If it ain't broke, don't fix it.Originally Posted by Ernest Miller
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
RIP Daniel Clive Wheldon, 2005 & 2011 Indianapolis 500 Champion
Throwing out ideas how to improve things isn't bad. They just have to be well thought out ideas and some aren't.
Rarely can you fix anything by making it more compliacted. Usually the best solutions are the simple ones. Invert by points. Easy. You know the starting order for the next race the minute the checkered flag falls. No math, no sliding scales, no equivilency formulas, no B & M and no crying. Take the points table and turn it upside down. Easy, and it would work.
Doc.
"Is that my *** that I smell burning?" ... Helmet Stogie from "Death spasms of the Mabuchi"
So true. It's best to avoid compliactions whenever possible.
However, it is also true that:
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.
- H. L. Mencken
"The IRL's future should be good, but it can't be the grass-roots series Tony George envisioned. That was a wet dream." - Bobby Unser
My problem with messing with qualifying is that I don't think it actually accomplishes much, at least not as far as improving ratings and attendance are concerned. So far the product has been pretty entertaining, as least insofar as is adjustable via qualifying format changes. Sure, road racing may not be someone's particular brand of vodka, but as road racing goes, it's been entertaining. Finding ways to sell that interesting product to viewers is the trick.
At some point, you can have to go out and sell your product, rather than trying to maneuver your product into the path of perceived demand through a strong of tweaks and compromises. One path gives you cars like the Cadillac CTS. The other gives you the Pontiac Aztek. You may not all love the CTS, but pretty much nobody loved the Aztek.
IndyCar should ways be looking for ways to improve the product, sure, but so far this year, that seems to be mostly taking care of itself. They need to focus their energy on selling that solid product to the public.
I disagree. With no qualifying, more cars are out on track which makes it far more interesting for the paying customer. Ernest
Looking at TV ratings and track attendance over the past ten years suggests otherwise. Ernest
What do you think the rating for the "draft" would be?
Sort of like when politicians are afraid of raising taxes so they call the new tax a surcharge?
Might as well make them all one day shows then
Uhhh, I was assuming comments on the original idea was all that was required to join in.
Faster than a bullet from a gun
He is faster than everyone
Quicker than the blinking of an eye
Like a flash you could miss him going by
No one knows quite how he does it but it's true they say
He's the master of going faster. -George Harrison
Probably a zero since no one would want to show it. I'm not sure I would even watch it but that is beside the point. The purpose of the draft is to insure each driver has approximately the same starting position throughout the season as everyone of his competitiors. It levels the playing field in a fair way. I never said it would be "must watch" TV. Ernest
Shame on you. You have transgressed the unwritten law.
It is but it doesn't add anything to the discussion does it? When you say you don't like something you should state your reasons why, something most of the posters were unable to do. Ernest
This is motorsports...with all do respect, that isn't a very good idea.
First thing that comes to mind is part timers. Obviously some idea could be reached, but it just becomes more and more complicated, confusing, and fake. 1/2 the people on message boards can't even comprehend why INDYCAR alternates positions 13 thru 26 based off of which qualifying group you came out of.
Sure it does; critiquing an idea is a discussion.
But you are not agreeing with him.
Seems to me that most of those who disagree dont like it because its just silly
I see a pattern here.
A solid five pages worth.
And hardly worth more than a quick "no". When spitballing ideas, which can be good, some ideas merit further discussion while others really don't. Since qualifying is part of racing, this falls in the latter.
And doesn't my idea make it less confusing? The starting spots for all races are selected before the first green flag is thrown. What's confusing about that? Ernest
Critiquing yes. Just saying something is silly or ridiculous adds zero. Ernest
Qualifying has changed immensely starting with the inane 25/8 rule almost 15 years ago. We now have the "quick six". Qualifying today in IndyCar resembles nothing I grew up with. Since we are not going to put the genie back in the bottle, my idea takes care of it altogether. And if you thought my idea merited nothing but a quick no, why do you continually come back to it? Ernest
How come I'm not surprised you attempt to compare stick 'n ball sports to auto racing?
Here is the difference between the NBA & F1:
Do you NEED a car this fast...? NO, but do you WANT a car this fast?? YES!!! -Tom Hnatiw
Race CARS Not DOGS!!! Adopt or foster a retired greyhound -Me
great idea
...and let's just draw the winner's name out of a hat too
People are feeding the troll (hey I'm guilty too, but the Yao/Lewis image was so perfect for this topic...)
Ernesto likes attention... ignore him & he's off to a PGA message board or a fan-boy NBA Thunder playoff thread.
I understand what Ernest is trying to do here. I agree there is a problem when your fastest teams always start first, but this isn't new to auto racing. I also get Ernest's comparison with other pro sports in that if the Yankees or Patriots always got first pick in the draft or home field advantage, it would distance them even more than the rest of the field.
To me, Doc's idea is great. It's a simple solution which would create great racing and even out the field substantially. It's the same concept as the draft in all 4 major pro leagues (NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA), which makes it that much more difficult for great teams to stay on top year after year (maybe except for MLB where the lack of a salary cap and free agency causes wealthy teams to constantly be on top). I think Indycar should give this concept a serious consideration.
True. The series would have to figure out a way to compensate for the excitement and entertainment value of qualifying the day prior to a race. Maybe give out extra points for testing session speeds?
Arrowz, Yes it is a mistake to compare stick and ball sports to IndyCar. For you see, stick and ball sports have millions of fans and excellent television ratings. We who love AOWR are dinosaurs who are slowly dying out. Thats the simple truth. And unlike others, I'm trying to think of ways to regenerate the excitement. The NFL draft is coming up and millions of football fans will be watching. What is wrong with taking ideas from sucessful sports and trying in some way to implement them into ours? Not only would the draft concept work, it evens the playing field for great drivers like Justin Wilson who through no fault of their own are mired mid pack each and every week. I for one found it extremely exciting to watch Justin rocket away from the field the first third of the race. With my concept, you give good drivers with weak teams a chance to shine. Its fair. And in closing, you might want to come up with a new definition of a troll such as mine, "A poster who comes to a thread, adds no new ideas and comes just to insult the person who started the thread. And then continues to come back day after day." Regards, Ernest
If nothing else, they can try it for one race like they did the Texas lottery. Of course, that was bogus and unfair, but inverting the start on points isn't. I figure if you are the defending champion of the series you can spot everyone at the opener, especially since the second place guy will be right alongside of you and almost suffering the same penalty.
I also figure the last place guy from the year before could sure use a break.
Short tracks use an inverted start all the time. When I was karting, local events drew for the first heat, invert the finishing order for the second, and then line up by event points for the third. Any ties in points would be broken by who signed up first.
Of course, there was the time I "lost" a race like that to Geroge Hall. We were jawing it up standing in line that morning, waiting to sign up and never dreaming what we were getting ourselves into. It was a weird event with people crashing, blowing up, etc. At the end George and I each had a win, a second and a zero, which was unbelievably enough to win.
George signed up just before me, so he was the winner. Of course, this wasn't good enough for George. He knew I would ride him forever that the only way he could "beat" me was by getting in line sooner, so he insisted we go head to head in a match race. This was good enough for me because I loved banging wheels with George, and of course everyone else loved it because George and I usually leaned on each other like we actually weren't friends.
In the end we made three laps until George blew a tire rubbing it on my frame, and we both crashed out pretty heavily. I'm still not sure how the winner was resolved because George and I picked ourselves up and headed out to Diamond Dolls right afterwards.
Paragraphs & the space bar are your friend Ernesto
My local McDonalds sells a helluva lot more hamburgers than the quality steakhouses/restaurants in the same general area. Even the McNasty's clown wouldn't claim that the Golden Arches have the best 'burgers in the area. I'm not the only one telling you that your concept is seriously flawed. Apples & oranges... hell more like apples & watermelons!!!
IIRC, Justin Wilson battled for the lead @LBGP. Nice to know you consider battling for P1 "mid-pack".
No, trolls toss out complete nonsense & argue the most bizarre details. You throw opinions out as fact & almost NEVER concede anything... you IMO, are always arguing with yourself.
ESPN will have a 3 hour NFL Schedule show tonightI would rather encourage my dog to have the trots on a white carpet than listen to more than 20 minutes of a 3 hour schedule show!!!
The same NFL slappies will ignore their family to watch the NFL draft. Back in my youthful days the HS band geeks, along with the D&D nerds were just hammered by the "cool" kids that mocked their hobby. IMO, fantasy baseball guys, "fans" watching the NFL draft & the numerous 360 day coverage of football shows are 100 times WORSE than those previously mentioned geeks & nerds. Motorsport has never been a "mainstream" sport in the USA & your gimmicks would only alienate the existing, loyal base that does exist or is being cultivated.
I'de put a gun in my mouth if every toothless (we can't say ******* anymore?) billybob in Pinellas Park wore an ICS hat.
Unless, of course, the something really is silly and/or ridiculous. In which case that is the critique and it is spot on.
Some "ideas" are so ill-conceived that they are, on their face, without merit and therefore do not warrant further discussion or analysis. This is one of those ideas.
Spike
I do believe I grasp what you are sayin' Doc. Yes, the NASCAR bubbas that proudly shaves the #3 into his back hair have $$$ that can be spent at any ICS event, but I'd rather not have to explain them as "fans" of our sport!
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