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Thread: Its Time For Out Of The Box Thinking And Here It Is

  1. #241
    aka cart7 Indyknut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest Miller View Post
    The lottery is a more fair way to crown a driving champion. What part of that don't you get?
    Fair way? The season driving champion is the driver who placed best overall in most of the races. He/She did it by being a better driver than the others along with being prepared better for each race. He/She is also working well with their team and the team is also performing at a higher level than the others. Qualifying for a race is just one step in the entire process of finding who that driver/team is. Hell, why don't you just suggest spotting lesser teams and drivers points at the beginning of the season? Last years worst team/driver gets the most with the points descending as you move upwards to the previous years champion.

    If qualifying went away, who would notice but the hardcore fans? You yourself stated potential fans don't care who is at front.
    You don't have much more than hardcore fans watching anymore. I'm pretty certain creating a lottery qualifying system you're suggesting will just drive quite a few of them away. And for what? You have yet to show how a lottery qualifying system would cause anyone who's not watching the series to suddenly want to start watching. I mean why? Exactly what is it about this lottery system for qualifying that's going to suddenly cause potential fans to start watching the series? Just how many new fans would you gain vs. all the fans you have now leaving because of the new system? Sorry, I just don't see anything compelling enough about that system that would cause a new surge in viewership nor at track attendance.

    Don't the fastest cars usually find a way to the front anyway?
    If the series was primarily running ovals, yes. On a typical oval, if you inverted the grid every race I'd say the positions would be re-inverted by around lap 20 in each race. Road and street courses, with far fewer passing opportunities, no. In fact, I'd suggest you'd be setting yourself up for a lot of crushed carbon fiber each race and those typically slower drivers, now at the front of the track due to your lottery system, create a massive traffic jam. It's going to be a mess and some of those faster drivers at the rear are going to get taken out due to mental miscues and mistakes made either by themselves or others as they try and move themselves up. Not exactly a "fair" way to judge a series champion IMO.

    You said the series needs something interesting to watch yet I just gave you something and you trashed it.
    I don't see anything interesting about it other than a greater number of crashes on the road and street circuits, not that that's a good thing. At best, the NFL gives the worst teams from the season before first dibs in the next season draft but that's hardly assuring them to be any better than they were the previous season. I also don't see what's fair about this system. As I stated, on an oval it wouldn't be such an issue, a road or street course though......
    BTW, you're responses continue to be geared towards the incorrect notion that just about any driver could be the season champ if they were just in the right car driving for the right team. That there is very little talent involved. I'd like to say you're way off the mark. Sam Hornish or the late Dan Wheldon was wheels on fire on the ovals but put either on a street or road course and the guys performed average at best. Justin Wilson or Will power, just the opposite. Some drivers are barely average on either. Talent and abilities are what supposed to determine the season champ. That extends into the team since they are racing "cars". There's usually reasons why drivers wind up in the A team cars. If money isn't an issue and owners can hire drivers on talent they will. That extends down the line to the lower rank teams. If lower rank teams want to win more they need to move themselves up to reach the levels of those A teams. Spotting them positions on the track at each race creates no motivation for them to do that.

    And of course you offer no new suggestion of your own. Ernest
    But I have. I've been making these same suggestions for a couple years now. Apparently either the league saw them or came to the same conclusion because there's going to be a new, Indy car based reality show on Versus coming up.

    http://www.trackforum.com/forums/sho...=1#post2984865

    Last edited by Indyknut; 04-23-2012 at 10:27 AM.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indyknut View Post
    Fair way? The season driving champion is the driver who placed best overall in most of the races. He/She did it by being a better driver than the others along with being prepared better for each race. He/She is also working well with their team and the team is also performing at a higher level than the others. Qualifying for a race is just one step in the entire process of finding who that driver/team is. Hell, why don't you just suggest spotting lesser teams and drivers points at the beginning of the season? Last years worst team/driver gets the most with the points descending as you move upwards to the previous years champion.

    I didn't suggest it because it wouldn't be fair. Is this what your suggesting we do?


    You don't have much more than hardcore fans watching anymore. I'm pretty certain creating a lottery qualifying system you're suggesting will just drive quite a few of them away. And for what? You have yet to show how a lottery qualifying system would cause anyone who's not watching the series to suddenly want to start watching. I mean why? Exactly what is it about this lottery system for qualifying that's going to suddenly cause potential fans to start watching the series? Just how many new fans would you gain vs. all the fans you have now leaving because of the new system? Sorry, I just don't see anything compelling enough about that system that would cause a new surge in viewership nor at track attendance.

    OK, fine. Do you have any ideas to share or are you happy with the status quo and the exodus of fans from the series the past fifteen years?



    If the series was primarily running ovals, yes. On a typical oval, if you inverted the grid every race I'd say the positions would be re-inverted by around lap 20 in each race. Road and street courses, with far fewer passing opportunities, no. In fact, I'd suggest you'd be setting yourself up for a lot of crushed carbon fiber each race and those typically slower drivers, now at the front of the track due to your lottery system, create a massive traffic jam. It's going to be a mess and some of those faster drivers at the rear are going to get taken out due to mental miscues and mistakes made either by themselves or others as they try and move themselves up. Not exactly a "fair" way to judge a series champion IMO.

    Again, do you want to invert the field? Thats not fair to me. You really are penalizing the best teams doing it that way. Are you suggesting the league do this? And the crushed carbon fiber? The series champion was involved in a first corner incident last race and a three time Indy 500 winner caused a last lap mess. Are these the drivers you are worried about? No driver is immune from being in an incident.

    I don't see anything interesting about it other than a greater number of crashes on the road and street circuits, not that that's a good thing. At best, the NFL gives the worst teams from the season before first dibs in the next season draft but that's hardly assuring them to be any better than they were the previous season. I also don't see what's fair about this system. As I stated, on an oval it wouldn't be such an issue, a road or street course though......
    BTW, you're responses continue to be geared towards the incorrect notion that just about any driver could be the season champ if they were just in the right car driving for the right team. That there is very little talent involved.

    Point out where I ever said this. You can't because I didn't.


    I'd like to say you're way off the mark. Sam Hornish or the late Dan Wheldon was wheels on fire on the ovals but put either on a street or road course and the guys performed average at best. Justin Wilson or Will power, just the opposite. Some drivers are barely average on either. Talent and abilities are what supposed to determine the season champ. That extends into the team since they are racing "cars". There's usually reasons why drivers wind up in the A team cars.

    Yeah, its called sponsorship money.


    If money isn't an issue and owners can hire drivers on talent they will. That extends down the line to the lower rank teams. If lower rank teams want to win more they need to move themselves up to reach the levels of those A teams. Spotting them positions on the track at each race creates no motivation for them to do that.

    Once again, I have never suggested that at all. My idea gives all the drivers an equal chance. It doesn't favor anyone. No one gets spotted anything. You seem to be thinking of your idea and confusing it with mine.



    But I have. I've been making these same suggestions for a couple years now. Apparently either the league saw them or came to the same conclusion because there's going to be a new, Indy car based reality show on Versus coming up.

    http://www.trackforum.com/forums/sho...=1#post2984865

    Who did you recommend to play Snookie and the Situation in the Indy "reality" series?

    Ernest

  3. #243
    aka cart7 Indyknut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest Miller View Post
    Who did you recommend to play Snookie and the Situation in the Indy "reality" series?

    Ernest
    You just don't get it Ernest.

    The more you "gimmick" up the actual racing itself, the more current fans of racing you pizz off and send packing somewhere else.

    The IRL had all ovals with 70+% Americans winning each week and it didn't grow.
    CCWS had street carnivals and it failed.

    Standing starts
    2 wide restarts
    Limited numbers of good compound tires you can use in a race
    Push to Pass
    Competition yellows
    I'm sure I'm missing some

    Even Indy has messed with it's qualifying system in order to generate interest.
    Nothing has worked.

    Typical race fans out there are aware of Indycar racing but they're not tuning in for whatever reason. If you continue to tinker with the actual racing itself, you risk losing the fans you have now with zero guarantee you'll generate new fans to replace them. NASCAR has found that out. It's now time to generate interest and viewership from non-typical sources. The reality shows don't involve messing with the racing itself. As I stated, the shows themselves can be used as a tool to teach new fans about the sport and get them to tune in or attend races in order to see the personalities they see on the show perform LIVE in a race. Will it work?

    It can't do any worse than what's been done up to this point and it doesn't risk turning Indycar racing into a gimmick filled sporting event done for no reason other than a vain attempt to keep itself alive.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indyknut View Post
    You just don't get it Ernest.

    The more you "gimmick" up the actual racing itself, the more current fans of racing you pizz off and send packing somewhere else.

    The IRL had all ovals with 70+% Americans winning each week and it didn't grow.
    CCWS had street carnivals and it failed.

    Standing starts
    2 wide restarts
    Limited numbers of good compound tires you can use in a race
    Push to Pass
    Competition yellows
    I'm sure I'm missing some

    Even Indy has messed with it's qualifying system in order to generate interest.
    Nothing has worked.

    Typical race fans out there are aware of Indycar racing but they're not tuning in for whatever reason. If you continue to tinker with the actual racing itself, you risk losing the fans you have now with zero guarantee you'll generate new fans to replace them. NASCAR has found that out. It's now time to generate interest and viewership from non-typical sources. The reality shows don't involve messing with the racing itself. As I stated, the shows themselves can be used as a tool to teach new fans about the sport and get them to tune in or attend races in order to see the personalities they see on the show perform LIVE in a race. Will it work?

    It can't do any worse than what's been done up to this point and it doesn't risk turning Indycar racing into a gimmick filled sporting event done for no reason other than a vain attempt to keep itself alive.
    You just don't get it do you Indyknut. How can my draft lottery affect a race before the green flag is ever thrown? Did Will Power's 10 spot penalty keep him from winning at Long Beach? And there is no way the hardcore fans are going anywhere. If that was true, people like myself would have been gone a long time ago. You wanting to put IndyCar drivers and teams in the same light as Jersey Shore and Mob Wives is a gimmick. Worst suggestion ever. Ernest

  5. #245
    aka cart7 Indyknut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest Miller View Post
    You just don't get it do you Indyknut. How can my draft lottery affect a race before the green flag is ever thrown? Did Will Power's 10 spot penalty keep him from winning at Long Beach? And there is no way the hardcore fans are going anywhere. If that was true, people like myself would have been gone a long time ago. You wanting to put IndyCar drivers and teams in the same light as Jersey Shore and Mob Wives is a gimmick. Worst suggestion ever. Ernest
    Everybody, hardcore fans included, has a breaking point Ernest. Just look at the responses in this thread.

    I'm asking again. What is it about this lottery qualifying system that is going to compel anyone to want to watch ICS racing that isn't watching it already?

    BTW, ICS would probably love to have the ratings a Jersey Shore, Deadliest Catch or Storage Wars has.

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