"Far better it is to dare mighty things, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat" -Teddy Roosevelt
Nearly 60,000 came each day? Yeah. These three day numbers are completely and udder BS. They were in CC and they are now in IC. CART? A little bit of a different story, thats the sanction body that actually pulled the numbers they published.
I always got a good laugh at local papers claiming the city brought in $40-60 million in revenue from hotels, airfare and restaurants when the hotels closest to the track we're nearly vacant.
Its all a load, and we all know it.
However, how does any of this matter in context of the 2012 Toyota Grand Prix of Long Beach? Who knows what the real weekend total was but I can tell you this, everybody that was actually at the race on Saturday and Sunday said that the place was packed.
Adam Carolla spent several minutes of his podcast today talking about the celebrity race and he said the crowd was huge and thought it was 65,000. His co-hosts also commented from the videos he was showing them that the crowd looked huge.
Again who knows what the real number is but only on TrackForum do people ***** and moan about the attendance numbers of a race that was packed with fans.
**** This Sport
Prime Minister of Gackland
As for Indy, why are people in this thread constantly comparing the attendance of street races to Indy? I don't get the purpose of always using the Indy trump-card when berating the attendance of other races.
It's common knowledge that Indy is the single largest single day crowd for any sporting event......so quit trying to act like you are informing people of this when they already know. Indeed Indy doesn't have to manipulate it's attendance numbers like other races do, but you and I both know that it's not just street races that fudge or manipulate their numbers. The other ovals do it too.
If by constantly propping up Indy's attendance as a means of proving that Indy is the best race......well again no S*** Sherlock........everybody already knows this as it's by far the biggest event in the sport.
If by constantly propping up Indy's attendance as a means to prove that ovals draw better than street courses..............well get back to me when the Kentucky's, Fontana's, Iowa's, Milwaukee's, Chicago's, Homestead's, Kansas', New Hampshire's, Michigan's, and Las Vegas' of the world start outdrawing Long Beach.
Oh that's right, several of the above races are off the schedule because they didn't draw enough people.
Bottom line is that Mr. Gack and all of the other disgruntled IRL "all oval enthusiasts" can sit in this forum and **** and moan all they want about how much Long Beach sucks but just as it has for the last 30+ years the event will go on again next year, once again it will draw a big crowd, once again it will create some buzz in the LA market, and once again you guys will complain.
Looking forward to all of it except the last part...
How come this same discussion isn't brought up when Texas is 'estimated' at 75K people. Or how about Iowa's 30K packed seats? There were more people lining the fences at Long Beach on Saturday than we'll see at Iowa.
The title for this thread should be corrected to say "170k+ Attended Long Beach Grand Prix week end"
With five other races run along with qualifying for those series, concerts, midway setup etc, It really is naive to think that the Indycar series was the main draw. It seemed to me that there was just as big of a crowd for the LeMans series as was for Sunday's second race.
Smells like when we were led to believe how cart was the main race for surfer's.
I still don't understand the need for guys like you and Gack and whatever disgruntled "all oval" fans are in this thread to try and attack the attendance of Long Beach or the importance of IndyCar's to the event. If you want to pick on a street course, go pick on one of the newer ones that struggles to draw fans and loses money. To criticize a long-standing successful event like Long Beach just makes you guys look foolish and bitter.
Formula cars have been racing at Long Beach for 38 years and CART started racing there in 1984.............that's many years of success and obviously they are doing something right or the race would have folded years ago. Actually as screwed up as California is in general (I know because I live here), Long Beach is one of the few examples of how a local government has been able to make a "city event" work and actually make money (instead of losing money like they usually do)
The thing that really bugs me about this forum is that there are so many close-minded mid-westerners that just assume everybody else across the country thinks exactly like they do. Hate to break it to you guys but what floats in Indiana ain't necessarily what people are into in other states. Guys like Gack figure that since they only care about "murricans and ovals" therefore everybody else across America and the IndyCar fan-base must only want the same thing.
As a result we end up with posts where a dude (like you Mr. Wilbur Shaw) is actually trying to say that IndyCar's are not a big draw at Long Beach. As if it's impossible for people in California to actually enjoy IndyCar's at something other than an oval. How would you know Wilbur? You don't live here, so how would you know what fans from California are into? Has it ever occurred to you that the fans that visit the Long Beach Grand Prix might actually like Indy Car and that's why they keep coming back every year?
I don't even know why I'm asking because I pretty much know the answer whether you will admit it or not.......
I live in the Midwest. I like ovals. I hate street courses. I really hate street races in California. I really hate that a street race in California draws well and I cannot make sense of it therefore I'll just bash it without merit.
Funny who I wind up agreeing with nowadays...
Q: The Stanley Cup was recently on tour through my town and I kissed it, is there any chance I mite catch listeria?
A: NO you are safe, the cup hasn't touched any Maple Leaf products in 40 years
PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals
Good walking shoes, back pack full of pops, with the race on radio is the only way.
Swaze, just for the record , John Gaughan (aka "Railbird") was the biggest booster of the LBGP I ever knew, and he was a Hoosier. The LBGP was his last race, if I recall correctly.
Chris Paff, however, is from Baltimore
Not sure about Gack's and Shaw's geography, but I would guess there's a lot more street-racing IndyCar fans per capita in Indiana than most states. And at least a few who are pragmatically tolerant ( me ), if not totally enthusiastic - like indyracefan
"Each day well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness and every tomorrow a vision of hope. Look well therefore to this one day for it, and it alone, is life"
~ Sanskrit poem attributed to Kalidasa, "Salutation to the Dawn"
I went Saturday. Very crowded everywhere, including the Life Expo thing-ee in the Convention Center. People were trashed. It was one big Snake Pit. The racing was background noise. But there is no denying the event was a big success.
Top Fuel Wormhole
Whether they are actually from the Midwest or not doesn't really seem to matter, it's the small-minded mentality that everyone needs to think like a mid-western dirt track/short oval fan and anything other than that they just don't accept or understand.
For the record I'm not a major proponent of street races either (I think there are 1 or 2 too many on the current schedule). We need more ovals and natural terrain road courses on the schedule. My favorite IndyCar track of all time is Michigan and Indy and Milwaukee are also in my Top-5 along with Road America and Cleveland. I'd much rather be watching an exiting oval race in Michigan this summer than watching a boring race at Sonoma or Bel-Isle.
Long Beach isn't my favorite race or even in my Top-5 but it's an extremely important even to the series/sponsors as it's in a key market and it actually draws a large crowd and generates "buzz". For anybody to try and degrade the attendance or success of Long Beach when it has been doing well and drawing good crowds for so long is just asinine. When there are so many other raves on the schedule with attendance and/or money problems it really boggles the mind that people would have a problem with Long Beach.
I am a fan of the IZOD IndyCar Series, Formula 1, and AMA Supercross in that respective order.
The grandstands are SOOO much smaller than they were in the mid 90's when there about 70,000+ for race day. As stated above, many stands have been removed. Most of the grand stands are about 60% of what they used to be.
But still a good crowd.
Attendance threads. The TF equivalent of trying to remove a hemorrhoid with a pair of pliers.
I don't see how the supposed 170K can be counted entirely as IndyCar attendance, as the main event on Saturday is an ALMS race. If that is the case, the "2-day attendance" at Texas(including the Truck race) is 140-150,000.
Slightly OT but was there any cross promotion with Fontana seen?
I'd rather have 10% of the world interested in the ICS than 50% of US that NASCAR currently has
There aren't beer gardens and ferris wheels at Fontana, are there?
I don't think there is much "cross-over" between the folks who attend the Long Beach Weekend Party and the Fontana races (either NASCAR or Indy Car). Two completely different groups of folk.
Yes we might be "closed-minded". Because AOW belongs to us. Always has. Always will. NASCAR belongs to the Southeast. They probably get pretty "closed-minded" about their form of racing too when its attacked and butchered by outsiders.
2. You seen the ratings lately, Swaze? Maybe if we actually adhered to a philosophy and a true "vision", we wouldn't be sucking wind right now in this country. Our "fanbase" is so small and many have vanished and moved on to other forms of racing, as we have transformed the sport into some hybrid F1 knockoff/sports car/early 90's CART series, that in reality appeals to very few folks. Very few folks here in Indiana. Very few folks in Cali either. At this point, we really don't know what the American consumer wants from a racing series. We know what they don't want. And that's what the ICS is giving us.
3. No, it doesn't occur to me. If any of those folks actually watched another Indy Car race the rest of the year, your point might stand. Judging by how few folks went to watch Indy Cars at Fontana and how puny the TV audience is from the LA market, I'd say I be right. Its a traditional party, where you can go and have a good time and get drunk and do a bunch of other things besides watch the actual race. Its kinda like the infield at Indy used to be. There weren't many race fans there either. But they still came to party every year.
If Long Beach went away tomorrow and was replaced with a natural terrain road course a few miles down the road, what would the attendance be? Would all of those rabid Indy Car fans you think exist, go if it wasn't a part of the LBC festival? Hopefully for our case, they would. I seriously doubt it though.
Long Beach is a nice event. Not close to what is used to be, but still a vibrant event. But is it that important to the overall health of the sport? Not really. Just another event, that doesn't draw on TV and usually exhibits a product that in no way links it with the speed and danger and excitement of the heritage of Indy Car Racing and its signature race.