Must be why that IRL thing is still around, you know, all of those popular, well attended IC oval races. The 7,000 that bothered to show up for Vegas last year probably all shuttle bused together. And those were freebies.Originally Posted by Tim Richmond
Why don't you just go watch NASCAR Chris? After all, the Americans are there, the ovals are there and so is that shining American star named Sam Hornish.
Vasser, im just stating facts. There is little demand for road racing in this country. Yet Indycar should have half or more of it's schedule comprised of a form of racing that Americans are not interested in?
Why would oval fans show up in large numbers to watch a field full of inexperienced oval drivers attempt to race on the high banks? We all know that have little interest in oval racing and hold their noses to the idea. Hell they are currently trying to kill the popular Texas race.
I watch all forms of racing. NASCAR is just one of the series that I follow. Indycar needs all the fans they can get currently so telling me to just watch NASCAR is not very bright.
Its not about being bright, its about watching what you yearn for. The IRL and Sam Hornish aren't coming back.... EVER, EVER. Get over it Chris.
History repeats itself, I would never say ever. If Indycar was smart it sure would change directions quick because trying to be CART/Champ Car is not working.
So can you!
But seriously, if I want to watch road course racing at 4am I prefer to watch F1.
Sam said he is finished, ka-poot,done for good in OW. Keep wearing that IRL coat and shirt while sporting your Billy Boat hat, keep the hope
Sam would wipe the floor if he decided to comeback to the Indy 500.Sam said he is finished, ka-poot,done for good in OW. Keep wearing that IRL coat and shirt while sporting your Billy Boat hat, keep the hope
He is not, he said it himself many, many times, hell he just said it yesterday on SpeedTV, hes totaly done, whiped his hands of OW. And Sams got better things to do that weekend, like winning the Coke 600. Did you really get a tramp stamp on your lower back of Sams face? I heard that, set the record straight for us. And no, the IRL is not coming back, ever.Sam would wipe the floor if he decided to comeback to the Indy 500.
It gets really tedious arguing about whacko perceptions passed off as gospel with those predisposed to all things anti-Indy establishment.
First, any perception that ovals are not popular is ludicrous. Almost all of NASCAR’s schedule is composed of them. With regard to IndyCar, the largest attended race in the world is held at the end of every May. Texas Motor Speedway has drawn 75,000 to 100,000 every time out for fifteen years. Iowa sells every seat they have for IndyCar. Other well attended oval venues have been dropped for dubious reasons. Is there really any valid reason why venues such as Kentucky, Richmond or many others should not be on the schedule? Randy may want more ovals, but his job is more difficult when prominent owners go on the record saying their idea of balance us 1/3 ovals, 1/3 streets and 1/3 road courses. That is not balance. Balance is 50% ovals and 50% non-ovals, of which 25% would be streets and 25% road courses. Factually, we are not there and getting there is unsupported by current trends.
Second, the IRL ‘failed’ only in the deluded, twisted minds of those who want to make themselves feel better that the series they held as their model actually did fail twice specifically because they turned their backs on the one place that gave them all of their legitimacy. Today’s IZOD IndyCar Series is a continuation of the IRL. ‘IRL’ no longer exists as a corporate entity solely because leadership wanted to appease martyred enthusiasts of the twice failed offshoot series. The IRL did not fail. As a matter of fact, it bailed out remnants of the two series that actually did fail and mercifully deemed it ‘reunification.’ Just once I wish its critics could practice humility and be thankful for the charity they received.
Third, there were far more than 7,000 in attendance at Las Vegas. Those of us who were actually there can attest to that. The 142,000 seats they have were not close to filled, but the suites were, as were shaded seats and lots of others. An Iowa crowd at Iowa is impressive. An Iowa crowd at Vegas is not impressive simply based on the fact that you would need four Iowa crowds to make most of the critics less whiny.
Fourth, it is ludicrous in just about every way to pine for a schedule run mostly outside the United States, particularly on non-ovals. That model is a proven failure for everything except Formula 1. My suggestion: Dust off the DP-01s or Reynards or whatever you can dig up, form a new series, then distance yourselves from Indy. I would suggest something with the word ‘Formula’ in it. Glomming onto the Indy coattail for something that was not close to Indy just does not work for me or the general public. Call it ‘Formula USA’ or ‘Formula Americas’ or something glamorous, then have it. Let me know how it works out. Better yet, embrace all things Indy and thrive. Shelve the pompous arrogance and work toward common goals for once.
Fifth, most actual IndyCar fans have evolved with the times. We enjoyed drivers like Sam Hornish and Billy Boat (or whatever other cutesy stereotype gets ignorantly foisted) when they competed. Now that they don’t there is a whole field of drivers from many walks of life we can support. My current intriguing favorite at the moment is Josef Newgarden, an American who is good at both road racing and ovals driving for the little team that could. Their debut at St. Pete was impressive.
-The Skimming Dung From The Swimming Pool Disciple of INDYCAR
We need another split...
I would support one.
you should start a new series,you seem to know what it takes. you could be the next bill france.I would support one.
and the irl proved the same running all ovals. now what? i think we're f*****.
That explains a lot.I would support one.
"Young enough not to care too much about the way things used to be.
I'm young enough to remember the future. The past has no claim on me.
I'm old enough not to care too much about what you think of me.
But I'm young enough to remember the future. The way things ought to be."
Ovals are popular. INDYCAR on ovals is not.
Going Nuclear and adopting the CART model or the IRL model isn't the answer. Somewhere in between is the happy place where new fans come into the series and old fans stop complaining.
You are incorrect Tim.
Indy Car is a street racing series. Which literally nobody on the planet is interested in.
Indy Car has basically given up on road courses too.
Prime Minister of Gackland
1. Actually, if you knew anything about American racing, you'd know that Sam won't be running in the Coke 600 on Memorial Day weekend in 2012.
2. So what if he did? Sam actually had FANS. He actually accomplished something in Indy Cars. He won the Indy 500. If Tim wants to tattoo Sam's sideburns on his butt, then so what? Race FANS do those sorts of things sometimes, for drivers why like watching. Indy Car could use a few drivers like that.
People need to get off of Sam's case. He is a multiple-time champion in Indy Cars. He won the Indy 500. He has nothing left to prove in Indy Cars. He's in America's #1 racing entity now and has plenty to prove there. His career will finish in the Cup series, just like the thousands of other American racers would like to.
stop lying, Paff
How is that a lie?
You'd better back that up.
"The series may be hesitant to say it, but the day is here for everybody that loves IndyCar racing to link arms and help each other out. Anybody who doesn’t want to do that needs to find something else to do with their time.”
-- Eddie Gossage, President, Texas Motor Speedway, ICONIC Advisory Committee & TrackForum member
Explain, then, how F1 gets a tv contract without even racing in America, and attracts over 100k fans to the race when it does?
Why don't USAC or WoO get live TV or attract 100k?
I regularly buy tickets in advance for WoO and USAC Silver Crown...and I'm not the only one.
As for the TV contract argument, that's not their place in the food chain. It's like asking why the Indianapolis Indians are never featured on ESPN's Sunday Night Baseball. People do buy tickets for ovals. It happens every weekend all across the nation.
Those who are unconvinced might find this to be a fun homework assignment. Here's a pretty good list of tracks that are operating in the US. Why not see which are ovals vs. which are road/street and then compare how many dates they run, etc.?
http://speedwaysonline.com/tracks/category/all-tracks/
No man can cause more grief than that one clinging blindly to the vices of his ancestors. - William Faulker
when he consistently says open wheel oval racing is more popular than open wheel road racing in this country. I am basing my accusation on attendance figures from events such as Long Beach/Mid Ohio vs the traditional ovals like Milwaukee. Even events like Las Vegas did worse than many of the road racing venues on the series. It is also based upon TV ratings where the road races showed a gain last year while the ovals did not. Some ovals even had a drop in TV ratings.
Perhaps lie was too strong of a word, maybe unfounded opinion may have been a better choice of words
Seems to me one's place in the foodchain is determined by popularity, not the other way around.
What's wrong with the schedule???
Was to have been. The series failed miserably. CCWS was loaded with TBA races, TBA drivers, musical chair drivers, musical chair sponsors, musical chair events, etc. Financed by 2 guys that got tired of paying for it out of their pockets. Not exactly a good example of a successful racing series.The 2008 Champ Car season was to have been the 30th season of the series.
Wow I knew you didn't have much respect for the current crop of OW drivers but this takes the cake. I'll think I'll take Smoke's opinion (You can't just hop in a car and expect to compete right away against those guys) against your slanted anti foreigner bias. Were definitely not the most popular form of racing but our drivers get a ton of respect from others in the motor sports community.Sam would wipe the floor if he decided to comeback to the Indy 500.
Very correct. He's gone out of his way to announce he has no interest in coming back period. Move on people. And while its early I'd almost add Danica to the list (always stout at the 500) after DW's death.
Great attitude. So the 1 pt ratings we get currently on ESPN and .4 we get on NBC can become even more miniscule and meaningless?? Get a life dude. Or better yet grow a set and ask for your old screen name back.I would support one.
I'd rather have 10% of the world interested in the ICS than 50% of US that NASCAR currently has
WoO runs pretty much every weekend from February to the beginning of November, crosses the nation and back and seems to be at many of the same venues the same weekends every year. Must be doing something right. You and T13 (?) can make this same point time and again but it doesn't change the fact that people who go to WoO like what they see by and large and seem to be repeat customers. I've never heard anyone or talked to anyone at a WoO show say they wished they were more like IndyCar. WoO fans are generally happy with where their series is; wouldn't it be nice if a plurality of IICS fans were similarly convicted?
The mere fact that IICS hardcore loyalists are aiming down at targets like WoO is a saddening development in and of itself. The argument is a strawman.
I think the American public is telling us all we need to know about their interest in the current product.
Maybe if we would have blown the whole thing up years ago and started over from scratch, with a formula and "vision" Americans might eventually get interested in again, we would actually be in better shape today. Trying to reincarnate the CART series doesn't seem to be working in the least. Those days are also over with too.
WoO knows their place in the AOW world. They know what they are and what they aren't and they do what they do very well. They aren't throwing darts up against the dartboard trying to figure out what kind of series they are. They aren't doing one thing one year, doing another thing the next year and then trying something else the next year.
They aren't the top rung of AOW and don't pretend to be. But they do a lot of things correctly and Indy Car could learn a few things from them on how to keep a viable business going year-after-year-after-year and keep your fanbase interested year-after-year-after-year.
Already did, they said they would not give it back
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