Should ICS adopt CCWS' attitude with the schedule?

[lizardfolk]

I was always more of a ChampCar fan than an IRL fan. I was one of those who "converted" to ICS because of the unification...

So... let me ask all of you a question...

What is wrong with this schedule?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Champ_Car_season

Those of you who want "only American" races, do you really think emulating this kind of schedule would actually destroy the ICS all over again? Seems ChampCar didn't merge with IRL and more just died while IRL just continued with ICS. Was the CCWS just that vile to IndyCar fans?

Honestly, most if not all of those tracks for road courses are good and better than the road courses IndyCar has right now. Why can't we have 10 of those venues then add on 7-8 ovals?

[Ferrari]

What is wrong with this schedule?

8 of 14 races are outside of the United States.

[uncommonsense52]

I was always more of a ChampCar fan than an IRL fan. I was one of those who "converted" to ICS because of the unification...

So... let me ask all of you a question...

What is wrong with this schedule?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Champ_Car_season

Those of you who want "only American" races, do you really think emulating this kind of schedule would actually destroy the ICS all over again? Seems ChampCar didn't merge with IRL and more just died while IRL just continued with ICS. Was the CCWS just that vile to IndyCar fans?

I'm also a converted ChampCar fan, of sorts, but one big flaw in that schedule is the lack of ovals.

Oval racing is what sets us apart from any other open wheel formula series out there.

Personally, I think a hybrid of that 2008 ChampCar season, 2005 IndyCar season, and 2012 would be nice.

With that 08 season, there's a lot going for it. The return of Laguna Seca. Cleveland, Long Beach, Road America and Portland are on the schedule, which are iconic America Road Courses/Temporary Courses. Almost the same thing, Surfer's Paradise, while not being American, was always a gem in Amercian Open Wheel Racing. There's a beefy international presence, which I very much think the series should have.

And then with the 2005 IndyCar season, you have many ovals of differing types to choose from. Indianapolis of course. Gateway. Milwaukee, Michigan, Texas, Motegi. I'm not a big oval fan personally, but if you give me different types of ovals, that will present different challenges, I'm in.

And then in 2012 we have a few additions that I think should stay. Sao Paulo, Barber, Baltimore...

[lizardfolk]

8 of 14 races are outside of the United States.

So you'd rather have a boring (comparatively of course) Mid-Ohio than a fantastic Surfers Paradise just because it's located in Australia?...

I'm also a converted ChampCar fan, of sorts, but one big flaw in that schedule is the lack of ovals.

Glad to see I'm not the only one. Yes I agree that the old CCWS' lack of ovals is a major flaw in the schedule. But the CCWS' schedule's road courses are all fantastic despite the fact that many of them weren't in the US. I honestly don't understand why you wouldn't want a track like Assen or Surfers Paradise just because it's not American when it creates better racing than many american circuits.

[Ferrari]

So you'd rather have a boring (comparatively of course) Mid-Ohio than a fantastic Surfers Paradise just because it's located in Australia?...

I like Surfers. But Mid-Ohio would be air during the middle of the day. While Surfers would air during the middle of the night. It's all about exposure.

Though, I'd give up Mid-Ohio for Cleveland.

[lizardfolk]

I like Surfers. But Mid-Ohio would be air during the middle of the day. While Surfers would air during the middle of the night. It's all about exposure.

Though, I'd give up Mid-Ohio for Cleveland.

You can record or TiVo it?

[goldie19]

I would prefer a schedule devoid of street races. Notoriously bad for passing. Proof, as if it's needed, is Bourdais running 6th, 15 seconds behind the leaders a short time after a restart, and having the entire field bottled up behind him. This to me is simply not racing. It's one thing to be held off by a driver of high skill, it's another to be simply stuck because there is no room to pass except for 1 or 2 places over a 2 mile stretch

[goldie19]

You can record or TiVo it?

Advertisers are not interested in you TiVo-ing the race. They know you skip the ads

[mlauman20]

What is wrong with this schedule?

It went out of business . . .

[lizardfolk]

It went out of business . . .

IRL wasn't really doing much better. Pretty sure the "All-American" formula for that failed too

Advertisers are not interested in you TiVo-ing the race. They know you skip the ads

Oh dear how does F1, WTCC, and GT1 manage?

[NoDoorsNoDales]

ChampCar proved that street races do not increase the casual fan base. Sure they would get good race crowds, but the was most likely just something to do for the locals that weekend. Yet week after week and year after year the TV ratings would stay the same,low.

[houstonracefan]

I was always more of a ChampCar fan than an IRL fan. I was one of those who "converted" to ICS because of the unification...

So... let me ask all of you a question...

What is wrong with this schedule?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Champ_Car_season

Those of you who want "only American" races, do you really think emulating this kind of schedule would actually destroy the ICS all over again? Seems ChampCar didn't merge with IRL and more just died while IRL just continued with ICS. Was the CCWS just that vile to IndyCar fans?

Honestly, most if not all of those tracks for road courses are good and better than the road courses IndyCar has right now. Why can't we have 10 of those venues then add on 7-8 ovals?

Nothing wrong with it at all! I'd LOVE a schedule like that

[lizardfolk]

ChampCar proved that street races do not increase the casual fan base. Sure they would get good race crowds, but the was most likely just something to do for the locals that weekend. Yet week after week and year after year the TV ratings would stay the same,low.

Well... very valid answer... but does the IndyCar's current schedule provide a larger casual fanbase? The racing is a bit more boring than ChampCar races at Zolder, Assen, or Surfers

Nothing wrong with it at all! I'd LOVE a schedule like that

Oh thank god! I thought I'd gone insane for a minute

[Baulz]

IRL wasn't really doing much better. Pretty sure the "All-American" formula for that failed too



Oh dear how does F1, WTCC, and GT1 manage?

F1 has changed the time of several races so that it is shown at a more reasonable time in Europe. Australia and Malaysia for example now start a few hours later in the day than they used to.

To bo honest I prefer night race anyways during the summer, it's hard to spend a nice sunny Sunday afternoon on the couch watching tv.

[Gizmologist]

I think they really need to get Road America, Laguna Seca, and Cleveland back on the schedule. All three were awesome venues and offered lots of racing highlights.

[lizardfolk]

To bo honest I prefer night race anyways during the summer, it's hard to spend a nice sunny Sunday afternoon on the couch watching tv.

Agreed.

[piercey]

Oh dear how does F1, WTCC, and GT1 manage?

GT1 sure as hell doesn't. They have two feet in the grave and the coffin is being lowered...

Back on topic: the one thing this series needs more then anything from that schedule is the classic tracks that got lost in the merger. Laguna, Cleveland, Mont-Tremblant, Portland, and Road America would all be great additions.

As an aside: a domestic series, no matter where it is in the world, should NEVER end it's season outside of the "home" country. It was a bad idea when Champ Car tried it, it was a bad idea then DTM tried it, and hopefully IndyCar will not try it anytime soon.

[mlauman20]

IRL wasn't really doing much better. Pretty sure the "All-American" formula for that failed too

Hey, I watched it all, IRL, Champcar, CART, . . . doesn't change the fact that 2-3 years of that schedule put them out of business. I'd love to replace some of our concrete canyons with some of these great permanent facilities, but it does not change the fact that this schedule put Champcar out of business.

Game Over Man, let it go, it's OK, you've got to take this Indycar stuff 1 year at a time, open wheel in America may look OK on the surface, but underneath its fighting to stay alive.

[lizardfolk]

As an aside: a domestic series, no matter where it is in the world, should NEVER end it's season outside of the "home" country. It was a bad idea when Champ Car tried it, it was a bad idea then DTM tried it, and hopefully IndyCar will not try it anytime soon.

Define domestic... because I've always considered IndyCar an international series rather than a regional series. That said, I do think Indy should start and end in the states

Game Over Man, let it go, it's OK, you've got to take this Indycar stuff 1 year at a time, open wheel in America may look OK on the surface, but underneath its fighting to stay alive.

Surfers Paradise, atleast one race in Asia (i think Qingdao is staying), 2 races in Canada and 2 races in Latin America is all I ask. Does that sound unreasonable for me to ask atleast? I'm not even for IndyCar going to Europe but a strong fanbase in Australia and Latin American is as important as a strong fanbase in America

[houstonracefan]

Define domestic... because I've always considered IndyCar an international series rather than a regional series. That said, I do think Indy should start and end in the states

that is where I disagree with you.

If we want to call our champion a world champion, I'd like the final race to be out of the USA. I'd prefer Australia. They used to host the F1 world championship finale, so why not let Surfers host the IndyCar finale?

[lizardfolk]

that is where I disagree with you.

If we want to call our champion a world champion, I'd like the final race to be out of the USA. I'd prefer Australia. They used to host the F1 world championship finale, so why not let Surfers host the IndyCar finale?

I think IndyCar should end in the states but if it ends out of the states I'm not fussed. Honestly, a "world" champion should be crowned after visiting more than 3 countries overall however

[Z28]

ChampCar proved that street races do not increase the casual fan base. Sure they would get good race crowds, but the was most likely just something to do for the locals that weekend. Yet week after week and year after year the TV ratings would stay the same,low.

Thank you for noticing. Yet it seems we add more street races to the IICS schedule. Here's a question for the proponent of getting back to a Champ car schedule. The attendance at Baltimore was reported probably close to ten times that of Milwaukee. Will the TV ratings from St. Pete show the numbers in Baltimore any different than those in Milwaukee? Shouldn't they be substantially more not only due to attendance but because Baltimore was a street course like St. Pete and Milwaukee an oval?

Well... very valid answer... but does the IndyCar's current schedule provide a larger casual fanbase? The racing is a bit more boring than ChampCar races at Zolder, Assen, or Surfers



Oh thank god! I thought I'd gone insane for a minute

That argument makes the assumptions that there is a casual Indycar fan base, that the current schedule is boring and the more dedicated fans of the series want races without regard where they are located. And they're wrong assumptions. In the days when CART started going to Australia the series could deal with having one race that didn't register on TV on Saturday at midnight. They had 14 other strong races in the US and Canada. The current series can't really afford one unless it pays the series enough of a profit to help the profits. Stop trying to recreate the past because it worked for a brief period under very different circumstances.

[redfalconf35]

I was always more of a ChampCar fan than an IRL fan. I was one of those who "converted" to ICS because of the unification...

So... let me ask all of you a question...

What is wrong with this schedule?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Champ_Car_season

Those of you who want "only American" races, do you really think emulating this kind of schedule would actually destroy the ICS all over again? Seems ChampCar didn't merge with IRL and more just died while IRL just continued with ICS. Was the CCWS just that vile to IndyCar fans?

Honestly, most if not all of those tracks for road courses are good and better than the road courses IndyCar has right now. Why can't we have 10 of those venues then add on 7-8 ovals?

IICS would last approximately 2 years before bankrupting if they did that.

Why?

Because if people want to watch an international series primarily of road and street courses, they already have a better option! It's called F1.

Turning Indycar into an American based alternative to GP2 doesn't work, that's one reason why CCWS fell apart.

Yes, travel abroad on occasion, where it makes financial sense, and where it doesn't get in the way of the best American time slots (May, June, July). However, you have to recognize that a vast majority of the revenue-creating fanbase is located between San Diego and Bangor.

[lkchris]

If we want to call our champion a world champion ...

Who wants to do that?

There's only one "world champion" in motor racing.

Enough with the wannbe junk--it's not a positive thing for Indycar.

[Chris Paff]

that is where I disagree with you.

If we want to call our champion a world champion, I'd like the final race to be out of the USA. I'd prefer Australia. They used to host the F1 world championship finale, so why not let Surfers host the IndyCar finale?

Who wants to call our champion a world champion? This is an American based series.

Surfers sure is a nice view but the racing is horrible.

[paper]

they are going where they lose the least money,, thats the CCWS part that still exists.. They will go where a promoter is found that makes the event successful,, right now the schedule is as close as they can get,

[Chris Paff]

When will you Champ Car fans learn. Road Racing is not popular in this country. Your series went bankrupted twice. Yet you want to try it for the 3rd time. Amazing

[FlatOut]

When will you Champ Car fans learn. Road Racing is not popular in this country. Your series went bankrupted twice. Yet you want to try it for the 3rd time. Amazing

And the IRL oval series went t**s up too while TG got kicked to the curb with a Texan boot.
When will you learn, Open wheel on ovals is not popular in this country.

[Chris Paff]

And the IRL oval series went t**s up too while TG got kicked to the curb with a Texan boot.
When will you learn, Open wheel on ovals in America is not popular in this country.

Open wheel oval racing is much more popular then road racing. Just look at the minor leagues. People actually pay to attend USAC and WOO races not so much for F2000, Star Mazda, and lower formula's.

[Vasserfan]

We will never change Paff's mind, so I will quit trying.

As for CART schedules, here is what was the best schedule ever in US Open wheel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_CART_season

The 1999 CART scheule was great. 20 races, 9 ovals (8 ovals and 1 "Roval), 6 streets, 1 airport, and 4 natural road courses. Yes folks, that is 45% ovals for CART. Add Indy to that and it would be a near perfect schedule.

It had MIS and Fontana. It had short ovals and a couple 1.5 mile ovals. What a great schedule. Hopefully we can get back to this balance.