent road, and temporary street circuit? DO IT!

[irloyal]

...snip
Bernie Ecclestone could give two flips about Red McComb. The man negotiates with heads of state's............. Red McComb is simply another guy who writes Bernie a check. Believe me this is clear to most everyone, including (now) Red McComb.

...snip

IowaBoy is pretty darn close. Austin is in deep do-do. They know it. ...snip

It makes no difference how far off the pace Indycar would be to F1 or any of the rest of it. A $40 Indycar ticket can't be at a track with a $250 F1 ticket. Bernie won't allow it.

3 seconds (that 1% can tell the difference in) and $300m.

IMHO the part you miss here Smurf is that Red and the other investors really don't give a damn about Bernie and F1 if the project doesn't turn a profit. Red is the juice, genius and ego behind this. The investor group got what they wanted in up-front funds to get the facility built. Red cut Bernie a BIG check to make sure they got their government funds, and to show the politicos that he will pay his share and arm wrestle the little big man from F1. Now the investor group produces their one F1 show, get some other series lined up, and use it to leverage the next F1 circus if Bernie wants to bring it to town again.

Red and the rest of the gang will do what they need to do to get the operation on a paying basis. I'm sure Red doesn't give a flip about Bernie's negotiations with heads of state in Bahrain or whothehellcaresastan. The investors want races in Texas on this track that will generate some regular income over time.

[Spike]

IMHO the part you miss here Smurf...

Smurf?

[BuddyCarSeries]

Well the V8 Supercars are going to Austin in January of 2013. This could be the early season date we have been looking for. I doubt the V8 Supercars race will draw a big crowd (even though it should V8 Supercars racing is some of the best racing EVER). The V8's could have a full race Saturday, the ALMS have a 1000 KM race into the saturday night. Then V8's could have a sprint race Sunday morning then the IndyCar race at 2PM.

[smuff76]

IMHO the part you miss here Smurf is that Red and the other investors really don't give a damn about Bernie and F1 if the project doesn't turn a profit. Red is the juice, genius and ego behind this. The investor group got what they wanted in up-front funds to get the facility built. Red cut Bernie a BIG check to make sure they got their government funds, and to show the politicos that he will pay his share and arm wrestle the little big man from F1. Now the investor group produces their one F1 show, get some other series lined up, and use it to leverage the next F1 circus if Bernie wants to bring it to town again.

Red and the rest of the gang will do what they need to do to get the operation on a paying basis. I'm sure Red doesn't give a flip about Bernie's negotiations with heads of state in Bahrain or whothehellcaresastan. The investors want races in Texas on this track that will generate some regular income over time.

They don't give a damn about Bernie? They are building a $300m race track for him! It certainly isn't for Indycar, ALMS or NASCAR. Bernie could care less if they ever go back to Austin........ he got what he really wanted, just across the river from NY. Austin is nothing but another check to him.

If it doesn't turn a profit the investors are completely SCREWED. There is very little chance of remotely paying the place off without F1.

I am sorry to tell you, but you don't leverage Bernie Ecclestone.......... On top of that, what leverage does Austin actually have?

He just dared Australia to walk away from their $50m sanction fee............

He's basically walked away from 1/2 the tracks in F1's "historical base" of Europe. He will have no problems walking away from Austin.

Bernie doesn't give a flip about his negotiations with heads of states either. There's a sucker around every corner for Bernie. Red is simply the latest sucker.

[irloyal]

They don't give a damn about Bernie? They are building a $300m race track for him! It certainly isn't for Indycar, ALMS or NASCAR. Bernie could care less if they ever go back to Austin........ he got what he really wanted, just across the river from NY. Austin is nothing but another check to him.

If it doesn't turn a profit the investors are completely SCREWED. There is very little chance of remotely paying the place off without F1.

I am sorry to tell you, but you don't leverage Bernie Ecclestone.......... On top of that, what leverage does Austin actually have?

He just dared Australia to walk away from their $50m sanction fee............

He's basically walked away from 1/2 the tracks in F1's "historical base" of Europe. He will have no problems walking away from Austin.

Bernie doesn't give a flip about his negotiations with heads of states either. There's a sucker around every corner for Bernie. Red is simply the latest sucker.

Provide 1 F1 race; get 1/6th of the investment back from the state. - Check
Arrange other series to race at venue - In process
Demonstrate to politicos that autoracing is good for Texas - In process

Bernie? Bernie who? The F1 show got the investment from the state. If The facility can sucker a few big foreign corporate honcho's into paying the outrageous $800 to $1000 per seat for good seats at the F1 race. Then line up ALMS or Grand Am or IndyCar or "GASP" NASCAR to race at the track....

[irloyal]

Smurf?

How about 76? I'm not big on typing full names.

-irl

[Spike]

How about 76?

How about "smuff," then, instead of "Smurf."

I'm not big on typing full names.

Yeah, I hear you. Those people with seven letter names sure are asking a lot.

[smuff76]

Provide 1 F1 race; get 1/6th of the investment back from the state. - Check
Arrange other series to race at venue - In process
Demonstrate to politicos that autoracing is good for Texas - In process

Bernie? Bernie who? The F1 show got the investment from the state. If The facility can sucker a few big foreign corporate honcho's into paying the outrageous $800 to $1000 per seat for good seats at the F1 race. Then line up ALMS or Grand Am or IndyCar or "GASP" NASCAR to race at the track....

The METF is the investment from the state......... has nothing to do with F1. You could get one for an Indycar race as well, IIRC.

Even if the COTA somehow cleared $50m from the F1 race, do you really think ALMS or Grand Am (you'll only have 1), Indycar and NASCAR are going to pay off the rest of the $250m?

[Sea Fury]

Ferrari might just come to Indycar too...... if the FIA keeps making them mad..........

Ferrari (FIAT) may build an aerokit and/or build or badge an engine at some point, but make no mistake: FERRARI WILL NOT LEAVE FORMULA 1 FOR INDY. Ferrari exists to go Grand Prix racing. Everything else they do is a means to that end.

[Spike]

Ferrari (FIAT) may build an aerokit and/or build or badge an engine at some point...

Never going to happen.

[Sea Fury]

Never going to happen.

Neither was Lotus making the St. Pete starting grid, according to some.

[Spike]

Altogether different thing.

[red5champ]

I definately think they should arce at Austin. If within Austin there is an F1 fan base after the race then indy car would be good too. not only that it will be a state of the art track.

[smuff76]

Ferrari (FIAT) may build an aerokit and/or build or badge an engine at some point, but make no mistake: FERRARI WILL NOT LEAVE FORMULA 1 FOR INDY. Ferrari exists to go Grand Prix racing. Everything else they do is a means to that end.

There is no way in hell, but it doesn't stop them from pulling the "Indycard" once or twice a year. I was being sarcastic in my initial comment.

In fact, I think it has been a few months since he has pulled the "Indycard", so I would say we are due for one in the next 6 weeks.

[Jakester]

To address the actual thread, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that the Circuit of the Americas investors certainly would like to have as many events at their track as possible. They will have a huge amount of money tied up in construction and operation of the track. I'm sure they're reaching out to IndyCar, ALMS, GrandAm, NASCAR and any other sanctioning bodies that could potentially hold events at the track that will bring in income. Wouldn't be suprised if some of the potentials are limited by the F1 agreement.

The F1 show got the investment from the state.

From what I've gathered, the change in 'ownership' of COTA and the F1 event put a large dent in planned/actual local and state government investment. The new ownership group continues to pursue government investment/funding, but it's not a done deal. The Major Events Tax Fund money has not been disbursed nor has it been formally approved as the new ownership has not applied for METF at this time.

Examples:

In a letter to city and county officials, developer Ed Wendler Jr. and former County Judge Bill Aleshire compared the Apple incentives to the Formula One track being built southeast of Austin. F1 organizers said they will seek $25 million annually in state subsidies, a deal they said state law would allow only if a local government — the city in this case — fronted money for infrastructure. The $4 million was to be paid back through additional taxes the event is projected to generate.
The council came close to approving the deal, but after a public outcry and other complications, F1 organizers agreed to cover the 
$4 million.

http://www.statesman.com/news/local/..._ece_frontpage

However, by the end of August, the project began to face challenges. The World Motorsports Council moved the date of the first race in Austin from June 2012 to November 2012. This voided any application for METF money, as such a request legally could come no earlier than one year before the event.

“The money is still available in the trust fund, the process is still open to us, and the comptroller has been very clear that we are welcome to apply for that and be evaluated as before,” said Hahn.

http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/investi...financial-role

[Nigel Red5]

I agree. I'd much rather see Austin as opposed to Houston or another St. Pete.

I agree, from a racing standpoint. The problem lies with actual attendance. Will a race in Austin draw +/- 75K attendees for two or three days?? Without large sponsorship, the events hinge on ticket sales.Bernie argued long ago that F1 could be just as profitable with a race at paul ricard with Zero attendees as he could with 100K. Indycar isn't far from that very scenario and many races. Currently, Indycar hasn't proven it can be successful at either. They have to decide which one is more important. Land the sponsorship needed to hold the race, erect stands for on site fans, or gear the event towards being successful on televison and essentially forgo the on site attendance.

[irloyal]

How about "smuff," then, instead of "Smurf."

Yeah, I hear you. Those people with seven letter names sure are asking a lot.

Oh well, time for the glasses when browsing the net. Apologies to smuff....lol

[irloyal]

To address the actual thread, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that the Circuit of the Americas investors certainly would like to have as many events at their track as possible. They will have a huge amount of money tied up in construction and operation of the track. I'm sure they're reaching out to IndyCar, ALMS, GrandAm, NASCAR and any other sanctioning bodies that could potentially hold events at the track that will bring in income. Wouldn't be suprised if some of the potentials are limited by the F1 agreement.


From what I've gathered, the change in 'ownership' of COTA and the F1 event put a large dent in planned/actual local and state government investment. The new ownership group continues to pursue government investment/funding, but it's not a done deal. The Major Events Tax Fund money has not been disbursed nor has it been formally approved as the new ownership has not applied for METF at this time.

Examples:

http://www.statesman.com/news/local/..._ece_frontpage


http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/investi...financial-role

Thanks for the leads Jake.
I don't live inthe area, I just know McComb by his reputation and actions, and I know he's gonna do what needs to be done. He's an action guy and while he's not dishonest (to my knowledge) in his dealings, he certainly can be a bulldog, and has never let politicos or weenies like Bernie stop him.