But the fastest qualifiers get preferred lane choice, hence a theoretical advantage over the field which is why they try to set fast times in qualifying heats.Originally Posted by Ernest Miller
And as others have stated, if a team wants to start higher up on the grid they should do better in qualifying. This is auto racing, not summer camp.
The Ayn Rand of Indycar
No one had to badge the Offy.
Don't you think you should figure out who was going against the stronger wind, who had to make the most outside passes, who made the most pit stops, who moved back and forth the most when warming their tires up, etc. before we award Scott the 1992 trophy? Ernest
And they are all wearing skimpy little outfits (that aren't the least bit fire-resistant) and competing without helmets. Why is that?
Spike.
"The IRL's future should be good, but it can't be the grass-roots series Tony George envisioned. That was a wet dream." - Bobby Unser
No, of course not. They were going against (and with) the same wind.
Spike.
Yeah, we know that...
"The number of threads by one poster in the OT is getting a little out of hand, IMHO. "
"In the land of freedom we are held hostage by the tyranny of political correctness...If we speak..we say it the wrong way; if we do not speak we are cowards…."
Dave, In my model, I do away with qualifying. Please go back and read that part. I don't care about qualifying and from the attendance at the first three events I don't think the average race fan cares either. They do care about the race though. I want the teams to work on race day setup and not some setup they cannot run on race day. No one gets a leg up in the race for the championship just because they are .005 seconds faster than someone else. Ernest
Sometimes that's where the talent is. Haven't you ever seen a driver who's actually very quick with outright pace but falls a part during the race?
Then you do what NASCAR does and impound the cars after qualifying so you have to start the race with the same set up with which you qualified.
Your "model" eliminates any incentive for a team to try to be good, which is the antithesis of sport. I want to see the best teams rewarded and lesser teams have to work harder. Considering how important track position is on a street course you might was as well let the bad teams pick which races they want to win, while you're at it.
Your idea is absurd. I'm sorry I even delved into this. I'm done.
Dave, While insulting my ideas, you failed to mention one idea of your own. How does my idea eliminate incentives for teams to be good? Don't they still have to get the job done on race day? Won't the best teams still be rewarded on race day? I think the Long Beach race today proved the best driver and team will win wherever you start them. In fact, the finish today disproves your notion of track position on a street course. Good thing Will Power didn't talk to you before the race or he would have thought he had no chance of winning. Also,the time spent on qualifying will be spent on race day setup. You and others should really stop and take a look at what I have proposed before scoffing at it. I'm sure the rear engine cars were met with the same disdain as I am but history showed who was right. Ernest
How is the still going? How long until Ernest gets his own little world like Gonzo?
LOL
Faster than a bullet from a gun
He is faster than everyone
Quicker than the blinking of an eye
Like a flash you could miss him going by
No one knows quite how he does it but it's true they say
He's the master of going faster. -George Harrison
This...is...interesting...Sure it would created headlines...but it's not really racing...10 points for creativity, though.
I am a fan of the IZOD IndyCar Series, Formula 1, and AMA Supercross in that respective order.
Here's my idea: the teams participating in the weekend's event show up at the track. They run time trials to see who is fastest, with fastest starting first in order to the slowest starting last. If a team or driver is penalized, it may be necessary to move him or her further back in the starting line-up after qualifications are complete. In the event there are more drivers than available spaces in the race, the slowest teams go home.
No man can cause more grief than that one clinging blindly to the vices of his ancestors. - William Faulker
Sounds like a great idea. I love it
Me too.
Sounds like a plan.
Lets try it for 100 years or so and see how it works
I got some "outside the box" thinking for you.
1. No gimmicks - No push to pass, no red or black tires, no double file restarts. Just good plain old fashioned racing.
2. Let the engineers build racecars the way they want
In the US that's pretty far outside of the box these days.
Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary… that's what gets you.
http://twitter.com/WhateverJoel
That's kinda outside of the box for anything except Le Mans
It's one thing to throw out an idea and see what people think. But you're putting this idea right up there with the rear-engine revolution, huh? Just a misunderstood genius ahead of his time. This is seriously starting to border on delusion...and that's not hyperbole.
The starting grid at LB was set due to a massive assessment of deserved penalties. Your proposal would be the equivalent of assessing undeserved penalties.
See the difference?
I posted a draft idea several years ago and it looked nothing like yours which negates qualifying which is a staple of the sport.
I proposed having pit positions becoming commodities like draft picks for each race. Because pit selection can give an advantage but it goes to the most successful of the previous event. Instead try to use it like other sports do with draft picks going in reverse order of the point standings each week like the worst record in other sports to try and balance the competition.
The car in 26th place gets first choice in pit selection and the points leader gets 26th. But these selections can be sold, traded or bartered. If Roger Penkse wants pit #1 for Will Power at Brazil and Jay Penske has it because Katherine Legge is last in points (if she is) they can make a deal. I don't know what would be considered a value, it would depend on the owners involved. Would that choice be worth a new nose or bumper for the car, a set of wheels, $5,000, it would be whatever two owners were willing to agree on.
What this would do that doesn't exist now is provide the teams lower in the standing some commodity of value to the higher teams that they could use to trade and in turn benefit their team.
In other sports teams trade that first round pick for three veteran players or they sell the second round pick for cash. Indycar teams would be able to use their pit picks to add something to their team which may help them move up.
"You can't arrest those guys, they're folk heroes"
"They're criminals"
"Well most folk heroes started out as criminals"
Brilliant!
PP, In my model, no one is getting penalized. How can you be penalized when you know beforehand where you are going to start the race? There is no qualifying. I repeat, there is no qualifying. Teams work on race day setups all weekend and then go out and race. The quickest to the finish line still wins. You and a host of others are stuck on the notion that drivers are being penalized when in fact they are not. Long Beach proved beyond a shadow of a doubt my concept works and leads to good racing. Ernest
First of all, I want to thank you for adding something constructive to the discussion. It is amazing how many posters can add only insults while coming up with zero ideas of their own. I like your ideas very much and they certainly fit into my new model as well. That is exactly what I had in mind for teams and drivers making trades.
But where we disagree of course is on the qualifying. The Indy 500 is the only race I want to keep where the drivers line up due to speeds. But I think you will agree that the qualifying for IndyCars has changed so much the past several years it is off little resemblance to what it once was.
The race is whats important to me, not who wins the 10k the day before. Thanks again for your post. Ernest
Doc, Doc, Doc!
"Is that my *** that I smell burning?" ... Helmet Stogie from "Death spasms of the Mabuchi"
Bork bork bork!!!
#Throws a fish at Doc
Regards, Hurley. Doc.
I didn't say anyone was being penalized, I said your proposal is the equivalent of a penalty - a small, yet complete difference.
Not qualifying for a race is the out-of-the-box idea that you are floating. Random assignment of starting spots is the result. As someone else mentioned, a close cousin to your suggestion was tried for the second half of the Texas 172s last year and it was soundly rejected by most everybody involved.
Not dissing you, Ernest, just pointing out that something very, very similar has been tried before with less than favorable results.
It doesn't have to be so complicated.
Want to shake things up? Just invert the start based on points. The rules would be the same every time, it would be the same for everyone, and there would be no element of chance. The fast guys would just about always be in the back.
Of course you would have to make adjustments for people who didn't start all the races, like have them line up behind the full season entrants, but outside of that it doesn't have to be complicated.
And from the business side of the series, Ernest, eliminating qualifying reduces the value of the event to the promoter who is selling merchandising and other vendor permits because that is one less thing that brings some fans to the track.
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